distortedrumble
all up in yo grill!
wait a minute.....whats the copyright laws in austria? it could be legal there...not moral but could be legal
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ron82
New member
i dunno why my argument is weak.
the comparisons u guys put up make it clear that u didnt read what i said..
when i steal a car it is an especially manufactured product. a software is created once, no matter how many ppl use it, u just have to write it once.
same for the les paul example..
and about stealing my songs, that can even less b compared to this, because u would steal the private work of someone which wasnt even meant to b published..
i hope i didnt offend anyone tho, i love this board and dont post to make enemies.. but keep ur contra opinions about my views going, i'm always open-minded and like to learn, which i will eventually in the process
i do understand when ppl get mad at guys like me downloading software, but i have yet to be convinced about what is bad about this kind of piracy (the way i do it). i for one see unwritten laws violated day by day in the news, and not only there, and it r those who keep collapsing our world, not the little freedom i allow myself, which is harming NO one.
PS:
no its not legal here hehe
the comparisons u guys put up make it clear that u didnt read what i said..
when i steal a car it is an especially manufactured product. a software is created once, no matter how many ppl use it, u just have to write it once.
same for the les paul example..
and about stealing my songs, that can even less b compared to this, because u would steal the private work of someone which wasnt even meant to b published..
i hope i didnt offend anyone tho, i love this board and dont post to make enemies.. but keep ur contra opinions about my views going, i'm always open-minded and like to learn, which i will eventually in the process
i do understand when ppl get mad at guys like me downloading software, but i have yet to be convinced about what is bad about this kind of piracy (the way i do it). i for one see unwritten laws violated day by day in the news, and not only there, and it r those who keep collapsing our world, not the little freedom i allow myself, which is harming NO one.
PS:
no its not legal here hehe
Moonrider
New member
ron82 said:and about stealing my songs, that can even less b compared to this, because u would steal the private work of someone which wasnt even meant to b published..
Who said anything about stealing your songs? What *I* said was:
Moonrider said:
You're not willing to LET me use YOUR creations, the result of YOUR hard work, and YOUR time, for MY benefit? Why not?
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ron82
New member
because its not only my work and time, but also my personal thoughts and feelings that i express in my songs; i dont understand how u can compare that to a software, which does not have any sentimental value but is merely meant to serve a specific purpose..Moonrider said:
acidrock
GO PACKERS!
People who try to rationalise stealing software are morally bankrupt morons.
It's the license to use it that you pay for.
It's a law that you must pay for it.
If the law changed there would be no new software coming out and all tech support would cease.
There's plenty of freeware out there to be had...but surprise,it usually is'nt as good as the stuff honest people pay for.
There will always be a segment of society that leeches off the rest and tries to rationalise it.
It's the license to use it that you pay for.
It's a law that you must pay for it.
If the law changed there would be no new software coming out and all tech support would cease.
There's plenty of freeware out there to be had...but surprise,it usually is'nt as good as the stuff honest people pay for.
There will always be a segment of society that leeches off the rest and tries to rationalise it.
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ron82
New member
and there will always be the society, which will blindly accept laws, no matter how much true value they contain. if i do something that doesn't harm anyone, i couldn't care less about what the ever confused law says. like i said, if i couldnt get software for free i wouldnt buy it, so how am i harming the company, or anyone else? that is the only essential fact. it's just a matter of thinking urself, rather than believing what the society says is morally acceptable, and what not.acidrock said:
acidrock
GO PACKERS!
ron82 said:
That's what hillbillies say about incest.
It would sure be nice to pick and choose the laws that fit my needs,but I live in a democratic society which says I must respect the needs of the whole of society rather than my own selfish needs.
Gee,I can steal a BMW,but I sure in the hell would'nt buy one....
What you have'nt adressed is the person(s) who spends all their time designing this software.They should be compensated for it.If you don't think the price is right,then don't buy it.I think a lot of things are overpriced,but I don't go stealing them.
I don't work for free and I don't think you do either.
Blue Bear Sound
New member
All I can say is that our buddy ron82 here appears to be one of the more clueless fuckwits on this site.........
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randyfromde
New member
Wrong.
The software has value to you, otherwise you wouldn't have stolen it and you wouldn't be using it. The only way to use it legally is to license it from the developer for the amount they ask.
Bingo.
I think most of the people here saying it's okay are the same type of person who believes socialism is the way America should be. Take what you need, contribute what you can. It's true, that system gives everyone an equal share. Unfortunately, human dictates that that equal share gives everyone nothing.
DaveO
New member
ron82 said:
Why is your argument weak? It's weak beacuse your statement implies that it cost Cakewalk $400 to create SONAR so once they've sold the first copy they made their money back and it's all profit. You've clearly shown you don't understand what it means or be in and stay in business.
Cakewalk spent millions of dollars developing SONAR and the price you pay is what they need to cover the cost of all that development and their profit. You know, things like salaraies, benefits, rent on their facility, the water bill, electric bill, computers for their developers, etc., etc., etc. They have a huge capital investment in it and need that price to recoup it based on the number of units they expect to sell. If they can't get that price, then they either raise it and hope to not lose many sales or they find a way to cut costs so they can still survive as a company on what they can get per copy. If they can't, then Cakewalk goes out of business.
And guess what? You were completely Gibson beacuse they have THE SAME issues for their Les Pauls. Ford has it for their Tauruses, Campbell's has it for their vegetable soup, Crest has it for their toothpaste, Kotex has it for their tampons, etc., etc., etc. Your argument that an "especially manufactured product", whatever the hell that is, is different is just a steamy load of horse shit.
Are you really that big an idiot, thinking the cost to Cakewalk for the copy you stole is the $1 it cost for the CD, label, and jewel box?!?! You missed the mark making a valid argument. All you did was offer a weak excuse for being lazy, dishonest, and cheap. Blue Bear was right ...
Moonrider
New member
ron82 said:
You've never written software have you? Anything more than the simplest procedure requires a whole lot of work, and as much or more time and emotional investment as crafting a good song.
You expect people to give that to you, and you aren't willing to reciprocate?
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ron82
New member
of course they should, and they are by the ppl who buy it. and sooner or later i WILL buy their software, if i use it alot and/or for my work. and if its a good software, there WILL be enough ppl buying it because of this reason.
i actually do in some aspects, but im not going into detail now because i dont need to defend my opinions with arguments like that.
and all i can say is that for me THAT is morally not acceptable, to insult and hate people. it may be wrong for u what i'm doing but thats not a reason to hate me. thats the root of war my friend.
yes i want to use it, but if i couldnt get it for free i would just use one of the freeware programs - indeed, i often paid a voluntary amount for these programs cause THOSE r the developers who really need to be valved, not the big business. sure the business needs money as well but like i said, good software will be bought.
no i'm not that big an idiot, but i've said it before and i'll say it again, good software WILL be bought. i buy good software when i use it all the time and when i can afford it.
actually i have, freeware. and i'm a freelance web developer/designer, so i'm a programmer, i DO know how much work it is to write a program. but i also know how much ppl work on "big" programs, and can guess how much less time/effort it will be to create this or that software.
other than that, it doesnt have anything to do with a song, which is (or used to be) the creative expression of an individual without a purpose (real art).
this will be my last post on the subject, because i'm not willing to discuss with people that will see my as stupid fuck and whose primar aim is to insult me or make fun of me.
in contrast to some guys who commented on me my respect for everyone here is equally big as it was before, it's sad that aggressiveness and hate is always the only emotion for ppl when they face conflicts.
once again, i'm buying software when i like it and use it alot, and when i can afford it, and i'm not blindly stealing anything i get my hands on just for the fun of it. those of u who think they have to hate me for it, please do so if it helps u to absorb ur aggressiveness and strengthens ur ego.
Blue Bear Sound
New member
Who said anything about hating you? I called you a clueless fuckwit because IMO, that's the type of person you appear to be based on the content of your posts..............
I don't hate you, you'd have to have more relevance to me than simply being some moron on the web with no value system for you to be worth hating.
I don't hate you, you'd have to have more relevance to me than simply being some moron on the web with no value system for you to be worth hating.
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ron82
New member
theres a difference between me and u: for me there no "types of persons", just individual opinions/problems.Blue Bear Sound said:
theres another difference, for me there is no "nobody".
and incase u dont notice, i declared my friendship (or lets call it being neutreal-minded because i'm sure u dont want to call me ur friend) towards u, who insulted me, and u reply with more sarcasm.
someday u will maybe get to know that disrespect is one of the biggest crimes, and that all social differences r based upon that.
until then have fun being so much better than me.
DaveO
New member
You can tell a let about the kind of man someone is when you see how he behaves when he "knows" he won't get caught and also by the way he treats someone who do neither nothing to or for him. I'm not the one saying anything about you, I'm just pointing it out. You're the one who's speaking volumes about yourself.
You say "disrespect is one of the biggest crimes". What about your lack of respect for the companies you steal from?!?! GMAFB
You say "disrespect is one of the biggest crimes". What about your lack of respect for the companies you steal from?!?! GMAFB
lpdeluxe
The Precision Bass Guy
Bruce has nailed Ron82. Can we change Mr Ron's user name permanently to Clueless Fuckwit? Or do you think everyone who reads his posts will be able to figure that out?
I worked for the Social Security Administration until I retired a couple of years ago. I can't tell you how many people [excuse me, Ron, I meant to say "ppl"] would tell any kind of lie if they thought it meant they'd get their hands on more "government" money. I'm not saying it made me cynical, maybe a just little bit skeptical. Any time I hear a self-serving rationalization coming from someone too lazy or useless to do their part my tear ducts dry right up. 99% of the persons I dealt with I would trust with anything...but there was that other 1%, and, Ron82, you have enlisted in that select army.
I worked for the Social Security Administration until I retired a couple of years ago. I can't tell you how many people [excuse me, Ron, I meant to say "ppl"] would tell any kind of lie if they thought it meant they'd get their hands on more "government" money. I'm not saying it made me cynical, maybe a just little bit skeptical. Any time I hear a self-serving rationalization coming from someone too lazy or useless to do their part my tear ducts dry right up. 99% of the persons I dealt with I would trust with anything...but there was that other 1%, and, Ron82, you have enlisted in that select army.
vestast
Gassy Member
Ron82 - Your arguments still don't make any sense at all. I'll repeat what's already been said over and over again. Stealing is Stealing. You're trying to make yourself feel better about it by justifying it with useless arguments.
We are not talking about some outdated, "no eating ice cream on Sunday's" law here. You ARE harming someone. Us. YOU are part of the reason why WE have to pay more money for the software that we buy. And you wonder why you're getting called a fuck wit ?
That same "confused law" is supposed to protect you also if you ever have enough talent to produce a song that the rest of us just might decide to claim as our own...
Bruce is right...
We are not talking about some outdated, "no eating ice cream on Sunday's" law here. You ARE harming someone. Us. YOU are part of the reason why WE have to pay more money for the software that we buy. And you wonder why you're getting called a fuck wit ?
That same "confused law" is supposed to protect you also if you ever have enough talent to produce a song that the rest of us just might decide to claim as our own...
Bruce is right...
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ron82
New member
ok guys, i accept that my arguments dont make sense to u, u dont have to insult me for it anymore (but keep going if u cant do any other way, seems as u would really need it)
i sometimes forget that i cant just open my mind to the general public, since the roots of my thoughts are based on a general disagreement with social disorder and everything that grew upon it since the man began to think (the wrong way).
u can think about me whatever u like, whatever makes u happy.
sorry for causing so much inconvinience.
°listens to john lennon's "imagine" and fades away to guarantee everyone's satisfaction°
i sometimes forget that i cant just open my mind to the general public, since the roots of my thoughts are based on a general disagreement with social disorder and everything that grew upon it since the man began to think (the wrong way).
u can think about me whatever u like, whatever makes u happy.
sorry for causing so much inconvinience.
°listens to john lennon's "imagine" and fades away to guarantee everyone's satisfaction°
DaveO
New member
Allowing a software manufacturer to continue as a going concern, and therefore provide it's employees with a way to earn (note the deliberate use of the word *EARN*) a living is social disorder and thinking the wrong way?!?!?! WTF?!?!?!
Why do you allow Gibson and its employees to make a living? I know the reason. It's because if you get caught stealing one of their guitars from a music store you'll be prosecuted. You steal software because it's easy and you know you can get away with it. I can't believe anyone would do something as absurd as citing "Imagine" as a rationale for theft. John Lennon must be spinning in his grave ...
When you decide you'll continue to do what you do for a living while refusing to ever collect money for your work again then maybe you'll have some credibility. Until then, you really don't have any, BUDDY.
There. I ended on a friendly note ......
Why do you allow Gibson and its employees to make a living? I know the reason. It's because if you get caught stealing one of their guitars from a music store you'll be prosecuted. You steal software because it's easy and you know you can get away with it. I can't believe anyone would do something as absurd as citing "Imagine" as a rationale for theft. John Lennon must be spinning in his grave ...
When you decide you'll continue to do what you do for a living while refusing to ever collect money for your work again then maybe you'll have some credibility. Until then, you really don't have any, BUDDY.
There. I ended on a friendly note ......
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acidrock
GO PACKERS!
Another lame argument.If you work for free it's your choice,you can't decide for other people whether or not they work for free.
You stole software and denied the developers their compensation,that is really disrespectful.
They don't make sense to anyone.
That's what demo versions are for.
It's pathetic when guys can buy gear but all of a sudden they have no money when it's time to buy software.
Quit trying to turn the tables on everyone and accuse them of hate and disrespect,you're the one who did something wrong.These people are trying to defend the developers AND the purchasers of software even though they have no financial stake in it themselves.
You come off as very selfish and lacking a moral compass.Maybe someday the tables will be turned and you will see the light.
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