Five hunderd bucks for this???

[ecktronic]

Just in case you all wanna make sure!

http://www.phoenixlightandsound.com/Audio

Some of this is crap music with hurried productions, others are well funded projects. You will hear the difference.

In particular, Sky Blue Mind, Heavy Brothers, Porterhouse, The Red Sector, BOD (Better Off Dad, Chris and Jaimee Harris) and the Ford Brothers (the two brothers of Roben Ford.........). There are some scattered live mixes in there that are worth a listen.

Good quality sound Ford. One difference between you and me is I dont work with professionally recorded tracks. I work with mostly home recorded tracks and your average studio recordings. I aint a recording engineer because I dont have the equipment!

It isnt hard to mix well recorded tracks as in your case. There is nothing special that sticks out in your mixes. Kind of bog standard, this is how it "should" sound, sound.

Eck

 

[gummblefish]

The bottom line is: If this was a well written and arranged song, nobody would be questioning the sound.

Thats absolutely true, Of That i am certain. I think the lesson here is to have your song arranged and planned before stepping into a studio, that way it will run more smoothly. Or as Dylan would say "An' i will know my song well before i start singing" I would never advocate anyone to go into a studio with nothing planned and "see what happens" unless you are multi-miliionaire's and have all the time you need to work that way, or you are The Beatles. They way it works for me now, and has become my motto is "if you cant play live, you dont play it at all" Harse as that sounds, there's a discipline there that keeps my recordings straight. Im not sure what the Engineer/musician relationship was on this session, sometimes a little constructive criticism goes along way in a session. If your clients are new to recording then i personally feel you should guide them through it. Anyway this is all after the fact stuff. Not every recording thats done in a studio sounds good.

 

[Ford Van]

Good quality sound Ford. One difference between you and me is I dont work with professionally recorded tracks. I work with mostly home recorded tracks and your average studio recordings. I aint a recording engineer because I dont have the equipment!

It isnt hard to mix well recorded tracks as in your case. There is nothing special that sticks out in your mixes. Kind of bog standard, this is how it "should" sound, sound.

Eck

Believe it or not, almost everything on there was recorded in basements, using VERY average "pro-sumer" type of gear!

 

[BRIEFCASEMANX]

Not every recording thats done in a studio sounds good.

Especially for $125 per song tracking, mixing, and uhhhh.......mastering.

 

[gummblefish]

Especially for $125 per song tracking, mixing, and uhhhh.......mastering.

Ive done better for less.

 

[Farview]

Ive done better for less.

What was your hourly rate?

I've done better for free, but it's hard to feed your family that way.

 

[gummblefish]

What was your hourly rate?

I've done better for free, but it's hard to feed your family that way.

No hourly rate. Pay on finished product. However with a deposit just incase they did a runner. I prefer to work that way, just quote a price on a job then do it. The last two production jobs i have done though i had to book out a studio, so obviously im working on borrowed time. If it was in my last studio i would have been happy to sit there with it for a few days for the money i was getting.

 

[Farview]

No hourly rate. Pay on finished product. However with a deposit just incase they did a runner. I prefer to work that way, just quote a price on a job then do it. The last two production jobs i have done though i had to book out a studio, so obviously im working on borrowed time. If it was in my last studio i would have been happy to sit there with it for a few days for the money i was getting.

Take the amount of money you got paid and divide it by the time you spent on it. Figure out what you got paid per hour, you might be suprised.

 

[gummblefish]

Take the amount of money you got paid and divide it by the time you spent on it. Figure out what you got paid per hour, you might be suprised.

No, on the job that i said i did it for less i was paid £150, thats pounds stirling. 3 days work. Good job, fair amount of money for my time and equipment at that point. The other two jobs that i mentioned were commisions. If i was to break those down to an hourly rate it would be somewhere in the region of £70 an hour. i made quite a bit on those two projects, however the job was equal to it and they were happy with it.

 

[fraserhutch]

I wonder why it is necessary fgor folk to say "pounds sterling"? Is the sterling qualifier necessary? Is there a "pounds pewter"? A "pounds Brittannia"?

 

[Farview]

No, on the job that i said i did it for less i was paid £150, thats pounds stirling. 3 days work.

That translates to $100/day. That's nothing.

The other two jobs that i mentioned were commisions. If i was to break those down to an hourly rate it would be somewhere in the region of £70 an hour. i made quite a bit on those two projects, however the job was equal to it and they were happy with it.

That's $130/hr. You were able to track, mix, and master a 4 song demeo in less than 4 hours AND make it sound better? My hat's off to you.

BTW $500 is about £265.

 

[Crumbles]

I wonder why it is necessary fgor folk to say "pounds sterling"? Is the sterling qualifier necessary? Is there a "pounds pewter"? A "pounds Brittannia"?

No, but there is a pounds myass

 

[cello_pudding]

everything seems to be tinny. the clean guitar in the beginning was actually good, but how things sat in the mix was terrible. the distortion is confusing everything.

the kick/cymbals/distortion are just single noise.

i would be interested in how the guitar sounds live.

it seems that sound is from micing the speaker too close. some people say 57 1 inch from the grill...but i think it is tinny. i put mine more like..a foot and a few inches away and then find a 3:1 place to find a good place for a ldc to get the highs that you really want.

yeah...bad tracking on the drums and guitars.

 

[gummblefish]

That translates to $100/day. That's nothing.

That's $130/hr. You were able to track, mix, and master a 4 song demeo in less than 4 hours AND make it sound better? My hat's off to you.

BTW $500 is about £265.

No, The first instance i mentioned was an example of a job that i have done for less. It was a case of a 4 track demo and mixing. The guys were happy and i got more work from some of their friends rehearsing reguarly in my place. The commisions were an example of what i have charged in the past. It certainly wasnt a 4 track demo and it wasnt 4 hours. I walked away with over £3000, after tax.

 

[Farview]

No, The first instance i mentioned was an example of a job that i have done for less. It was a case of a 4 track demo and mixing.

So you aren't comparing apples to apples.

All I'm saying is that a band that walks in off the street and has $500 to do a 4 song demo, is not going to get album quality. Especially if they don't have their sound and playing together.

The engineer can only do so much with what he has to work with in the time he has to work on it. Case in point: I have just spent 3 hours quantizing drums on one song. The drums were fine, just not perfect. But that just cost the client $150. There are 14 more songs to do. This is an album that will be out on a label with worldwide distribution, it has to be done right. Last week, I had a band in here that had $300 and did 3 songs. It didn't sound as good as a lot of the stuff I do, but I only had 1/2 hour to mix 3 songs (on the same day of the tracking). What do you expect.

 

[Zaphod B]

There is plenty to criticize in the mix, the performance, and the arrangement. The end product isn't very good.

But if the band was looking for a four-song demo to get club gigs, and they felt that it represents their sound accurately, then they got their money's worth.

That last song is a complete train wreck.

 

[gummblefish]

So you aren't comparing apples to apples.

All I'm saying is that a band that walks in off the street and has $500 to do a 4 song demo, is not going to get album quality. Especially if they don't have their sound and playing together.

The engineer can only do so much with what he has to work with in the time he has to work on it. Case in point: I have just spent 3 hours quantizing drums on one song. The drums were fine, just not perfect. But that just cost the client $150. There are 14 more songs to do. This is an album that will be out on a label with worldwide distribution, it has to be done right. Last week, I had a band in here that had $300 and did 3 songs. It didn't sound as good as a lot of the stuff I do, but I only had 1/2 hour to mix 3 songs (on the same day of the tracking). What do you expect.

I do absolutely take your point. I would rather not have to sit a coax a band into playing, sometimes it can be fun though. The price is always relative to the time and the engineer and product.

 

[cello_pudding]

yeah...i remember being in nashville visiting studios...and people saying.."yeah, we're pretty cheap. we can do a demo for around 8,000"

its like..8,000????

Think...10 songs...800/song. You have a lot of tracking to do for 1 song. Drums, bass, multiple guitars, many vocals, other instruments...that may take a long day to do depending on the quality of the musician. then put in mixing time for that one song...

i could see how 8k is cheap.

 

[Ford Van]

So you aren't comparing apples to apples.

All I'm saying is that a band that walks in off the street and has $500 to do a 4 song demo, is not going to get album quality. Especially if they don't have their sound and playing together.

The engineer can only do so much with what he has to work with in the time he has to work on it. Case in point: I have just spent 3 hours quantizing drums on one song. The drums were fine, just not perfect. But that just cost the client $150. There are 14 more songs to do. This is an album that will be out on a label with worldwide distribution, it has to be done right. Last week, I had a band in here that had $300 and did 3 songs. It didn't sound as good as a lot of the stuff I do, but I only had 1/2 hour to mix 3 songs (on the same day of the tracking). What do you expect.

Farview, he really isn't running a for real "for hire" studio like you do, and like I have in the past. He probably has never had the burden to deal with, and thus will just continue to argue his weak point on this subject.

I totally agree with you (as I stated earlier)! Most here have no idea how LITTLE studio time $500 buys you, even in a local small studio! Couple that with a band that is FAR from ready to record, well, what kind of product can you expect from the studio?

I listened to the other demo's that studio had on it's myspace page. Really, the engineer(s?) are quite good, and VERY capable, and definately worth the meager money they charge. If I was looking for a studio in their price range, and was in their area, I would seriously consider using them for sure!

There are few around here who I would even waste my time working with, even if they were offering to work for free! I find it amazing that so many marginally talented engineers can so easily blast this product, like they can do better or something (under the same circumstances).

Oh well..........

 

[gummblefish]

Farview, he really isn't running a for real "for hire" studio like you do, and like I have in the past. He probably has never had the burden to deal with, and thus will just continue to argue his weak point on this subject.

Are you referring to me?