Gear!!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter pandamonk
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Firstly, your acoustic design is simply awesome. That along with the gear you have on your list can make an excellent control room for mixing and mastering. Obviously you want to build the least expensive decent recording system possible. But, seriously, the main thing that stands between you and a good recording is... your computer.

On a PC, the on-board soundcard is crap. We all know that. If you can afford to get a Mac, get a Mac. But if you stick with a PC, you need a better soundcard. It's a given.

I know lots of people who use Delta cards. They're not all that bad. But regarding the RME vs. Delta -- RME is far superior. Fidelity, for one. Among other things, you'll notice a huge difference between a Delta 1010 and an RME ADAT in their ability to monitor digital output. An RME card will significantly reduce your PC's latency (echo caused from converting sound A/D, analog to digital). There are other factors too, of course, not just a sound card... how much RAM you have (at the very least 512mb), how fast your CPU is (go AMD dual core if you can), what speed your hard drive is and how much space you have (at least an 80gig 7200 SATA), etc.

I think the Delta does have direct monitoring that allows you to bypass the digital signal and monitor only the analog, which will work just fine for your B1 and other mics from various external pre-amps. But if you're working with a lot of MIDI, you'll really want to reduce your CPU load as much as possible... for MIDI mastering purposes (adding VST and DirectX plugins, for example, or improving the timing of your knob turning and fader tweaks). RME's cards don't use any CPU for signal processing, so you can do more, like, add more effects, without experiencing dropout.

Hope that helps. :)
 
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pandamonk said:
I'm buying it from bpape(brian) from these forums. Shipping is killing me though. I could order some if you want it. It's impossible to find ultratouch in the UK, and extremely difficult to even find rigid fiberglass. Yeah, knauf is similar to what is talked about here, but even that is quite difficult to get a hold of.

Lee
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have a look in here. You wanna get on to Travis Perkins in EastKilbride mate.

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2994 hope that link helps you some
 
jonnyc said:
Just to put it into some easy to understand terms, I've heard lots and lots of people describe going from prosumer converters to high level conveters as "taking a blanket off my monitors". But 1010's will get you close enough, they won't really hurt your sound, it just won't sound as good as it could. Not to mention most good songs shine through the crappy gear.
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Yeah, this is what I was thinking. I'm not desperate for top of the range professional sound, just something decent. It's just a little studio in a shed at the bottom of the garden. You think the delta will be good enough?
 
pandamonk, does the dashed line on the back of your absorber represent a wood panel? also, why aren't you covering the corners at the wall/wall junction behind your monitors. i'm just curious of your acoustic treatment ideas.

will you really be making use of 16 ins/outs in your shed studio? if not, it seems like you would be better off putting the money toward higher quality than quantity.
 
mindbuzz said:
Firstly, your acoustic design is simply awesome. That along with the gear you have on your list can make an excellent control room for mixing and mastering. Obviously you want to build the least expensive decent recording system possible. But, seriously, the main thing that stands between you and a good recording is... your computer.

On a PC, the on-board soundcard is crap. We all know that. If you can afford to get a Mac, get a Mac. But if you stick with a PC, you need a better soundcard. It's a given.

I know lots of people who use Delta cards. They're not all that bad. But regarding the RME vs. Delta -- RME is far superior. Fidelity, for one. Among other things, you'll notice a huge difference between a Delta 1010 and an RME ADAT in their ability to monitor digital output. An RME card will significantly reduce your PC's latency (echo caused from converting sound A/D, analog to digital). There are other factors too, of course, not just a sound card... how much RAM you have (at the very least 512mb), how fast your CPU is (go AMD dual core if you can), what speed your hard drive is and how much space you have (at least an 80gig 7200 SATA), etc.

I think the Delta does have direct monitoring that allows you to bypass the digital signal and monitor only the analog, which will work just fine for your B1 and other mics from various external pre-amps. But if you're working with a lot of MIDI, you'll really want to reduce your CPU load as much as possible... for MIDI mastering purposes (adding VST and DirectX plugins, for example, or improving the timing of your knob turning and fader tweaks). RME's cards don't use any CPU for signal processing, so you can do more, like, add more effects, without experiencing dropout.

Hope that helps. :)
Click to expand...
I'll be building my own PC, at least 2gig ram, fastest AMD dual core i can afford, biggest SATA HD as i can afford, etc.

I doubt I'll use much/any midi. The most that i'll do is and e-drum kit, but that'll only be on very few occasions.

Yeah i read that RME don't use any CPU, but if I have a fast enough CPU and ram, i doubt it'll matter too much, will it?
 
LemonTree said:
have a look in here. You wanna get on to Travis Perkins in EastKilbride mate.

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2994 hope that link helps you some
Click to expand...
Seems to be £27.23 per pack. And is that the same as rigid fiberglass? What density etc? Are they the cheapest suppliers you know of? Have you searched around for cheaper?

Has it worked well for you?
 
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TravisinFlorida said:
pandamonk, does the dashed line on the back of your absorber represent a wood panel? also, why aren't you covering the corners at the wall/wall junction behind your monitors. i'm just curious of your acoustic treatment ideas.

will you really be making use of 16 ins/outs in your shed studio? if not, it seems like you would be better off putting the money toward higher quality than quantity.
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I think i definitely could make use of the 16. I was planning 32 before, but realised it was a bit much, so cut down to 16. The dashed line represents the 1"x1" wood frame. There isn't enough room to cover those corners. The room's only 6'6"x7'6". I will cover the wall/ceiling at the back, and possibly the front, if it'll fit.

This is the side view. Is there much point in the panels staddeling the wall/ceiling corners?
 

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I thinking of something like this for my pc, but I'll probably upgrade the ram to 4gb, and buy a second HD. I'll also house it in a rack mount case.
 
Ok, yeah, outwith the debate about the RME and Delta, what 2 channel clean rack-mount preamp would you recommend upto around $500? And what 8 and 4 channel similar/same pres, all 12 for £500($1000)? What about the FOCUSRITE OCTOPRE LE, £320.15? and what similar 4 channel(has to be rack-mountable, preferably with the inputs on the back?

With the octopre, i'd happily buy the RME or Echo, 'cause i could use the adats. What would be better out of the Echo LAYLA 3G, and RME Multiface II? I'd prefer it to be rack-mountable. What's the differences?

Thanks
 
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pandamonk said:
Seems to be £27.23 per pack. And is that the same as rigid fiberglass? What density etc? Are they the cheapest suppliers you know of? Have you searched around for cheaper?

Has it worked well for you?
Click to expand...


Is that a price from Travis Perkins? Seems strange it would jump up another £8 in such a short time. It's exactly the same as owens corning r 703, it's a pack of 10 slabs that covers 7.2 m2.

As for the Delta 1010's, I ve been using 3 of them in my system for a few years now, 24in/24out back to a soundtracs analog desk (Topaz project 8 24/8/2).

I'm still using the same computer I built 18 months ago. Asus p4p800E Deluxe mobo, 2 Gig of dual channel DDR400 ram, Intel P IV 3GHz processor 800MHz FSB, 2 SATA drives, one for the stripped out operating system (XP Pro minus all the network.internet/fancy graphics crap) and one for recording onto. Housed in an Antec 19" rack (it's very deep, a monster that weighs a ton)

I record into cubase SX, everything gets streamed back out the three Delta 1010s to the board but I can run a shitload of compression, eq, reverbs and whatever from within cubase on each track. My processor never bumps much above 40% on a full 24 track mixdown @ 24bit/96Khz, so you don't have to have the fastest of everything, it sometimes pays to have a little slower with more quality. Money you can save anywhere will go towards something else more needed.


Is this a wooden shed? I take it you're going for more acoustic treatment rather than soundproofing to protect the outside world if it is. In any case, good luck with it. Anything I can help you with feel free to ask.

Alec.
 
LemonTree said:
Is that a price from Travis Perkins? Seems strange it would jump up another £8 in such a short time. It's exactly the same as owens corning r 703, it's a pack of 10 slabs that covers 7.2 m2.

As for the Delta 1010's, I ve been using 3 of them in my system for a few years now, 24in/24out back to a soundtracs analog desk (Topaz project 8 24/8/2).

I'm still using the same computer I built 18 months ago. Asus p4p800E Deluxe mobo, 2 Gig of dual channel DDR400 ram, Intel P IV 3GHz processor 800MHz FSB, 2 SATA drives, one for the stripped out operating system (XP Pro minus all the network.internet/fancy graphics crap) and one for recording onto. Housed in an Antec 19" rack (it's very deep, a monster that weighs a ton)

I record into cubase SX, everything gets streamed back out the three Delta 1010s to the board but I can run a shitload of compression, eq, reverbs and whatever from within cubase on each track. My processor never bumps much above 40% on a full 24 track mixdown @ 24bit/96Khz, so you don't have to have the fastest of everything, it sometimes pays to have a little slower with more quality. Money you can save anywhere will go towards something else more needed.


Is this a wooden shed? I take it you're going for more acoustic treatment rather than soundproofing to protect the outside world if it is. In any case, good luck with it. Anything I can help you with feel free to ask.

Alec.
Click to expand...
It has the apperance of a wooden shed, haha. Nah it's plasterboard(still to be fitted), tongue and groove(wish i did'nt have three layers, but i don't really see this tongue and groove as a layer, holes everywhere and very thin), insultation, and osb with tongue and groove. I could do with bulking it up a bit, but it's about a foot thick. This is only to house the control room and 1 live room, for amps etc. Then then world war bombshelter which is plasterboard then 3 layers of bricks, with concrete floor and ceiling. That is where the drums and vocals will be recorded. It's quite close to neighbours, but they have thick walls and double glazing. It's nearer the back of their house, which they say they don't really use much except meal times. I am concerned about isolation, but i don't really think they're will be too much of a problem. The biggest problem will probably be the airport 1 mile away, lol. But yeah, acoustics are very important to me as well.

You think that's still a good price? I don't really know where else to look.
 
I'm forgetting I bought it at trade price so this could well be the markup for public sale. Got any mates in the building trade? Yeah I'm afraid TravisPerkins were the cheapest suppliers I could find anywhere in the UK. My control room is 11½' x 8' x7' high. 5 packs was more than enough to do the whole room and make 2 floor to ceiling bass traps for the back corners with half a pack left over so all in all it was money very well spent, under £100 in the end

Something you might have overlooked is how hot it's gonna get in there, even in the winter believe me. I have the computer, half a dozen pieces of rack gear, pair of powered monitors, 2 LCD's and the board. The heat gets crazy out of control after an hour. Another mistake I made was fitting hallogen spots into the ceiling, those puppies give off more heat than a 3 bar electric fire. Go for lights with a 12V stepdown transformet, the LED filled ones are good.

One of them cheap exelair fans for toilets with no windows can be a godsend and a lot easier to fit at the build stage rather than later down the line (as I discovered) I also invested in one of them portable air con units form B&Q...obviously that's something you can pick up really cheap, I got an end of the line one for $50 cause they were getting new stock in and the box was a bit tatty.

The more you can get right at the build stage the less money you're gonna have to spend further down the line rectifying the problems that crop up.
 
LemonTree said:
I'm forgetting I bought it at trade price so this could well be the markup for public sale. Got any mates in the building trade? Yeah I'm afraid TravisPerkins were the cheapest suppliers I could find anywhere in the UK. My control room is 11½' x 8' x7' high. 5 packs was more than enough to do the whole room and make 2 floor to ceiling bass traps for the back corners with half a pack left over so all in all it was money very well spent, under £100 in the end

Something you might have overlooked is how hot it's gonna get in there, even in the winter believe me. I have the computer, half a dozen pieces of rack gear, pair of powered monitors, 2 LCD's and the board. The heat gets crazy out of control after an hour. Another mistake I made was fitting hallogen spots into the ceiling, those puppies give off more heat than a 3 bar electric fire. Go for lights with a 12V stepdown transformet, the LED filled ones are good.

One of them cheap exelair fans for toilets with no windows can be a godsend and a lot easier to fit at the build stage rather than later down the line (as I discovered) I also invested in one of them portable air con units form B&Q...obviously that's something you can pick up really cheap, I got an end of the line one for $50 cause they were getting new stock in and the box was a bit tatty.

The more you can get right at the build stage the less money you're gonna have to spend further down the line rectifying the problems that crop up.
Click to expand...
My Dad's an electrician, would that help?

I have ventilation in the studio, intake and extract, which are just extraction fans. They're quite noisy, but I can turn them off during recording etc, and once they're boxed in(when we fit the plasterboard)they shouldn't be too loud. I have 2in 2out for the four rooms.

I'll also have some fans, or protable air con, to keep the heat down, and heaters to heat the place up when it's cold.

My dad will sort out the lights etc.

Lee
 
Right what 4 channel rack mountable(preferably with inputs on back) pre, with similar pres to the focusrite octopre le, are there under £200($400)? And what good 2 channel rack mountable pres(with back inputs) are there upto around £250($500)? I can't find any 4 channel pres except sm pro audio, and that's not rack, has front inputs, and probably too cheap to be any good. And for 2 channel pres around £250, I'm spoilt for choice. I'm thinking SPL Goldmike for one, but what other? ART MPA GOLD(looks similar to Goldmike, and a bit over budget)?
 
This is my plans so far:

Mics
Studio Projects B1
2x t.bone RB100
t.bone SCT-700
t.bone SC450 Stereoset
??????????????

preamps
FOCUSRITE OCTOPRE LE
SPL GOLDMIKE
????????????????????
????????????????

AD/DA converter
Echo Layla 3G?

PC
ebay, AMD dual core, 4gb ram, 100s GB hd
Rack mount case

Software
Sonar Producers Edition 6

Control Surface
Behringer BCF2000

E-drums
Millenium MD70

Monitoring
TASCAM VL-X5
M-Audio LX4 5.1 Surround-Set
2x the t.bone HD-990D
4x Behringer HPS 3000
BEHRINGER HA8000
 
pandamonk said:
This is my plans so far:


PC
ebay, AMD dual core, 4gb ram, 100s GB hd
Rack mount case
Click to expand...

get a computer with two hard drives, you want SATA 7200rpm, the Seagate barracudas are good for the price.

2 Smaller drives are bigger than one large one. Keep your operating system and everything else on one drive and use the second only to record to. This will give you much better disk performance when streaming back loads of different tracks at mixdown.

Remember, the general rule here is the smaller the drive the faster the seek time
 
LemonTree said:
get a computer with two hard drives, you want SATA 7200rpm, the Seagate barracudas are good for the price.

2 Smaller drives are bigger than one large one. Keep your operating system and everything else on one drive and use the second only to record to. This will give you much better disk performance when streaming back loads of different tracks at mixdown.

Remember, the general rule here is the smaller the drive the faster the seek time
Click to expand...
Will have 2 sata hard drives :D and maybe an external for extra storage for clients.
 
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LemonTree said:
Remember, the general rule here is the smaller the drive the faster the seek time
Click to expand...

I never really thought about that but it does sound logical.
 
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