DESPERATELY need help with possible ground loop?

Thorfinn

Thorfinn

New member
Hey everyone! First time posting here so hopefully this is the right place. I've been having an issue that I can't wrap my head around and I'll do my best to explain everything as well as possible..

I live in apartments and have turned my second bedroom into a studio room. I'm experiencing an issue where I can almost hear an electrical noise every now and then. To me, it sounds like electrical interfernace. I'll post a clip of what it sounds like if if i raise the volume.

Brand new Clarett+ 8pre interface
ART PRO MPA 2 pre
Avantone CVA 12 mic
UA-SP1 mic
Yamaha HS7 speakers
Dell XPS 8950 Tower
Live Wire Power Conditioner
Reaper paid subscription

Things I know are that even if i turn my phone off and put it in the other room and turn literally everything else in the room off, I still get this interference. If I use my HP laptop instead of my computer, I still hear it. Oddly enough, I can actually hear it in my speakers as well. Its not loud and if im playing any type of audio, then the audio overpowers it, but when my speakers are on and nothing is playing (even if my DAW is completely closed and interface turned off, I still hear it through the speakers). I don't hear it when I'm using a Rode NT1A or Shure KSM 32, but It pokes through when I'm using the SP-1s or the Avantone. Again, its not terribly loud and I can edit it out, but it's impossible to capture any space because I can hear it especially when it start layering compressors. I even purchased a dirty electricity filter and that did not do anything. Everything is plugged into the power conditioner except the computer and computer and PC are plugged into same wall outlet. I even experimented by running an extension cord from my interface to an outlet in a different room and I still hear the noise. It's possible that its radio interference or a really bad ground loop but at this point im not sure. I'd greatly apprecaite any and all feedback as this is making me lose sleep haha..

EDIT
I did some tests and used one of those iRig mobile interfaces, a new 1ft XLR, and one of the UA-SP1 pencil condensers and literally heard the noise through the whole apartment while walking around. It was worse in the studio room, but still. And it’s funny cuz we moved from one apartment to another down the courtyard and in the old apartment i was getting this noise, just not as intensely.

I also just wrapped everything in faraday paper and the only thing that stopped the noise was completely wrapping the microphone itself in the paper. The interface/computer/power source being wrapped didn’t do anything.. so I’m leaning towards some type of RF but i don’t even know how to go about confirming or dealing with this.
 

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That is the sound of the data in your computer zapping around. The data bus in the computer is leaking into your audio system. A few things to do in reaper. Plug something into the interface and check it records normally. Then disconnect it and hit record for about 10 secs. Normalise what you recorded so it's loud and see if its just noise (good) or that burbly data noise. If it's just noise, then the trouble is after reaper, when it outputs back to the interface and speakers. It's often picked up on the ground of the USB cable, so it's a bit like a ground loop, but it's not. These things are a hum, at either 50/60 Hz and possibly 100/120Hz and pretty much stays the same. It might get louder or quieter as you connect other gear.

If you have another USB cable swap it out. Sometimes, though, the noise is on the ground of the computer, and just gets spread to the interface via the grounds. You can make filters which might help. If you have an old loudspeaker - strip out the circular magnet, and wrap the usb, or even DC cables a few turns through the hole, and cover them in tape to keep them in place. This is a mega version of those little blacvk ferrite lumps in DC power cables and can help.

The bad news is that sometimes it is just bad luck with two pieces of kit that are prone to it. My Tascam interface has that noise very slightly if I turn it up and moving the mouse makes the weird noise. Mine though is quiet enough to not be that bad, and the noise is NOT recorded. My friend has it between a Nord Keyboard and his M audio interface and the culprit is his computer. The Nord and interface are silent when he brings them here, and when his Nord died and he temporarily used a different keyboard, the noise went away. It's not the Nord, just the Nord - M-audio and his computer conspiring. If you can, try different cable, and connected devices and see if maybe even a different USB socket might help. This is very common and VERY annoying.
 
rob aylestone said:
That is the sound of the data in your computer zapping around. The data bus in the computer is leaking into your audio system. A few things to do in reaper. Plug something into the interface and check it records normally. Then disconnect it and hit record for about 10 secs. Normalise what you recorded so it's loud and see if its just noise (good) or that burbly data noise. If it's just noise, then the trouble is after reaper, when it outputs back to the interface and speakers. It's often picked up on the ground of the USB cable, so it's a bit like a ground loop, but it's not. These things are a hum, at either 50/60 Hz and possibly 100/120Hz and pretty much stays the same. It might get louder or quieter as you connect other gear.

If you have another USB cable swap it out. Sometimes, though, the noise is on the ground of the computer, and just gets spread to the interface via the grounds. You can make filters which might help. If you have an old loudspeaker - strip out the circular magnet, and wrap the usb, or even DC cables a few turns through the hole, and cover them in tape to keep them in place. This is a mega version of those little blacvk ferrite lumps in DC power cables and can help.

The bad news is that sometimes it is just bad luck with two pieces of kit that are prone to it. My Tascam interface has that noise very slightly if I turn it up and moving the mouse makes the weird noise. Mine though is quiet enough to not be that bad, and the noise is NOT recorded. My friend has it between a Nord Keyboard and his M audio interface and the culprit is his computer. The Nord and interface are silent when he brings them here, and when his Nord died and he temporarily used a different keyboard, the noise went away. It's not the Nord, just the Nord - M-audio and his computer conspiring. If you can, try different cable, and connected devices and see if maybe even a different USB socket might help. This is very common and VERY annoying.
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Thanks for the response! The data zapping noise makes a lot of sense. Just tried that and it's sounding like its just hiss noise; no burbly noise so that helps with narrowing it down!. It would make sense that its coming from the computer, but my only issue with that is that even if the computer is off, I still can hear the noise. I turned on the interface and speakers and plugged in one of my UA mics and still heard the noise even with my computer off. Sometime next week im gonna head over to one of my friends studios to test the mics/cables/interface and he's gonna bring his apollo over to my place.
 
spantini said:
Sounds a little like this cable modem :
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Yeah it kind of does. I wouldnt be surprised if it had to do with that as well. This complex and my apartment specifically has had some issues with xfinity recently and thats the only internet provider that this complex supports for whaever reason.
 
That's not good - there is one possibility that while I've not had it, a friend has - he is usuing one of of those range extender things and basically using the home wiring to send network data along it - where in a different room, it gets isolated and gets sent out as wifi. I wonder if maybe this is being shared along your main power connection? It sounds possible - but if your mains wirubg is distributing data from somebody else on the line - it could be this? A bit of a longshot, to be fair?
 
rob aylestone said:
That's not good - there is one possibility that while I've not had it, a friend has - he is usuing one of of those range extender things and basically using the home wiring to send network data along it - where in a different room, it gets isolated and gets sent out as wifi. I wonder if maybe this is being shared along your main power connection? It sounds possible - but if your mains wirubg is distributing data from somebody else on the line - it could be this? A bit of a longshot, to be fair?
Click to expand...

Honestly I’m willing to believe it’s anything haha i very well could be related to this. I’m not sure how to check if it’s distributing data from someone else but I’ll go down the Google rabbit hole to see. I plan on reaching out to the maintenance team to see if they have any insight on this situation, but i have a feeling they’re going to be just as clueless as me
 
Since the noise seems to get in to everything I would suggest it is RFI. You might be in a "lobe" of a telemetry antenna? Some checks.
You say it comes through the monitors even with the rest of the gear switched 0ff? Is it still there with the monitor cables unplugged? If so make up some XLR or TRS jacks with the inputs shorted. If still there either the RF field strength is incredibly high (and therefore someone is being extremely naughty!) or it is coming through the mains wiring (could of course be RADIATED into the premise wiring)

If it is mains borne the only fix might be a 500va one to one mains isolating transformer with an inter-winding screen. That latter is vital. I know you have a mains 'conditioner but I have no idea what its RF 'stopping' ability is.

You might also like to befriend a local radio 'ham' or a CB shop? They are sure to have a scanner and can pin point the problem.

Dave.
 
Yeah i just tested and the noise is still there even with the TRS unplugged. I did some tests and used one of those iRig mobile interfaces, a new 1ft XLR, and one of the UA-SP1 pencil condensers and literally heard the noise through the whole apartment while walking around. It was worse in the studio room, but still. And it’s funny cuz we moved from one apartment to another down the courtyard and in the old apartment i was getting this noise, just not as intensely.

I also just wrapped everything in faraday paper and the only thing that stopped the noise was completely wrapping the microphone itself in the paper. So you’re right it likely is some intense RF
 
Thorfinn said:
Yeah i just tested and the noise is still there even with the TRS unplugged. I did some tests and used one of those iRig mobile interfaces, a new 1ft XLR, and one of the UA-SP1 pencil condensers and literally heard the noise through the whole apartment while walking around. It was worse in the studio room, but still. And it’s funny cuz we moved from one apartment to another down the courtyard and in the old apartment i was getting this noise, just not as intensely.

I also just wrapped everything in faraday paper and the only thing that stopped the noise was completely wrapping the microphone itself in the paper. So you’re right it likely is some intense RF
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I would get on the best Google Earth you can find and search for buildings that might have radio telemetry. A utility of some kind, gas, water, elec substation. Go outside and look for "Yagi" type antennas (google Yagi, they look like OUR UHF TV antennas but YMMV)

If it IS a utility (or deity forbid MILITARY!) there is probably nothing you can do about it unless the beam is off aim. All you can do is fit filters every 'kin where! Done a lot of that in me yoof.

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
I would get on the best Google Earth you can find and search for buildings that might have radio telemetry. A utility of some kind, gas, water, elec substation. Go outside and look for "Yagi" type antennas (google Yagi, they look like OUR UHF TV antennas but YMMV)

If it IS a utility (or deity forbid MILITARY!) there is probably nothing you can do about it unless the beam is off aim. All you can do is fit filters every 'kin where! Done a lot of that in me yoof.

Dave.
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Oh man we are fairly close to some government facilities… shoot haha. I’ll look around, but i fear I’ll have to put on my alien hat and cage everything off. I appreciate the response and will update the thread if anything comes up!
 

Used for slugs(don't stop 'em in my world. Lektrik does!) but not as costly as I thought. You could try a roll. Tell people its the latest cool interior vibe. In a few years it will acquire a nice patina! Oh and buy a rake of clip on ferrites but you might have to go inside some gear, monitors say, to fit filters.

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:

Used for slugs(don't stop 'em in my world. Lektrik does!) but not as costly as I thought. You could try a roll. Tell people its the latest cool interior vibe. In a few years it will acquire a nice patina! Oh and buy a rake of clip on ferrites but you might have to go inside some gear, monitors say, to fit filters.

Dave.
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Hahaha might as well at this point. But yea i just ordered some ferrites as well as a shure XLR interference filter that apparently is a thing so hopefully that solves the issue
 
I experienced a similar noise when my focusrite 18i8 was turned on but the computer turned off.
As soon as I then turned the computer on, it went away.

Also, if it is RF interference, it may be coming from one of your neighbours.
 
Slouching Raymond said:
I experienced a similar noise when my focusrite 18i8 was turned on but the computer turned off.
As soon as I then turned the computer on, it went away.

Also, if it is RF interference, it may be coming from one of your neighbours.
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Yeah unfortunately the noise doesn’t go away when i turn the computer back on. And yeah i wouldn’t be surprised. This is a relatively new thing that started happening and i know that it’s rare for this to be happening in general
 
Slouching Raymond said:
I experienced a similar noise when my focusrite 18i8 was turned on but the computer turned off.
As soon as I then turned the computer on, it went away.

Also, if it is RF interference, it may be coming from one of your neighbours.
Click to expand...
That's possible Ray but the field strength seems so strong that IMHO it must be a commercial source? Back 50 yrs ago in UK RFI was investigated by the GPO Interference Dept. I rode 'shotgun' with them a few times tracking down CB 'burners'.

Maybe there is a similar gov' dept at the OP's 'Ten Twenty'? We have long since lost ours...Bloody RF Wild West here!

Dave.
 
Thorfinn said:
Yeah unfortunately the noise doesn’t go away when i turn the computer back on. And yeah i wouldn’t be surprised. This is a relatively new thing that started happening and i know that it’s rare for this to be happening in general
Click to expand...
Any further developments friend?

Dave.
 
We do still have a team working from Baldock, but their work is prioritised heavily. They were in Lowestoft only a while back when people parking on a local car park could not get into their cars, or start them up. The local ford main dealer were being inundated with people asking for help. The AA towed one car and discovered it opened and started fine, when they were parked at the local owners garage. OFCOM, our version of the US FCC were contacted and sent somebody from Baldock who tracked it down to a malfunctioning marine navigation aid in the harbour. Turning it off, cured the car problems.
 
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