Eliminating noise from RCA patchbay setup

I wish I could help. I’ve never used one of those things. What is that you have actually? Like brand, model, link to a manual?

I simply plugged an analog synth thats being sent through a reverb pedal to this device and into the patchbay or into the patchbay out to this device back to the patchbay.
the mixer is 3 prong, onespot pedal power souce is 2 and the synth is 2 prong into a powerstrip thats 3 prong. Also have used japanese 100V synths going into this device into a 3 prong wall.
 
Take the ground loop isolator out of the picture for a bit.

Take the reverb pedal out of the picture for a bit also.

Is the synth you are using in this test 100V with the step-down transformer powering it?

So now you just have the mixer and the patchbay with the synth connected to the patchbay and the I/O connected between the mixer and the patchbay.

Any change in the noise better or worse?

If it’s the same or worse, what happens if you take a wire and connect that or touch that to a bare metal spot on the synth chassis and connect or touch the other end to the mixer chassis? If both have ground lugs just use those. Otherwise you’ll need to sort out how you want to accomplish that, but the goal is just to test what happens with your hum problem if the two chassis are grounded to each other.
 
Take the ground loop isolator out of the picture for a bit.

Take the reverb pedal out of the picture for a bit also.

Is the synth you are using in this test 100V with the step-down transformer powering it?

So now you just have the mixer and the patchbay with the synth connected to the patchbay and the I/O connected between the mixer and the patchbay.

Any change in the noise better or worse?

If it’s the same or worse, what happens if you take a wire and connect that or touch that to a bare metal spot on the synth chassis and connect or touch the other end to the mixer chassis? If both have ground lugs just use those. Otherwise you’ll need to sort out how you want to accomplish that, but the goal is just to test what happens with your hum problem if the two chassis are grounded to each other.
the noise will increase or decrease when the rca is wiggled on the jack on the patchbay. sometimes i patch into it and unmute my channel and get a loud RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH so i reseat it and its fine. the noise level can change depending on the position of the rca plug in the jack. no idea why
 
Have you considered maybe it’s your cable? You’ve tried different cables, yes? Are you using the cheap cables you’ve not been happy with?
 
Have you considered maybe it’s your cable? You’ve tried different cables, yes? Are you using the cheap cables you’ve not been happy with?
the cables arent causing the short and loud buzz its just the old sockets from the different ones i tried. havent gotten the old cables yet. should mention i have the patchabys velcro's together on top of eachother if that matters
 
Well I hate to say it, but at this point I’m at a loss. You indicated there was no continuity from jack set to jack set using an ohm meter, you could check that same thing from jack set to patchbay chassis. If there is no continuity it shouldn’t matter if the patchbays are touching each other or not.

You can try the other things I suggested in my post before my last as troubleshooting steps and report back, but I think you have issues going on that can’t be addressed without either being there in person to help, or you patiently following suggestions and posting responses with explicit detail. It takes a lot of work for helper and helpee to work through complex issues like this over a public forum. Like, I suspect the solution is relatively simple, but to get to it is likely complex in terms of sorting things out. You probably have more than one issue to resolve. I’m thinking if I was there there would be at least one thing where I’d go “oh, no, no. You need to [get rid of that/not use those/connect it this way]” that I might see pretty quickly, but you don’t know what’s important to share and I can’t know everything to ask you to share, so I’m looking at your problem through a peephole.

Anybody else have any ideas?

Like the first thing I’d do if I was there is verify continuity of jacks to jacks and jacks to chassis, verify serviceable condition of cables, and then start measuring chassis to chassis for stray/differential voltage…start looking at how signal ground relates to chassis ground for each device. But I can’t do all that from here.
 
Well I hate to say it, but at this point I’m at a loss. You indicated there was no continuity from jack set to jack set using an ohm meter, you could check that same thing from jack set to patchbay chassis. If there is no continuity it shouldn’t matter if the patchbays are touching each other or not.

You can try the other things I suggested in my post before my last as troubleshooting steps and report back, but I think you have issues going on that can’t be addressed without either being there in person to help, or you patiently following suggestions and posting responses with explicit detail. It takes a lot of work for helper and helpee to work through complex issues like this over a public forum. Like, I suspect the solution is relatively simple, but to get to it is likely complex in terms of sorting things out. You probably have more than one issue to resolve. I’m thinking if I was there there would be at least one thing where I’d go “oh, no, no. You need to [get rid of that/not use those/connect it this way]” that I might see pretty quickly, but you don’t know what’s important to share and I can’t know everything to ask you to share, so I’m looking at your problem through a peephole.

Anybody else have any ideas?

Like the first thing I’d do if I was there is verify continuity of jacks to jacks and jacks to chassis, verify serviceable condition of cables, and then start measuring chassis to chassis for stray/differential voltage…start looking at how signal ground relates to chassis ground for each device. But I can’t do all that from here.
im going to try to get more detailed info going and try some better cables and remove everything. my apologies ive been very busy since making this post. give me a few days to run some more tests. I appreciate the suggestions a lot!
 
The 'better' cables can be a wasted money case - They are either good or bad - the options are very limited. They have a number of circuits - two or three, depending on the type of connector. They will be either open or short circuits on the meter. Or maybe think about it as connection vs no connection. The only faults will be rotten solder joints that instead of a short reading (correct) show a few Ohms (incorrect). The usual issues are where 3 connections are used - like a TRS type 1/4" or 3.5mm. In these in an unbalanced connection one is internally shorted to another. Imagine a TRS jack to jack cable. If somebody swapped around the connections to the tip and sleeve - it would work between a balanced an unbalanced device - but would not work on an unbalanced to unbalanced connection, because it would be shorted both ends - a weird situation - where a perfectly good cable refuses to work on just some combinations of gear - just bad luck really. Patch bays are just nice ways to do the job, but all the cables need testing to make sure they're not faulty or weirdly wired.
 
The 'better' cables can be a wasted money case - They are either good or bad - the options are very limited. They have a number of circuits - two or three, depending on the type of connector. They will be either open or short circuits on the meter. Or maybe think about it as connection vs no connection. The only faults will be rotten solder joints that instead of a short reading (correct) show a few Ohms (incorrect). The usual issues are where 3 connections are used - like a TRS type 1/4" or 3.5mm. In these in an unbalanced connection one is internally shorted to another. Imagine a TRS jack to jack cable. If somebody swapped around the connections to the tip and sleeve - it would work between a balanced an unbalanced device - but would not work on an unbalanced to unbalanced connection, because it would be shorted both ends - a weird situation - where a perfectly good cable refuses to work on just some combinations of gear - just bad luck really. Patch bays are just nice ways to do the job, but all the cables need testing to make sure they're not faulty or weirdly wired.
its strange as it seems the buzz is mostly not present anymore at offensive levels with line inputs. I figured microphones shouldnt touch that patchbay. Its quite silly as the original idea was a bay for all my synths but then i thought i could have everything patchable. I can most likely get away with keeping my mixdown deck inputs isolated from the bay to prevent any issues and keep my line level stuff going through it and my decks on it. Can effects sends be ran through half normal bays?
 
There are two issues with mic levels in patch bays. The common one is the contacts. Engineers at places like the bbc spent hours cleaning thousands of contacts. A special solid plug with tiny holes drilled with even diamond burnishes and fluids, you put the thing in, then squirt down the hole and rapidly rotate it so it cleaned the contacts that touch the plug, plus the normalling wipers. There was some evidence that phantom power, permanently connected, increased the oxidisation process. Mic level on XLRs in a panel are fine, but converting to jacks for the patch are bad. Phantom also gets momentarily shorted when you stick the plug in, and on shared phantom power this can cause noise. I’ve never damaged a ribbon by plugging in with phantom on, but clearly via a patch bay, there would be scope to put volts on 2 but have 3 grounded? That is not sensible.
 
So it seems a new development happened while i was troubleshooting. i had a Korg Dw6000 100v running off a step up down tranformer connected directly to the bay with one of the cheapo patchcables. dead quiet or at least no buzzing, My DR55 drumbox running off batteries was buzzing like hell tho and i was confused because i just finished a song with it. I looked and saw it was ontop of the korg near the powersupply port, pulled it away and the buzzing stopped. so i think this buzzing is being caused by interference from the power supplies of multiple gear. Is this still a ground problem or can i shield my patchbay to reject it?
 
So it seems a new development happened while i was troubleshooting. i had a Korg Dw6000 100v running off a step up down tranformer connected directly to the bay with one of the cheapo patchcables. dead quiet or at least no buzzing, My DR55 drumbox running off batteries was buzzing like hell tho and i was confused because i just finished a song with it. I looked and saw it was ontop of the korg near the powersupply port, pulled it away and the buzzing stopped. so i think this buzzing is being caused by interference from the power supplies of multiple gear. Is this still a ground problem or can i shield my patchbay to reject it?
"Audio rigging 101. Keep audio cables and gear away from AC mains cables and gear." ESPECIALLY prone to spewing hum are 'wall rat'power supplies.Keep them at least a foot from audio sources. Transformers designed for 60Hz mains are often taken closer to 'saturation' on 50Hz and thus radiate even more muck.

Dave.
 
I spent an agonising 30 mins pre-show a few nights ago because the folk in the followspot box, lighting and sound positions could not hear the stage manager for a fearful buzz. Eventually tracked down to one of the visiting crew moving the comms headset and hanging it on the protruding convenient box poking out of the wall, containing a contactor connected to the fire alarm. The field from the relay coil was getting into the comms. Moving it just 6" away cured the fault. Anything that hums on batteries is worthy of a look. Glad you found it.
 
I spent an agonising 30 mins pre-show a few nights ago because the folk in the followspot box, lighting and sound positions could not hear the stage manager for a fearful buzz. Eventually tracked down to one of the visiting crew moving the comms headset and hanging it on the protruding convenient box poking out of the wall, containing a contactor connected to the fire alarm. The field from the relay coil was getting into the comms. Moving it just 6" away cured the fault. Anything that hums on batteries is worthy of a look. Glad you found it.
Gahhgh! That would be dreadful! The shaded pole relay would have a very distorted holding current and thus put out masses of harmonics.

Dave.
 
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