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Big Kenny
New member
Its short for dumb....or Dave Matthews Band, i dunno, one or the other.......same diff...no.... jk... he can shred, well rip, or play nice chords with interesting rythym patterns
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NRS
New member
Heres what I dont understand. If Behringer is truely reverse engineering the amount of products at the quantity and rate people claim they are, then shouldnt the company actually have a pretty high percentage of decent knock off gear by now according to the very nay-sayers themselves? Afterall, no company in thier right mind would bother reverse engineering products that are'nt already proven hits elsewhere would they? I dont know what all gear this may or may not include but it seems that to say ALL Behringer gear sounds like shit and mention reverse engineering in the same paragraph is somewhat inconsistant because it would have to mean one must also think all the products Behringer has chosen to copy are complete garbage too and thats probably not likely. (That is, unless Behringer just isnt getting the reverse engineering right either).
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Big Kenny
New member
I have an old Composer that i bought years ago and modded the crap out of and it sounds pretty good, that said I hate their mixers, sound thin and tinny
jdier
New member
NRS said:
Reverse engineering is only one step. Finding a decent manufacturing and assembly plant in China is another very important step. Choosing quality component manufacturers and suppliers is another and finally, making a decision about your quality testing practices and acceptance criteria is another.
If you think about it... I mean really think about it, Components and Quality absolutely has to be where they save money... They advertise like crazy, sell through the same channels as the companies they rip off... Cutting out all R and D is not enough of a savings, and quite frankly, they have some extra costs in terms of the reverse engineering. Who knows, they may just buy the newest Mackie board and ship it to their plan in China and say "make one like this but put our name on it."
To be clear, as far as I know, I have ever used a Berhinger product. I do not like them because of their business practices.
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dmbfan1981
New member
every company copies things from other companies. Every pick-up company alludes to vintage sounds of old PAFs or whatever, wound to the same specifications etc etc. Every guitar manufacturer has a direct knock off of original fender and gibson styled guitars. Every multi effects unit contains most of the SAME effects that work the SAME way.
stop trying to be a good semaritan. business is brutal. If they blatantly ripped off any company or infringed on patents that were protected, there would be litigation quicker than you could say " behringer sucks cause their business practices "
stop trying to be a good semaritan. business is brutal. If they blatantly ripped off any company or infringed on patents that were protected, there would be litigation quicker than you could say " behringer sucks cause their business practices "
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
And Mackie did the same I'm sure. Their mixing boards aren't that different from boards that came before.dmbfan1981 said:
jdier
New member
dmbfan1981 said:
It is actually Samaritan, and sometimes companies following in their competitor's footsteps is OK, and some times it is cheap and a clear showing of a company that has little to offer but cheap products.
One of my points in my post was that they HAVE to cut costs with cheaper components and looser quality requirements because THAT is how they make money. They do not invent products that are better than anyone else and have people drooling over what they can do with them... They knock off other's products, make them with cheaper parts, accept lower quality units off the assembly line and sell them for less than their competitors.
Regarding law suits, there have been some. I believe Aphex won and Mackie settled out of court. They know that patent law is difficult and expensive to protect, so they copy products and hope that companies do not test them. That does not make it right. I know business practices are tough, but as a consumer I can choose not to buy from someone that perhaps... Uses slave labor, polutes the environment, or dumps human waste into the Chicago River. And likewise, you can choose TO buy from those companies. Neither one of us is right or wrong.
Again, I do not want to say that I think all their products are crap or that anyone who uses them is a jerk... I am just sharing my thoughts on why I do not use them. I am sure many people have made many great sounding recordings using gear from them.
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
Lt. Bob said:
Actually, they didn't. Which is why the original CR-1604 and 8-buss series was such a revolution and huge hit. They did indeed do something different from those that came before, particularily in the realm of compact mixers. There really wasn't anything comparable.
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MCI2424
New member
SonicAlbert said:
Actually, Mackie was not revolutionary in design, they were revolutionary in affordability. They were the first to offer a "large format" style console for 1/3 the price of comparables.
And now Behringer re-revolutionizes what Mackie did. They offer consoles at 1/3 the cost of Mackie.
zacanger
musician and audodidact
Ford Van said:You are going to brag about a soundtrack that won a prize at some film festival I have never heard of?I think I need to start doing film soundtrack mixing now! I will rake it in at the no name festivals!!!
Oh, dear god. Why are you so ignorant? No name festivals? Wow.
Your attitude reminds me a lot of this guy who's in Harrisburg, Jason Rubal. His claim to fame is that Amanda Palmer did a guest spot on a CD he was working on with a no-name band. He's all about how good he is, how much he knows, how much he's done. If you listen to the clips on his website they don't suck, but they're nothing special. Very average. Kinda like you. Plus for some reason he hates ribbon mics. He says they're too muddy to be useful. WTF?
As to the V-Amp, I'm not a particular fan. I had the floor model for a while, got it for free, but I sold it for almost the price it costs new on eBay, so I'm not complaining. The only real use I got out of it was when I ran a mono send of a drum submix to it and pitch shifted, compressed, and gated it so it sounded completely mechanical. It was pretty neat.
zacanger
musician and audodidact
SonicAlbert said:
Same thing I noticed. That was an incredibly ignorant statement. I've never met a musician who just plays on whatever he can find. Guitarists want their Les Pauls and Strats and PRSs, drummers want their Pearl MMX and whatever they want. Bassists want... well, the only trend I've really noticed with bassists is they always want to have big cabs, usually Ampegs.
Anyway, musicians want the gear they're used to using, not whatever they can find.
zacanger
musician and audodidact
dmbfan1981 said:
zacanger
musician and audodidact
MCI2424 said:
The thing is, Mackie boards don't sound like shit.
I do live sound for a wedding band once in a while, and they've got all their own stuff, so I just use their Behringer mixer. They never sound bad onstage, because they're a tight band, they've been playing together for over 20 years, and I know how to mix them, but the difference between this mixer and the Mackie one they used to use (until they switched bassists) is an unbelievable decrease in... something. Pleasantness, easy-to-mix-ness, whatever.
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
Dude ..... you're both misreading my statement. First off ..... whatever I trip on on the way out the door is either a Mesa Blue Angel or a Marshall 6101 or one of my 70's vintage Ampeg amps. I have 13 various tube amps ..... all of which you'd like to have.zacanger said:
I didn't say that good musicians play crap ...... I just said they're not as obsessed in general with what they use as the, mostly, amateurs that hang out here.
As for it being an 'ignorant' statement ..... I've played over 10,000 paying gigs ..... I've played with literally thousands of musicians .... I play 6 and 7 gigs a week every single week and have done so for 35 years and wherever I play whatever band is in the audience virtually always comes up to get my info so they can hire me for future gigs. I'm one of the busiest 'hired gun' musicians anywhere.
So if you disagree .... fine, say so. But calling it ignorant? Bullshit ...... I have WAY more experience playing with top line musicians than almost anyone here. I've been playing 300 gigs a year for twice as long as you've been alive and was playing weekends for 7 years before that. There are a few regulars here that work as much as I do ..... DavidK would be one of them. But, in general, I work as much as any pro in the country and I know my industry and I know my shit when it comes to live gigging and I know an uncountable number of first rate players that I've talked to about this very thing and though everyone does have his preferences ..... they do not judge musicians by their gear and do not pay as much obsessive attention to the gear list as amateurs do.
As for the fact that you've never met a musician that felt that way ...... at 17, with all due respect man ... I promise I don't think less of young musicians ..... but you simply haven't met that many of the really good players. Maybe a few but that's all because you haven't been out in the pro ranks long enough if at all..
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Ford Van
Banned
zacanger said:
LOL....funny shit. People that go on like this usually only listen to a few tracks, which usually wind up being the stuff I spent the shortest amount of time working on, or only did a small part on.
Click into The Heavy Brothers, Sky Blue Mind, Porterhouse, Ford Brothers, Silky (this was mixed via a Mackie 1604 and a 1202 hooked together, with the 1202's main outs into a effect return on the 1604 so I could mix all 24 tracks, only two channels of compression, and a Alesis Quadraverb for reverb and some cheap ass delay), and even a bit of The Red Sector (although, I had to work with the guitar player of the band on that stuff, and don't particularly care for his preference to hard/edgy/lack of richness in the low end production values).
Talk about average! Your myspace songs are a mess! When you can show a single production you have produced that is worth listening to, come on back and try to beat on mine again.
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Ford Van
Banned
I also find it ironic when a kid throws around the word "ignorant" so much. 
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MCI2424
New member
I have a Behringer tube EQ model 1951. I got it for some studio time and love it. The thing gets a unique sound when powered on.
But really, why bash any equipment. It is not the gear but the ear?
If you want to record bad enough, you will use anything and anything is better than nothing.
I wish many here grew up in the 70s. You would understand how unaffordable just getting 4 tracks was.
But really, why bash any equipment. It is not the gear but the ear?
If you want to record bad enough, you will use anything and anything is better than nothing.
I wish many here grew up in the 70s. You would understand how unaffordable just getting 4 tracks was.
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MCI2424
New member
Ford Van said:I also find it ironic when a kid throws around the word "ignorant" so much.
I find it ironic that he seems to be ignorant, but uses the word "ignorant" so much!
You seem to have missed that!
Sometimes I see the usually overlooked things.
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
I have one of those ...... a pretty fun piece of gear to get some 'specialty' sounds.MCI2424 said:
MCI2424 said:
That's it exactly. The thing is ..... compared to what was available to us geezers when we were just starting out ...... everything now is pretty cool. A mistake that younger people make when they see us saying that you can get usable stuff out of cheap gear is that they assume we can't hear the difference. I've never said that I thought there was no difference. I've simply said that you work with what you got and you can get respectable results out of even cheap Behringer gear. If a piece is noisy for example, I know ways to get around that and use it anyway without it being too much of a drawback.
I can't count the number of people I've seen that felt they wouldn't waste time recording until they had all the right gear and just ended up never doing anything.
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MOFO Pro
Opinions are like SM-57s
I bet most of these whipper snappers never even had to bounce a track...
Google it... should be somewhere near LP
Google it... should be somewhere near LP