Hanging Ceiling Clouds as close as possible to the ceiling
- Thread starter RecordingMaster
- Start date
mjbphotos
Moderator
Jimmys69 already disputed your post, but if you had read the OP's original post you would have seen that he has a low ceiling to start with and it was necessary to hang as close to the ceiling as possible.
RecordingMaster
A Sarcastic Statement
I am glad I'm not the only one who thought that was the weirdest f#cking advise in the world! Reminds me of my friend who thinks closed cell foam is useful at absorbing low frequencies and that "gutter stuffers" would act as good bass absorbers in the corner because he did the math and "it's all physics, screw what you read online".
RecordingMaster
A Sarcastic Statement
Not to mention it's the damn title, haha!
RecordingMaster
A Sarcastic Statement
Thanks for the sexy application photo! I was worried those would be flimsy, but alas I guess my panels aren't all too heavy. Just lightweight wood frame with 2" of OC703 and fabric.
I did, however, end up going to Home Depot (of course) and grabbed some more medium-sized eye hooks for the ceiling as well as zip ties and anchors. I tested the eye bolt in the anchor at the store (yes I'm a jack*ss who opens packaging but i don't steal anything lol) and even though the threads aren't super long on the eye bolt, they still opened up the anchor before the eye bolt was all the way into the anchor, which is all that really matters. It's thicker firecode drywall (thanks for the advice John H. Brandt) so the anchor will do even better in this stuff than regular drywall I'd assume (more dense = more resistance/grip for anchor).
Haven't hung them yet, but if I come down in the morning after hanging and they are still hanging, I think we are all safe for another day!
I will post the results with pics in my detailed studio build thread.
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RecordingMaster
A Sarcastic Statement
It's funny, I was AT home depot when i viewed your attachments, standing right in front of those things! Oh technology. Yeah, neat idea, but they would have added too much unnecessary height.
Wow, I’m feelin the need’ brothers! To join! in.
"..and in particularly they said. !Drums!- Ohh Thine Over Heads! - They Be in The Highest!!
And Your ceilings! They be in the closest! Therefore Of The Most Evile! of ahh'llah the hard reflections!
Yea! Kill! them!
I used light chain -hung around them, but that was so I could also adjust them down to do a bit of ‘angled hut’ overhead gobo/sectioning thingy depending.
But I shot for the joists in the ceiling.. Cause I was escared if someone might yank on one and take the frikin plaster out!
As you were
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RecordingMaster
A Sarcastic Statement
It's funny. Of all the mixes/recording/masters I've ever done, I've never done them with clouds overhead. This dates back to around 2002 when i started getting into ghetto recording for fun with a horribly amateur setup and I've still never done it. I knew they existed (more in recent years) and were recommended by others online, but never paid much mind to it and was never in a room where I could (was allowed) to put sh*t on the ceiling. I am excited/curious to see (hear) the difference it will make in my quality of monitoring.
Rod Norman
New member
Jimmy, First did you try the draped fabric? Second, having a ceiling height of only 7' is not an ideal room for either recording or mixing in the first place, but it seems to be what you have to work with. Third. I think I did mention that I have used the draped fabric and it works. You don't have to do it over the whole ceiling so you can leave a path for moving around. In a room with reflective surfaces, the ceiling will cause sound to reverberate. 5" drop is what I used but even a drop of an inch would help since the sound is absorbed by the fabric and not returned to the floor and walls to bounce around. The "clouds", on the other hand lose their effectiveness the closer you get them to the ceiling since they work by capturing reflections behind them. Get them too close and they stop having much effect at all. Remember acoustic tile ceilings? There was a reason they worked. They had tiny holds that captured the reflections and the substance was a sound absorbing material. You might try those if you can find a way to attach them with a flue. But like I said in my reply in the first place. clouds need space behind them to be effective and draping soft fabric (much cheaper) will make a big difference. I think your problem was you thought I would give you the answer to how to attach them. Your question showed that you didn't understand how they worked in the first place. I hope you solved your problem. There aren't many real engineers answering these questions and a lot of the information I'm seeing is ill-advised. I hope you don't think I would stop answering questions just because you don't like the answers.
Rod Norman
Engineer
Rod Norman
Engineer
jimmys69
MOODerator
Rod Norman
New member
Just because I don't think your idea will work doesn't mean I haven't answered your question. Draping leaves a lot of room for moving around if your attach in various places. The drape solution worked for me. A "cloud" is meant to be hung to allow sound to go up and behind and not return back down. If your are using sound proof panels (as it appears your Owens-Corning panels are), then you can just glue then to the ceiling (although they are really meant to be hung with a drop ceiling). We used then on the walls and I had found a large roll of 1/4" thin foam on the street on "big items" night in NYC. We strung it on the ceiling with a power stapler in the manner I mentioned and it killed all reverberation. Your real problem is low ceilings but if you attach the panels directly to the ceiling, they will dampen some frequencies but not all and they stop functioning as clouds. I've designed studios for years and the questions here are mostly about how to accomplish cheaply what we spent thousands to accomplish with isolation, floating rooms, and double doors. If my advice doesn't work for you, then ignore it. But don't discourage the few engineers who answer questions on this site. It only makes you look bad.
Rod Norman
Engineer
Rod Norman
Engineer
Rod Norman
New member
Just because I don't think your idea will work doesn't mean I haven't answered your question. Draping leaves a lot of room for moving around if your attach in various places. The drape solution worked for me. A "cloud" is meant to be hung to allow sound to go up and behind and not return back down. If your are using sound proof panels (as it appears your Owens-Corning panels are), then you can just glue then to the ceiling (although they are really meant to be hung with a drop ceiling). We used then on the walls and I had found a large roll of 1/4" thin foam on the street on "big items" night in NYC. We strung it on the ceiling with a power stapler in the manner I mentioned and it killed all reverberation. Your real problem is low ceilings but if you attach the panels directly to the ceiling, they will dampen some frequencies but not all and they stop functioning as clouds. I've designed studios for years and the questions here are mostly about how to accomplish cheaply what we spent thousands to accomplish with isolation, floating rooms, and double doors. If my advice doesn't work for you, then ignore it. But don't discourage the few engineers who answer questions on this site. It only makes you look bad.
Rod Norman
Engineer
Rod Norman
Engineer
Rod I'd like to point out.. ( at least for the point I was trying to bring to this- It is the difference in depths and density of the materials- that make up the bulk of their absorption qualities. 'Snugging them up to the wall' (ceiling in this case) doesn't diminish' either per say. But an air gap behind a porous absorber does is extend the bandwidth down some.
So if we're in this situation we have four or five or so inches to play with. The 'typical' 3" fiber pad starts off working down to what, a few hundred Hz (depending on the mounting?)
A 'fabric'- down to a few thousand Hz -regardless of the mounting perhaps?
RecordingMaster
A Sarcastic Statement
Wow, lots of different opinions! As is with ANY acoustics discussion! haha
All in all, yes I know the greater the distance, the greater your total % of absoption increases and the lower down the absorber will work, but simply put, it was not an option for my room. The ceiling are 7'2". So with this (see below) mounting I ended up doing, they have an air gap behind (well I guess it's "above") them of approx 1.5". The depth of the wood panel from is 2.5", so overall, it brought my ceiling (where panels are hung) down to 6'10", still allowing super tall folks to walk freely without banging their heads on something, haha! I'm 5'9.5" so it a non issue for me (the main body in there).
The whole theory of "clouds work by sounding going above them and down through them", was not really what i was going for. I mean, in theory, if I am trying to block flutter echoes from arriving to my ears (or the instruments mic in other parts of the room where clouds will be), I could even have something absorbent flush with the ceiling and it will still do something better than nothing. My idea was that the reflections need to travel upwards first, so this would stop a large % of that direct reflection - no need for it to travel above and around it and back through it.
I ended up doing the eye bolt into the ceiling idea (with anchors of course) and smaller eyebolts on the panels and attached with zip ties. Worked like a charm. Here are some application photos...
Click here and read post #75 for pics.
All in all, yes I know the greater the distance, the greater your total % of absoption increases and the lower down the absorber will work, but simply put, it was not an option for my room. The ceiling are 7'2". So with this (see below) mounting I ended up doing, they have an air gap behind (well I guess it's "above") them of approx 1.5". The depth of the wood panel from is 2.5", so overall, it brought my ceiling (where panels are hung) down to 6'10", still allowing super tall folks to walk freely without banging their heads on something, haha! I'm 5'9.5" so it a non issue for me (the main body in there).
The whole theory of "clouds work by sounding going above them and down through them", was not really what i was going for. I mean, in theory, if I am trying to block flutter echoes from arriving to my ears (or the instruments mic in other parts of the room where clouds will be), I could even have something absorbent flush with the ceiling and it will still do something better than nothing. My idea was that the reflections need to travel upwards first, so this would stop a large % of that direct reflection - no need for it to travel above and around it and back through it.
I ended up doing the eye bolt into the ceiling idea (with anchors of course) and smaller eyebolts on the panels and attached with zip ties. Worked like a charm. Here are some application photos...
Click here and read post #75 for pics.
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