Do you really buy that expensive recording software?

[NDL]

Digi now has support for XP. MOTU never had support for ANY windows platform with Digital Performer, and they never will, but I think they have another program (AudioDesk?) for Windows.

MOTU has audiodesk --I run XP Pro with a MOTU 234 card and have never had a problem-

Magix (which also makes samplitude) had a decent program out for under a 100 bucks --its better than N0tracks which I also like.........

 

[viva_zapata74]

since I read Nietzsche....

I have no morals. The only case in which I would cough up the bucks is if I am out to make an official album and my studio has a VAT number. This is NOT the case, since I am an amateur. Therefore, yes, I do download the hell of a lot of music software for my own educational sake

 

[viva_zapata74]

I think what he's trying to say is...

I missed no points. The fact that the "poor person little guy student" can't afford it and so would never buy it any is completely irrelevant. You steal the software you're stealing from the software company because the right to use the software they create is what they sell to make the money they use to survive. End of story. Pirating software is theft of service.

I'm done for now. I've had so much fun pointing out the obvious holes in your arguments and providing example after example of how you're wrong it should be as illegal as the practices you think you can defend. How you guys got so spun up about this is beyond me, but I've had a blast baiting you just to see what nonsense you'd come up with next. You've never failed to come up with something more rediculous than the last time you posted.

with all due respect, I think what Dave here is trying to say is "the law is the law", and that's about it. That said, it should be pretty obvious that any attempt to dialectically come to an agreement or work out our differences is like fitting an elevator in a barn: utterly useless.
And now, I go back to my stolen Reason and Logic ;-)
if you put us all in jail because we have one or two "stolen" programs, who will work for the boss who cuts our paychecks? Too much rope and gallows in the air, ladies and gentlemen

 

[Projbalance]

There are always better ways to secure software and the programmers know this. yet they choose not to engage in such practices. I would venture that the software companies even invite and expect a certain amount of piracy; at least the ones with any brains. You do a couple of things that way; first off, the smart ones read the message boards and find out whos bitching about what. It's like having a huge bank of product testers out there that you don't have to pay for. You get all kinds of feedback and critiques from these people, and they take that and they make better software. Secondly, those who use pirated software usually end up becoming customers. I'm not talking about the people who do the reverse engineering and cracking, just the end users who download the stuff. I've never met anyone who chooses to use cracked or pirated software if they have the money to buy it. So in many ways, the financial issue does hold relevance. The companies only stand to gain customers from piracy, if the software is quality. I would also guess that, for he most part, if you're looking for pirated software then you probably didn't have the money to begin with, so no the software companies don't lose customers. Most of the time these users do end up buying the newer versions of the software when they have the money to do so. Thirdly, many of these companies don't make the real money from individual sales; they make it on multiple licenses and corporate sales. Sure there is money in retail and individual sales, but who do you think generates more revenue for, say, Microsoft; the public who buys copies of XP Home, or the corporations who buy hundreds of licenses for XP Pro? You also have to factor in OEM deals and Corporate contracts and development deals. It's not as simple as it sounds.

How often can you get a cracked piece of software as soon as it's released forsale? It take stime to crack, reverse engineer, write keygenerators; and it takes forever for the programs to be dissemninated to the point where they are easily obtainable. I would suggest that the software companies don't lose much because most pirated programs are out of date versions to begin with. The companies don't sell them anymore, and by the time the cracked version of the new stuff gets around, their new product has already been on the market and making them money.

How many peopel do you know that could find pirated software? How many people do you know that know where or how to look or even what it means to lok for it? This is not like something as simple as MP3 distribution, it can't be done over IM or through E-Mail. It's not as simple as it sounds. And thought you may look around this board and see the number of computer saavy people about, bear in min that we represent a very small percentage of computer users in the world. I seriously doubt anyones grandmother is sitting in front of her computer installing that cracked version of ProTools LE. Also, this is not the same thing as walking in a store and running of with a box; the color of that world is decidedly more black and white. plus, ther has to be a strange area of law when it comes to warez; if the software isn't stolen, if you arent the one who cracked it or reverse engineered it, then maybe you break one of two rules; you are part of a redistribution scheme (which is always grey with software anyway) or you are violating the terms of service agreement (and since no one reads those anyway, who the hell knows).

This issue is not as simple as, "If you use it you're wrong", other wise the law would be more clear and the software companies would be clamping down like the RIAA and the MPAA. I read more about the re-distrubution of software in pirated hard copy in eastern Asia then I do about the Software companies kvetching about warez. So maybe the issue is twisted around more than some people know.

 

[dementedchord]

pirate your porn not your music..... this wonderfull tech used to be available only to the megga studios now every ass with a karaoke machine thinks hes a pro.... sic

 

[X man Da Legend]

Why buy the expensive copy? U can get most of ur work done on the stripped down cheaper version just fine. Fuck the bells and whistles gimme a input and some good fx or the ability to import other fx and im good

 

[legionserial]

I don't make money from anything apart from my job. And funnily enough, thats about the only thing I don't pay money for.

Last time I checked, sitting on my ass watching TV didn't make me any money. That doesn't mean I can go steal myself a new TV...

So "Its not hurting anyone" eh?

It cost me £500 to buy cubase, and thats just the tip of the iceberg. There are so many people pirating software these days, that it is pretty obvious to me that if everyone bought the software, the companies may well be able to significantly drop the price. So in other words, I payed money for someone else to get a free copy of Cubase. And I don't even know the guy...what did he ever do for me?

And when a division of a software company isn't meeting its financial targets, the big man at the top will have no problems laying people off. So the pirates have probly cost a few people their jobs. Those developers work ridiculously hard at making that software. Probably harder than a lot of us work on our music or in fact anything...and what...because the 'moral arbiter' says "those people make too much money", an opinion based on probably nothing...the dev, for his efforts, dedication, and a passion that must inevitably come with that kind of work, loses his job, and has to deal with the possible prospect of no income and not being able to feed his wife and kids.

Yeah nice one...

 

[The don]

i couldn`t agree more with projbalance
well you download a prog you couldn`t buy...you get to know it...you like it...you get fed up with its unstable behavior...and you end up saving money 6 month...and you buy it!!
you do not like it? you drop it...
There would always be some "smart" guys who wil use warez soft...But sometimes companies provoke piracy...they should reconsider in some cases the price for what they offer...
I sympathize some people who cannot afford some software and use it as a warez for their personal use...But i surely get sick with people who can afford them easily...and even more when get payed using them....

 

[choctaw]

Situational Ethics....has no morals.

But I follow Shackrock when he tells he uses crackz to get to know programs and buy what he think is suitable for him.

Yeah.....Right, then how about using someone’s wife to get to know the program, then getting one of your own.

At first taking some little thing seems like nothing, then it gets bigger and bigger and you think nothing about taking anything you want. It comes under situational ethics. No value is put on moral issues, if it feels good do it.

Choctaw

 

[Emusic]

We mostly pay for a licence to use software. So the less people that buys licences, the more to pay for them that does.
Cry me a river about how you think it aint theft. It still is in my eyes.
Not one of my music programs is a pirated/cracked version.
If I cant afford it, I dont use it.

 

[Aonaran]

I do both. I'd rather see what a program is like and I decide if it's worth buying, because let's be honest, sometimes you spend money things are utter shit.

I actually bought Reason 3 without trying it first though, apart from the standard 30 minute demo, but it was recommended to me by a guy I know. I'd also tried getting my hands on it through illegal ways but got bored of it never being the proprer program.

I think it was money well spent though, even though I don't use it as often as I should and have still got shitloads to learn with it.

I've had it since January and I don't think I'm even past the basics with it yet, lol.

All in good time, I'm sure

 

[choctaw]

I do both. I'd rather see what a program is like and I decide if it's worth buying, because let's be honest.


Yeah.....lets be as you say " honest " which would include not stealing software or anything else.

 

[Emusic]

I do both. I'd rather see what a program is like and I decide if it's worth buying, because let's be honest, sometimes you spend money things are utter shit.

Thats why they have demo versions. To this date I have never bought a music program that wasnt worth having. Read reviews and try demos. That way its easy to stay away from the few bad releases.

 

[Toker41]

I"ve yet to see a demo that wasnt' buggy, or so limited that it was useless. You can't tell if a program is any good if you can't spend a decent amount of time with it.

 

[Emusic]

That has - since 1986 - not been a problem for me, when getting my music editing software. Read reviews.

 

[Toker41]

2) If you are using the rationalization that you need to download a crack to demo it, your just fooling yourself. I seriously doubt your going to be a diligent person and not "accidently" use it a few more times. If you really need to demo a piece of software, believe me, there are ways to get a legite copy/demo.


BTW, did you know that Warez sites are tracked? If you've downloaded off that site there is a very good chance you are recorded somewhere. The question is if you are doing it enough to be prosicuted. It's called evidence.

You assume a lot about people, and seem to suspect that everyone is a bad person if given the chance.
A lot of demo's are to crippled and buggy to be of any use. If I'm going to by a $50,000 car, I'm going to drive it for a while first. They don't give you 8 times to press the break, and limit your speed to 30 mph, while giving an audio blip every 30 seconds when trying the radio. If I'm going to buy a $500 program I want a full trial run to make sure it's worth every penny of my hard earned money, as I do not sit at a computer all day, I break my back to feed my family, and $500, even $300 is a lot of money to me. Strange fact that never gets mentioned in these debates is once you open the software you can't return it if you don't like it, or it's no good. I don't know of any retail store that will refund your money if the program isn't what you wanted, or is buggy no matter how many updates you do. Sometimes it just doesn't like your system. Fact is ANY time you buy software, it is a risk that it will work without problem or conflict.
I used cracks of a few programs before settling on the one that I liked and thought was worth the money. I spent time with each one, just as I would with any guitar, or piece of gear before buying it. Hours. Sometimes revisiting it over days. After deciding as a now educated consumer, I payed for the one I liked, and I deleted the ones I didn't pay for. Thus, using cracked software help the sale of the program I decided on, and did not hurt anyone. Not everyone is a thief. Not all that is illegal is evil. There are many people employed because of the piracy issues. There are people who's sole job is to design the protection software.
A recent Harvard study shows that illegal downloading of music has not had any significant impact on CD sales, and suggest that it may even be helping sales. Most people surveyed claimed they would not have bought the songs anyway, if the could not have gotten them for free. It goes on to state that many said that after downloading a song or two by an artist, they often bought the CD where they might not have if they had not heard the downloaded songs. I do not see why the same would not apply to the software industry. Fact is most cracked software is buggy, and limited to updates and fixes. They get frustrating in time, and most people are forced to eventually buy the program, or lose whatever work they have in the cracked version. I believe if you read enough threads and post on this site you will find this to be the Truth.

Wow, so you are a software engineer? I would think that with all your misspellings and typos that some of your demo's might be buggy, but I could be wrong, as I do not like to assume bad things about people unless I have walked in their shoes.
Also, who the hell uses Warez sites anymore? Guess your out of touch with the whole P2P program thing these days, huh?
What kind of software is it you engineer, anyway?

 

[Robert D]

Toker,
Man! I can't believe you've read your own posts on this topic this many times for this long, and your still not tired of reapeating this dribble? It's like watching some guy in the year 1600 devoting his life to standing in the village square trying to convince people the world really is flat. No, wait... it's like listening to Bush co declaring global warming a fraud, because 2 conservative scientists employed by Haliburton say so. No, wait.... it's like Cheney still insisting he was right that the insurgency was in it's last throes, and still is. No wait, it's like Ronald McDonald turning hiphop! It's just so wrong!!!

 

[Toker41]

First off...
let me say that I like your views on the current Administration. However, a topic for another thread, and I play in a different cave.

Now that you posted that, I have gone back to re-read a lot of this post. This thread is old, and so are my last post. I argue this same debate on more than one site, and after that amount of time, have no idea what I've said on what site, as I am a regular on a number. So, you will have to forgive me if I stumble onto a thread and can't remember what I posted on it more than a year ago. That being said, even if I did repeat it, the guy clearly stated that he read through "most" of this thread, leaving open the possibility that he did not get to my post, or did not read them completely. I felt that he included everyone in his "self fooling non-diligent" theory, and thought I should point out some holes in it. Plus, I brought some new points and comparisons.

My points are valid, and I would not call it dribble simply because you disagree.

I got one! It's like Bush supporters still insisting there are WMD's in Iraq, and we just haven't found them yet, or they hid them in Syria, or "there just not releasing it", even when Bush himself has stated that he was "wrong".

Wait, wait...I got another one...It's like Bush supporters insisting the the fact that the V.P. of the U.S.A. being the C.E.O. of Halliburton, and the potential for Halliburton to make billions of dollars on a questionable war is not a conflict of interest for the V.P., and has nothing to do with the reason we went to war.

Damn, I just read through some more of this thread. This was the site with the feedback bullshit. That's why I stopped coming here. Although it's funny reading it now. I'm gonna go blast everyone that doesn't think the way I do....hehe. Wow, some pretty judgmental people on the "nay" side. Thread was bait from the beginning.

 

[musicstew]

Buy it, the brilliant folks that work so hard to design these programs also deserve to get paid.

 

[episg]

A- You can get good stuff these days anyway at a low price
B- Pirated stuff is usually BOLLOCKS because it never works properly.

and also. with the whole burnt CD issue, i have a good lot of burnt cd's. Usually cos i dont want to scratch the real deal in the car or i dont wana buy it in case its crap (if it's good i buy it).I also burn off a copy for myself if it's a rare cd, and i dont want to lose it. Most of the albums floating around in my car are burnt ones that i already have the real copy at home. I dont like not having album art etc.

BUT i HATE the idea of pirating small band's CD's cos they need the money more than bigger bands!

PS, couldnt agree more musicstew.