rory
New member
soundchaser59 said:
Yep, you're right.
Yep, you're right.
B
Big Kenny
New member
Codmate said:
I don't believe you....
J
johnny5dm
New member
Codmate said:
No, I don't believe everything in the Bible, from the preacher, or from anyone without question. I believe God gave us a brain and meant for us to use it, so I do.
For now, though, you have shown no willingness to consider any view but yours to this point in the discussion, and you have insulted multiple people on this board without provocation. You may be "free thinking" about everything else in the world, but unless you are willing to freely consider the topic at hand, there is really no point in discussing this with you.
So, that in mind, if you'd be willing to OPENLY, HONESTLY, and CIVILLY discuss THIS TOPIC (that means WITHOUT insulting people in nearly every post), let me know. Otherwise, I'm out... I'll catch all of you on the rest of the threads!
Double
New member
Lord safe me from your followers.
B
Big Kenny
New member
Double said:
You are safed!
F
faderbug
.
rayc said:
awesome!!! i have three 60's - 70's aria's, also made in japan. one 'strat' one short scale 'mustang' and a diamond series hollow body short scale bass.
they're all full of issues but i love those guitars!!!
rory
New member
Big Kenny said:
If this is a joke I find it utterly hilarious!
G
ggunn
Crystal Flavolian
johnny5dm said:
You guys really need to come to grips with the fact that neither of you will ever convince the other of anything. To each of you the other appears to have his mind made up with no room for debate, and you're both correct, since neither side can claim proof of his POV. Religion either makes sense to you or it doesn't, and neither of you will ever scale the wall to get to the other side. Neither side can claim the high road relative to the other; neither is what the other defines as "open minded", despite how you seem that way to yourself.
I'm not trying to claim the high road for myself; I'm not "open minded", either. I don't think anyone really is, the way you are defining it.
Double
New member
Big Kenny said:
Thanks Big Kenny I needed that. Bow down to the church of Big Kenny.
J
johnny5dm
New member
ggunn said:
I'm totally open to discussing it and questioning my views; I just ask the same thing from the opposing party. Are my views pretty defined? Yeah, you coud probably say they are. Am I willing to question them and offer them up for discussion? Yes. Am I completely open-minded to everything out there? No, but I'll at least give it some thought and due respect without insulting the other party for not believing exactly as I do.
I don't think that's too much to ask.
S
soundchaser59
Reluctant Commander
It's amazing how differently people behave and talk when they dont have to look you in the eye! The monitor and keyboard can hide a lot....but not all.
G
ggunn
Crystal Flavolian
johnny5dm said:
I looked back through this thread and I don't see where anyone insulted you. IMO, you should separate the comments about the opinions you espouse from personal criticism of yourself. I think that one should not engage folks whose views are diametrically opposed in debates/arguments of subjects like this with unless one can take the heat.
F
faderbug
.
this is enough guys!!!!
pick up your guitar and play !!!
pick up your guitar and play !!!
G
ggunn
Crystal Flavolian
rayc said:
No offense intended, but that is some bugly guitar, IMO. ;^)
rayc
retroreprobate
Fader,
Aria produced some very similar to mine. It was a bit af a job lot I think. Aria have some very fine individual pieces. It's all luck with guitars of that era, but I've been lucky. Lucky fellow you with your collection. There was a lot more craftmanship put into mass produced cottage industry guitars in those days I feel.
ggun,
No offense taken. 'tis in the eye of the beholder after all. I think it's gorgeous, so non symmetrical et al.
Aria produced some very similar to mine. It was a bit af a job lot I think. Aria have some very fine individual pieces. It's all luck with guitars of that era, but I've been lucky. Lucky fellow you with your collection. There was a lot more craftmanship put into mass produced cottage industry guitars in those days I feel.
ggun,
No offense taken. 'tis in the eye of the beholder after all. I think it's gorgeous, so non symmetrical et al.
J
johnny5dm
New member
ggunn said:
I have no problem taking the heat if it's worth it.
I also can appreciate your opinion about separating comments about my opinions from personal criticism - I think that's more a matter of personal identification with something.
If you were (hypothetically - no implication on your political views) a very patriotic American, and someone started ripping on America left and right, would you not take some offense?
On the plus side, I do appreciate your comments - they are things for me to think about, and you've stated them tactfully, so... yeah, thanks.
Double
New member
Maybe that's a good thing SC.soundchaser59 said:
G
ggunn
Crystal Flavolian
johnny5dm said:
Well, is it?
johnny5dm said:
Sure, it might rile me, but I would not interpret it as a personal attack. There's a big difference between someone attacking your views (which is fair game if you put them out here on an internet board) and attacking you personally (which I hope we've agreed to refrain from on this forum). One thing that will consistently draw fire is to state something as fact which is a matter of opinion or dispute.
Seriously, this whole thread, or most of it anyway, belongs in the Cave.
Double
New member
ggunn said:
I 2nd that.
Codmate
New member
johnny5dm said:
I haven't insulted anybody.
This is a typical reaction though.
Since my points cannot be effectively argued against people resort to the 'respect my religion' or 'ohhhh - I'm sooo hurt, you criticized my religion' motifs.
Blah blah blah. Why should I respect religion more than astrology, or any other made-up nonsense?
Give me one good reason apart from - "I have a bomb strapped to my stomach".
You're quite welcome to question my 'beliefs'.
I do most days after all.
It's fun and enlightening.
It allows for shifting moral viewpoints that change as we evolve culturally and as a species - and as I have new experiences in my life.
It's healthy.
If you want me to engage with you you have to start asking yourself some tough questions.
Where did God come from?
What is God made of?
How do we know of his existence - other than by the words of other people? Unlike gravity, there is no experiment I can conduct by myself to show God exists.
Why are there multiple religions with opposing views?
How can any being be omnipotent, and still deny responsibility for 'free will' in humans? Surely an omnipotent and omniscient God knew/knows the horrible consequences of giving humans free will (which is a paradox in itself)?
Why are religions tied so much to geographical locations? Why are there few Muslims in Iceland for instance? Hint - it's to do with indoctrination of children.
Following on from that... Why are there religious schools? Why are religions so keen to grab children early?
Why does the organized Christian church fleece money out of people (tax free in the USA at that), when Christ advocated the opposite.
Then there is the ultimate proof.
An argument from hundreds of years *before* Christianity
"
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
- Epicurus
"
Nobody has ever satisfied the Epicurean argument.
Free-will does not solve it - as God is not omnipotent if we have free will. If God can stop me doing something I don't have free will. The two things are mutually exclusive.
The point is that an omnipotent God has to take responsibility for all the suffering and evil in the world.
Car crashes, four year old girls with Leukemia dying slow and painful deaths, the recent Tsunami that caused so much death and destruction, volcanoes that wipe out homes and lives, the global catastrophe that wiped out the dinosaurs.
Oh yeah - dinosaurs! Explain them!
If anybody can give me as strong arguments for believing in any gods, then go ahead. I guarantee you that I've heard them all. I've been forced to sit through many Sunday services as a child. Luckily I got bored of coloring in pictures of Jesus and asked to be removed.
I actually stopped believing in God a year or two before I stopped believing in Santa Claus.
Well, God never left me any presents did he?