Drum room help!

[dwkman0117]

I think I see what you are saying though - more of the drum sound can come from the overhead, just use the close mics to accent.

do you add any reverb to your snare?

 

[NL5]

I think I see what you are saying though - more of the drum sound can come from the overhead, just use the close mics to accent.

do you add any reverb to your snare?

The snare has a small amount of plate added too it.

A couple other hints - especially when you get a lot of mics in the mix -

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=230537

Also, one way to really pump up the roominess and cymbal wash is to send the OH's and room mics (if you have them) on an aux to a comp and just squish the bejeezuz outta them. I use the UAD-1 1176 in the "all-in" mode, but any over the top type compression will work. Then just bring up the output of that channel to taste. I usually end up at about -12-14db, but that is really dependent on how hard your hitting the compressor, recording levels, etc.

 

[pandamonk]

I had a mic right on the snare, I just added reverb to it since I didn't care for the sound... it almost sounded like it was a peaked level or something... if that makes sense?

Maybe there was a peak. How was you gain set, and how is the mixer connected to you pc? I'd suggest losing the reverb on the snare and bringing down the level of the oh a bit.

Also, you could do with tightening up the snares, just a little, in my opinion. Are you miking the batter side of the snare?

I'd definitely recommend boosting the level and losing the reverb on the snare, bringing down the level of the oh a bit and placing it a bit further from the kit, bringing the drums out the corner, halving the amount of stuff in the kick drum(it's a little too dead), tuning the kit(although it's not terrible), and checking your gain levels to make sure nothing is peaking.

 

[pandamonk]

I think I see what you are saying though - more of the drum sound can come from the overhead, just use the close mics to accent.

do you add any reverb to your snare?

Yes, but cymbals should be quite low in the mix, a lot lower than you have them, so it's gotta be a good mix in the overhead, and then really accenting the drums.

 

[dwkman0117]

Maybe there was a peak. How was you gain set, and how is the mixer connected to you pc? I'd suggest losing the reverb on the snare and bringing down the level of the oh a bit.

Also, you could do with tightening up the snares, just a little, in my opinion. Are you miking the batter side of the snare?

I'd definitely recommend boosting the level and losing the reverb on the snare, bringing down the level of the oh a bit and placing it a bit further from the kit, bringing the drums out the corner, halving the amount of stuff in the kick drum(it's a little too dead), tuning the kit(although it's not terrible), and checking your gain levels to make sure nothing is peaking.

I just went through and made sure I was not peaking on the snare and kick - that should help. My mixer is connected via the card inputs - left main out to an input - right to another - then I have the OH via the audiobuddy then an input. the card is the delta 1010lt.
I will try to tighten up my snare - I am only miking the top side of the snare? do you suggest both?
I will also try taking some out of the kick.

thanks for the input - I will post a new version of my drums when I get them recorded..

 

[pandamonk]

I just went through and made sure I was not peaking on the snare and kick - that should help. My mixer is connected via the card inputs - left main out to an input - right to another - then I have the OH via the audiobuddy then an input. the card is the delta 1010lt.
I will try to tighten up my snare - I am only miking the top side of the snare? do you suggest both?
I will also try taking some out of the kick.

thanks for the input - I will post a new version of my drums when I get them recorded..

No, top side of snare should be enough. So, how many mics, pres/inputs do you have? Do you have 2 ohs? If not, you could use the tom mics to give stereo. Drums are nice in stereo.

I assume you have your behringer mixer and the audio buddy, which means 6pres, but only 5 outputs to the 1010lt.

Hmm ok. You could have your 3 toms and oh in2 the behringer and panned 1st tom a little left, 2nd tom middle/slightly right, and floor far right. Then oh centre. Set all the levels, and output to the 1010lt with the main left and right outputs. Then with the overhead, keep the main level fairly low but high on the aux(fx) send to another input of the 1010lt[will need a jack(TS)-phono(RCA) cable/adapter]. Then kick in2 the audiobuddy chnl 1 and snare chnl 2. This allows you the kick, snare, oh, and stereo toms to work with in the box(computer). Then you can output to the tape ins of the behri 1202 and out to your monitors. Just how i'd do it.

And when i say tighten your snare, i don't mean the head(although it could do with tuning). I mean the snares. And when you take the pillows(of whatever) out the kick, it'll probably need tuned. I'd suggest just a small pillow or large towel in the kick.

Can't wait to hear it.

 

[dwkman0117]

No, top side of snare should be enough. So, how many mics, pres/inputs do you have? Do you have 2 ohs? If not, you could use the tom mics to give stereo. Drums are nice in stereo.

I assume you have your behringer mixer and the audio buddy, which means 6pres, but only 5 outputs to the 1010lt.

Hmm ok. You could have your 3 toms and oh in2 the behringer and panned 1st tom a little left, 2nd tom middle/slightly right, and floor far right. Then oh centre. Set all the levels, and output to the 1010lt with the main left and right outputs. Then with the overhead, keep the main level fairly low but high on the aux(fx) send to another input of the 1010lt[will need a jack(TS)-phono(RCA) cable/adapter]. Then kick in2 the audiobuddy chnl 1 and snare chnl 2. This allows you the kick, snare, oh, and stereo toms to work with in the box(computer). Then you can output to the tape ins of the behri 1202 and out to your monitors. Just how i'd do it.

And when i say tighten your snare, i don't mean the head(although it could do with tuning). I mean the snares. And when you take the pillows(of whatever) out the kick, it'll probably need tuned. I'd suggest just a small pillow or large towel in the kick.

Can't wait to hear it.

Actually, I only use one of the Toms and the Floor tom... don't ask... I just like it that way, so that will reduce the number of mics by 1. I also can't wait to try it out that way... I should be getting my m177 mic today... so that is good...
thanks again for all of your help... I am somewhat happy with the other instrument sounds I have been getting, I just think that the drums are killing me - I always seem to be adding allot of reverb to them to make them sound decent.

thanks again

 

[pandamonk]

Actually, I only use one of the Toms and the Floor tom... don't ask... I just like it that way, so that will reduce the number of mics by 1. I also can't wait to try it out that way... I should be getting my m177 mic today... so that is good...
thanks again for all of your help... I am somewhat happy with the other instrument sounds I have been getting, I just think that the drums are killing me - I always seem to be adding allot of reverb to them to make them sound decent.

thanks again

Just pan the tom full left and floor full right, and you'll have them on separate tracks. Obviously there will be some bleed from the overhead, but this can't avoided with your post-fader aux(fx) send.

And don't be adding reverb until you're sure it needs it. You should have pretty good reverb from the room as it is. Get the good sound of drums in tracking, then tweak it later, don't try and fix it in the mix, because you won't be able to unless you replace the drum sounds.

 

[dwkman0117]

Just pan the tom full left and floor full right, and you'll have them on separate tracks. Obviously there will be some bleed from the overhead, but this can't avoided with your post-fader aux(fx) send.

And don't be adding reverb until you're sure it needs it. You should have pretty good reverb from the room as it is. Get the good sound of drums in tracking, then tweak it later, don't try and fix it in the mix, because you won't be able to unless you replace the drum sounds.

So far I stated recording just the kick tom and floor - it sounds really good - I put the kick through the beh mixer, tom and floor through the audio buddy - each close miked. The sound is really good - no reverb needed. I just got my new m177, so I am going to try to add the snare and then the overhead..

thanks again

 

[pandamonk]

So far I stated recording just the kick tom and floor - it sounds really good - I put the kick through the beh mixer, tom and floor through the audio buddy - each close miked. The sound is really good - no reverb needed. I just got my new m177, so I am going to try to add the snare and then the overhead..

thanks again

Glad to hear you like the sound. The reason i suggested putting the toms through the berhi with the overhead, is because to me the snare and kick are the most prominent, and important, for a good drum sound. With the toms, it doesn't matter if you get a bit of overhead bleed so much. Usually you work on kick and snare mostly, and then overheads then toms are usually left raw or changed slightly. Also, the audio buddy with probably be better pres than the behri mixer, so use that for kick and snare. But anyway, once you get the full kit recorded, let us hear

 

[dwkman0117]

Here is a sample of my recording - I have the following mic setup:
cad 4

kick
snare-close mic
tom - close

overhead-m177 - about 2 feet above the snare/cymbals

I added just a bit of reverb on the overall mix.. and para eq on each of them.

Let me know if it is sounding any better?

thanks

 

[pandamonk]

Here is a sample of my recording - I have the following mic setup:
cad 4

kick
snare-close mic
tom - close

overhead-m177 - about 2 feet above the snare/cymbals

I added just a bit of reverb on the overall mix.. and para eq on each of them.

Let me know if it is sounding any better?

thanks

Hmm, did you take stuff out the kick, still sounds pretty dead, not terrible though, could maybe to with a little more smack. I think the cymbals sound pretty good, and toms. I still don't like the snare. Maybe you need a new head. Is there a lot of muffling on the snare? If so, get rid of it all. The snare sounds like all snares, and no tone, that's why i think i suggested tightening the snares. In my opinion snare shud be like crack, and yours seems like phfft.

 

[dwkman0117]

Hmm, did you take stuff out the kick, still sounds pretty dead, not terrible though, could maybe to with a little more smack. I think the cymbals sound pretty good, and toms. I still don't like the snare. Maybe you need a new head. Is there a lot of muffling on the snare? If so, get rid of it all. The snare sounds like all snares, and no tone, that's why i think i suggested tightening the snares. In my opinion snare shud be like crack, and yours seems like phfft.

I did remove almost everything from the kick - I agree with you on the snare - I hate it. I was thinking about getting a new head - it currently has no muffle on it at all.. The snares are tight.
I agree that the cymbals sound much better than before - I need to tune the tom though - I just heard an odd tone..

 

[pandamonk]

I did remove almost everything from the kick - I agree with you on the snare - I hate it. I was thinking about getting a new head - it currently has no muffle on it at all.. The snares are tight.
I agree that the cymbals sound much better than before - I need to tune the tom though - I just heard an odd tone..

I like the tom, and i think the snare from hitching a ride sounds better. If you could get that sound from your snare and the placement you have now, i think you'd be onto a winner.

But even comparing hitching a ride with NL5's snare, how duz he get that sound?!! a lovely crack, just perfect!! Infact the parts in hitching a ride where it's a standard beat and not all on snare sound pretty good. Sounds like the drummer(you?) is hitting it harder, and it has a better crack to it.

And maybe you should remove everything from the kick... Might not sound great from where you are playing it, but it'll probably sound better in recording. I think it just needs a little more smack to it. Like NL5's. Experiment with placement, maybe putting the mic to the batter side, or if your kick has a hole, put the mic in and right up to the batter head.

 

[NL5]

WAY better than before!

Is the verb on the snare gated? It sounds like the snare from "those shoes". Sounds kinda like a fake 80's snare.

Do you have a felt beater on the kick? It sounds pretty "woompy". I'd loosen it a bit and get a hard plastic headed or wood beater.


Also, I'd bring the OH mic up another foot, maybe two.....

 

[pandamonk]

WAY better than before!

Is the verb on the snare gated? It sounds like the snare from "those shoes". Sounds kinda like a fake 80's snare.

Do you have a felt beater on the kick? It sounds pretty "woompy". I'd loosen it a bit and get a hard plastic headed or wood beater.


Also, I'd bring the OH mic up another foo, maybe two.....

Do you use wood or plastic?!! AHHH brilliant, i know how to get a good sound. I've struggled with this too. I'm an idiot, it's pretty obvious

 

[NL5]

But even comparing hitching a ride with NL5's snare, how duz he get that sound?!!.

It's a lot of things. I have a very large VERY live sounding room. I set up the OH's so the middle of the snare is EXACTLY the same distance to each mic's capsule. The OH's are generally 6 feet above the snare. I have very good OH mics and a great preamp. The drummers snare in that sample sounded great in the room, and he played it well. I get the majority of the sound from the OH's, and in this instance blended in a little heavy metal snare a la Andy Sneap into the snare track.

Here is that sample mixed into some drum tracks as well. Same room, same OH set-up, but a different drummer playing different snare.(I only recorded the drums, and it's just a rough mix, but you'll get the idea)

 

[pandamonk]

It's a lot of things. I have a very large VERY live sounding room. I set up the OH's so the middle of the snare is EXACTLY the same distance to each mic's capsule. The OH's are generally 6 feet above the snare. I have very good OH mics and a great preamp. The drummers snare in that sample sounded great in the room, and he played it well. I get the majority of the sound from the OH's, and in this instance blended in a little heavy metal snare a la Andy Sneap into the snare track.

Here is that sample mixed into some drum tracks as well. Same room, same OH set-up, but a different drummer playing different snare.(I only recorded the drums, and it's just a rough mix, but you'll get the idea)

I think this sounds great too. The drummer has a hell of a lot to do with the sound, as well as the room, and the tuning. I think the snare sits really well in your recording.

 

[NL5]

I think this sounds great too. The drummer has a hell of a lot to do with the sound, as well as the room, and the tuning.

That was what I was trying to say - LOL. I was trying to also say that the sample really is minimal in the actual sound. I can and have gotten the same sound with the actual snare track, but using the sample just makes it quicker and easier - and is really maybe 25% of the actual sound........

 

[pandamonk]

That was what I was trying to say - LOL. I was trying to also say that the sample really is minimal in the actual sound. I can and have gotten the same sound with the actual snare track, but using the sample just makes it quicker and easier - and is really maybe 25% of the actual sound........

Yeah I know. But I always like to get a good sound from the kit, instead of replacing or using a sample along with. But yeah, I'm naive, and haven't ever experienced long nights trying over and over to get a sound that i just can't get, so i suppose my opinion will change with experience.