Contemporary Worship Music

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apl said:
It's spelled hearsay.

And it's not hearsay if Person A says they saw Person B do something.

There's an awful lot of history that we take as fairly certain that you wouldn't believe with your standard.
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Correct - that would be a witness.

Gospels are hearsay as they cannot be shown to have been written by people who ever met Christ, if he ever existed.

The Gospels are "Person A was told by Person B that he saw Person C do something".

Go here to discuss the issue in full:
http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5702
 
apl said:
Not Matthew and John.
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Any hard physical evidence?

Thought not...
Why aren't you arguing it here?
http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5702

I don't want to anger the moderators and start offending people unnecessarily.

What I don't like - and the reason I have been responding, is the smugness of a certain contingent of the religious, and their idea that we should all be like them.

End of discussion - take it to the Dawkins list if you dare, or leave it alone.
 
Codmate said:
Any hard physical evidence?

Thought not...
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You just changed the criteria.

Codmate said:
Why aren't you arguing it here?
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My friends are here.

Codmate said:
I don't want to anger the moderators and start offending people unnecessarily.
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There are no mods and no offense is taken.

Codmate said:
What I don't like - and the reason I have been responding, is the smugness of a certain contingent of the religious, and their idea that we should all be like them.
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I don't like that, either.

Codmate said:
End of discussion - take it to the Dawkins list if you dare, or leave it alone.
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Why should I do what you tell me to? You wouldn't do what I tell you!
 
and now the question we've all been waiting for : did jesus play fender or gibson, strat or les paul???

personaly i think he was more a strat kind of guy.
 
Codmate said:
So you would be OK with being convicted of murder on heresay?
That's good enough evidence for you?

The Jesus Seminar is totally falacious IMO, as they start with the assumption that Jesus existed. As well as this, the 'Jesus' they say existed, is totally contradictory to the one people tend to believe in as the 'Son Of God'.

From Wikipedia:
"The seminar's reconstruction of Jesus portrays him as a wandering sage who did not found a religion or rise from the dead, but preached in startling parables and aphorisms, often turning common ideas upside down and confounding the expectations of his audience."

I would argue that "The Jesus Seminar" aren't even discussing Jesus as we know it.

This is a lot like the way theists often change their definition of their chosen deity during the course of an argument.

Basically - unless you can provide me with physical evidence, or written testomony of actual witnesses (Gospels do not count - as can be easily shown from the evidence in http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm), I see no good reason to believe the man existed, let alone base my entire life around his supposed teachings (actually decided upon by by various catholic councils, such as The First Council of Constantinople).

Lets not have a theological argument on a guitar forum though.
If you want to argue with scholars about this - there are actually many eminent people hanging out at http://richarddawkins.net/forum/

As such I shan't be replying to any more posts on this forum concerning this...

My handle on the Richard Dawkins forum is the same as here, and you would be more than welcome to start, or join in an existing debate, about the authenticity of cited 'evidence' of Jesus' existance there.
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That's why we pray for you.
 
apl said:
You just changed the criteria.
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No I didn't - I need hard evidence to prove that they are direct witnesses.


apl said:
My friends are here.
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Or you're scared that people on the Dawkins list might know a lot about this subject...
Certainly more than both of us put together...

apl said:
There are no mods and no offense is taken.
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It's still off-topic, and innapropriate IMO.


apl said:
I don't like that, either.
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Well - that's good.


apl said:
Why should I do what you tell me to? You wouldn't do what I tell you!
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Of course not - but that would be a much more appropriate forum to discuss these issues on. There is aready a topic for it!

Plus people there can put you straight on these things much better than I can.

And that really is my last word on the subject on this forum. We can continue this on the other forum if you really want to.
 
Codmate said:
No I didn't - I need hard evidence to prove that they are direct witnesses.
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OK. Good luck with that.

Codmate said:
It's still off-topic, and innapropriate IMO.
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This is The Cave. Oops, no it's not! This thread should've been in The Cave. I might have to report it.

Anyway, if it was in The Cave there's pretty much nothing that's out of bounds or innapropriate.

Codmate said:
Of course not - but that would be a much more appropriate forum to discuss these issues on. There is aready a topic for it!

Plus people there can put you straight on these things much better than I can.
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I don't want to be put straight any more than you do. I don't even wanna argue about it. That alleged Jesus guy supposedly said, "Don't throw your pearls before pigs 'cuz they'll stomp in the mud and then bite you."

The Bible also says (in a stark contradiction) don't respond to fools and respond to fools. Since I get to pick the appropriateness of occasion to respond, I'll respond here.

Codmate said:
And that really is my last word on the subject on this forum. We can continue this on the other forum if you really want to.
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I don't want to.
 
Big Kenny said:
I pray you don't. And Jesus played a strat http://www.carverdoug.com/guitars/mike_deasy.htm
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Wow. He must have done that when he was in prison.

Even if you don't think Jesus is superman or David Blaine, you have to admit that His teachings (or what is attributed as His teaching) is overall a pretty positive thing. Most of the angry evil queer-burning stuff is from the old testament. The New Testament is mostly happy, hippy-Jesus "Love you Enemies/meek shall inherit the earth". I know that in the eyes of the church you can't be truly saved without taking in the whole ball of wax, but IMO, it's bad to let the sheep and how they wield the power of Jesus in society taint your appreciation for a pretty damned cool guy who challenged the conventions of His day and ultimately paid the price with His life (the walking the Earth life, not the poltergeist kind).
 
cephus said:
Wow. He must have done that when he was in prison.

Even if you don't think Jesus is superman or David Blaine, you have to admit that His teachings (or what is attributed as His teaching) is overall a pretty positive thing.
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Absolutely. Even to the non-religious, most of the Ten Commandments are still pretty good ideas for getting along with each other and surviving as a species.
 
ggunn said:
Absolutely. Even to the non-religious, most of the Ten Commandments are still pretty good ideas for getting along with each other and surviving as a species.
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The Ten Commandments is old Testament. One of the most vicious books around, it promotes child/gang rape, genocide and torture of loved ones.

Jesus is the new (and not as downright evil) Testament... he seemed like a nice man.
 
I noticed this thread has suddenly taken a nasty turn... Can the theological discussions go on elsewhere please?????

If you don't like something about Christain music (praise, worship, commercial, whatever), that's your business. Please don't turn this into flame war.
 
Codmate said:
Pray all you like - I'm still going to burn in hell :)
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Since you believe you are going to burn there, where is Hell? How do you know? How do you know you are going to burn? What evidence do you have?

If you did not go to Hell, where else might you go? What criteria might make the different of the alternate destination(s)? Where did this criteria come from?

In reality people believe what they do because they feel that way. There is little real physical evidence that anyone who lived more than a few hundred years ago existed. Nothing new there. What most rely on is what they read, what they hear, and what they feel.

For most of us here there is no physical evidence that you exist. For all we know, the messages with your name are generated by a computer program. We read and make a judgment call.

There are thousands of accounts of various people who lived in the past. There is no first or second hand information for any of them. Pictures only go back a few hundred years. Beyond that, it’s written text. You believe it or you don’t.

Jesus, like a number of other religious people from the past centuries, are discussed in various writings. In the case of religious leaders, there has generally been lots of analysis of historians. Few seem to think the story is false. You can clearly believe what you want, just like the rest of us.

Ed
 
Fusioninspace said:
I noticed this thread has suddenly taken a nasty turn... Can the theological discussions go on elsewhere please?????

If you don't like something about Christain music (praise, worship, commercial, whatever), that's your business. Please don't turn this into flame war.
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What did you expect?
 
If the kingdom of heaven is laid out all around us and we don't see it, then it should follow that hell is laid out all around us as well and we don't see it either.

I'm not worried about hell in the afterlife. Personally, I think earth is where hell is located, and it's something you have to deal with daily. You're stuck in this physical body that can be wracked with pain or starving or even turning against itself and killing your spirit along with your body. You're running down like a clock daily. Your kids are a source of hope and fear. Everything you have around you that seems permanent-- the building, the desk--- it's all temporary. Half of the bullshit we worry about is never gonna happen, and the other half we worry about we can't do anything to change because that's in the past now.

The laziest amongst us seem to be rewarded with the best of everything while those who work their asses off starve. The folks that are willing to lie and cheat always seem to rise to the top while the hard-working guy that chooses not to use steroids gets cut.

Really, Buddha covers all this stuff so much better than Jesus did.
 
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