Hanging Ceiling Clouds as close as possible to the ceiling

[BroKen_H]

Sometimes I wish we had the resources to try some of this stuff. It would be interesting to have a room of the dimensions stated, and try the different techniques of reducing bass, primary reflections and flutter. See what actually works best, and what is total BS. In a large room, there are pretty well defined standards, but when you're dealing with a short room or a small (1200 cu ft or smaller) room, the techniques seem to get a little fuzzy. I did a lot of research for my room (1000 cu'), and it sounds really good at this point, but I had to put up 22 2x2 panels + 2 2x4 ceiling clouds @ 4" from the ceiling + floor to ceiling bass trapping in two corners and 4" units over the doors + (Oh no, don't say it ) an absorptive curtain over the big windows. I'm still considering a diffuser on the back wall to tame some 1200-3000Hz issues.
Semi-pro studio locally, has a drum room treated with nothing but diamond foam... ... and a 8x6' plate glass window behind the drums ... ...and they charge $125 an hour. Must be something to breaking all the rules..?

 

[Chili]

My 4'x4' clouds hang from 600 lb test loops of monofilament fishing leader material. If it can stop a shark, it can hold up a stupid acoustic panel.....and they've been hanging for years and years without a single problem.

I said the same thing in post #4 except mine is more like 6lb test and I skipped the shark bit.

 

[Rod Norman]

Thanks for adding that piece of information on frequencies vis a vis absorbation. As I had said, placing what were intended to be "clouds" directly on the ceiling would severely reduce their effectiveness but primarily in the low frequencies. The draped porous soft fabric like a fleece or felt would reduce reverberations in the room if that was the OP's problem. Those reverberations occur in the frequency range you attributed to the draped fabric. Even if he could only run them with the drape of one inch, the fabric stops the reverb almost completely. When attempting to recording in a non-studio environment all engineers use the hand clap test to see how much room reverb is present. We found the drape stopped it almost completely.. Most studios do place those panels in a staggered formation on the walls so that's what I suggested he do. Now, to the flaming about my advice. I saw many people giving the OP really good advice on how to hang them, so I saw no reason to repeat their advice. Mine was only an option should he find he could not do what he wanted because of the 7' ceiling height. Of course, if people don't like my advice, they are free to ignore it. Since I have recorded in everything from living rooms to stadiums, everything in between, and in Power Station in NYC as well as all the other studios and some on the west Coast; worked in mastering studios with great engineers, I thought my additional tip would be helpful. It appears that flaming comments has become the norm though since five of the newbies now communicate with me by email because of the treatment they got for their questions. One of the moderator took issue with my advice to the level that he added that unfortunate signature. I have been advised by Chili on how to remove that. I am constantly working so I rarely reply to comments on my answers. I will try to do better at that, but honestly, I will ignore the flamers. Thanks again. Any advice is good advice if it works.

Rod I'd like to point out.. ( at least for the point I was trying to bring to this- It is the difference in depths and density of the materials- that make up the bulk of their absorption qualities. 'Snugging them up to the wall' (ceiling in this case) doesn't diminish' either per say. But an air gap behind a porous absorber does is extend the bandwidth down some.

So if we're in this situation we have four or five or so inches to play with. The 'typical' 3" fiber pad starts off working down to what, a few hundred Hz (depending on the mounting?)
A 'fabric'- down to a few thousand Hz -regardless of the mounting perhaps?

 

[Rod Norman]

Pretty was never the desired end result. And if putting anything up caused spiders to start crawling than every studio would be crawling with spiders. And the operational word in your reply is the word "worked" It worked for a reason. And if it worked in the sixties, that doesn't mean it will stop working now. And the walls start melting? Really? Now, to my signature line. One moderator has been flaming me and he set that signature. Other moderators explained how to remove it. I never looked to see if I even had a signature since taking time out to answer questions was all I was doing. I didn't question other people's advice, I just read to see if anything might be left out and added that in as an option. As for the line: obviously bad advice...hm. You negated that when you said it worked in the 60's. If you don't like my advice or answers, give your own. No one is criticizing you, all we are all doing is trying to help people starting out. I'm no different. And none of my advice cannot be found in any of the mixing and recording magazines or in the tutorials on youtube. But in the end, I'm glad I gave you a laugh.
Rod Norman
Engineer

Ooooh, pretty! As long as the spiders don't start crawling out (or the walls start melting)!
Hasn't anyone besides me noticed Rod's signature line? It's changed again...he always makes me laugh, but I suppose people with no actual experience might be confused by his obviously bad advice.

 

[Rod Norman]

A very thoughtful reply to a real problem most home recording studio face. Everything you added would do a lot to squash the problems but you practically turned your room into a professional studio. You mentioned covering the windows. I always worried about ventilation until I read a science article on how long it takes to turn air in an enclosed space devoid of the necessary oxygen. That ended my worries. I studied Phil Rubin's techniques when he recorded Johnny Cash in his living room and a lot of my worries disappeared. But Johnny had a huge living room with lots of upholstered furniture. Small rooms are just a beast. Good stuff overall.

Sometimes I wish we had the resources to try some of this stuff. It would be interesting to have a room of the dimensions stated, and try the different techniques of reducing bass, primary reflections and flutter. See what actually works best, and what is total BS. In a large room, there are pretty well defined standards, but when you're dealing with a short room or a small (1200 cu ft or smaller) room, the techniques seem to get a little fuzzy. I did a lot of research for my room (1000 cu'), and it sounds really good at this point, but I had to put up 22 2x2 panels + 2 2x4 ceiling clouds @ 4" from the ceiling + floor to ceiling bass trapping in two corners and 4" units over the doors + (Oh no, don't say it ) an absorptive curtain over the big windows. I'm still considering a diffuser on the back wall to tame some 1200-3000Hz issues.
Semi-pro studio locally, has a drum room treated with nothing but diamond foam... ... and a 8x6' plate glass window behind the drums ... ...and they charge $125 an hour. Must be something to breaking all the rules..?

 

[Greg_L]

Fraud ^^^^^^^

 

[witzendoz]

Fraud ^^^^^^^

Come on Greg, if Rod wasn't around we would have no entertainment to go with the and

Alan.

 

[Greg_L]

Come on Greg, if Rod wasn't around we would have no entertainment to go with the and

Alan.

He's a fraud, gives bad troll advice, and there are plenty of other idiots to point and laugh at in here.

This site has a serious repeat offender troll problem, and they can't stop it.

 

[witzendoz]

He's a fraud, gives bad troll advice, and there are plenty of other idiots to point and laugh at in here.

This site has a serious repeat offender troll problem, and they can't stop it.

My post was very tongue in cheek. I can't believe the amount of bad information he is giving out. If in fact he is a he?

Alan.