BigRay
New member
LOVE his thoughts on compression(he doesnt use it) I personally hate compression...hate hearing it, hate using it...anything that kills dynamic range should die..
ssscientist
Info you can use...
In other words 'I don't have enough of an ear to use compression creatively and I hate anyone who does. They are compression facists and should die'.BigRay said:
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haarisa
New member
Man. The only way to mix that way is to use EQ to kill Dynamic range[which is not what you want] or have the person play each note at the same exact overall volume.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
Saying that Bruce Swedien "does not have enough of an ear" is tantamount to saying that Jessica Alba isn't attractive enough, that Ferraris don't have enough performance, or that there aren't enough newbs that have no idea of what they are talking about posting unfounded opinions on the Internet.ssscientist said:
G.
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RAMI
Guest
Don't you DARE Disagree with SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSScientist!!!!!!!
flatfinger
Use every dam bit!
Did someone call for me???????????????????
flatfinger
Use every dam bit!
BigRay said:
Oh Yeah , The late , great dynamic range, I remember when o'll DR was on top! He was a great guy, Been gone a long time now.
I'll have more unfounded opinions on this when I'm done formulating them!
flatfinger
Use every dam bit!
SouthSIDE ; AVERT YOUR EYES!AVERT YOUR EYES!!!!!!!!!
Whatever problems that may arise during the tracking phase can be easily addressed at the mixdown with a multi-band compressor! At that point, those pesky transient peaks can be eliminated, once and for all!!
Whatever problems that may arise during the tracking phase can be easily addressed at the mixdown with a multi-band compressor! At that point, those pesky transient peaks can be eliminated, once and for all!!
bennychico11
...
compression sucks in the theoretical world....but in the practical world it has to exist, so learn to live with it.
Or learn to draw/automate volume changes throughout the entire project PERFECTLY
Or learn to draw/automate volume changes throughout the entire project PERFECTLY
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Ironklad Audio
New member
...or you could just go into a multi-million dollar facility, with hundreds of thousands of dollars of gear at your disposal, with a massive budget that gives you a damn near unlimited number of hours in the studio, along with actual PROFESSIONAL musicians, and get everything tracked perfectly from the get-go
or you can be like me, and squash the stuff that doesn't sound right until it sounds a little better than it did
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
Why? Why does every note, every kick, every snare hit and every string pluck have to have the exact same volume?haarisa said:
Answer: They don't. A close-enough performance with feeling is a perfect performance. A perfect performance with all the feeling of a plug-in is not even close.
Worry about the performance and about being able to actually play the instrument with competance and emotion, and the recording will fall in line.
I'm not dumb enough to argue against the use of compression in general. BigRay hates compression because he works in the classical genre; there audible compression is indeed a Bozo no-no. The young headbangers on this board (except maybe for Legion
) will think he's OD'd on crack. The two will never see eye to eye because they live in two different musical universes.It's just that when I just read something like someone saying Bruce Swedien or even Big Ray "don't have the ears" to use compression properly and they they are just being "elitist" - both points of view that are so opposed to truth and reality as to be beyond ridiculous and well into fantasy - and I gotta call the poster on it for not knowing what they are talking about. It's not a matter of opinion at that point; it's just plain wrong.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm about to apply some 1.2:1 compression at -22dBFS to a fresh two mix.
G.
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Ironklad Audio
New member
if anything, the tendency of having everything at an even volume throughout a mix is what's sucking the life out of today's music
nobody plays at the same db level throughout a song...some parts are meant to be softer/quieter, which enhances the crescendos and give them some actual emotive quality - that's where the big punch comes from that makes people fall in love with and lose themselves in a composition
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RAMI
Guest
Why the hell would you want that???? You don't even want that WITH compression. Very strange remark.haarisa said:
Middleman
Professional Amateur
What's interesting about compression today is that:
1. Very few people know how to properly set one. It's all about starting with slow attack and adding just enough to be heard. Then adjusting the release to fit the music pulse. 90% of the time this is all you need. Fast attack just flattens the image. If that's what you want fine, but it sounds terrible with plugins. It's all about timing the release. Also deep threshold with light ratio gets a lot of use here. Not always however.
2. Plugins do not pump a mix like outboard gear.
3. They are overused and abused creating that flat narrow sonic that digital mixes get a bad wrap about.
4. You can't even hear the flatness damage that plugin compressors create unless you have a pretty decent set of monitors and a treated room. If you have these you will find that proper EQ not compression can get you closer to a pro sound.
5. If you can really hear the effect of a plugin compressor on the 2 buss then you probably have way too much compression going on.
6. If a plugin compressor is being used for its sound and it slightly warms or adds edge to the mix, then you are close to the best settings.
7. All of the above is irrelevant if your goal is to have a flat and narrow mix. Hey it may work for the material but I would suggest not often.
Many people who try to mix on headphones can get a little crazy with compression and reverb. Creating a great headphone mix means that you also have created a mix that won't sound good anywhere else but in your headphones. Just trying to help people out here with a few revelations encountered in my travels.
1. Very few people know how to properly set one. It's all about starting with slow attack and adding just enough to be heard. Then adjusting the release to fit the music pulse. 90% of the time this is all you need. Fast attack just flattens the image. If that's what you want fine, but it sounds terrible with plugins. It's all about timing the release. Also deep threshold with light ratio gets a lot of use here. Not always however.
2. Plugins do not pump a mix like outboard gear.
3. They are overused and abused creating that flat narrow sonic that digital mixes get a bad wrap about.
4. You can't even hear the flatness damage that plugin compressors create unless you have a pretty decent set of monitors and a treated room. If you have these you will find that proper EQ not compression can get you closer to a pro sound.
5. If you can really hear the effect of a plugin compressor on the 2 buss then you probably have way too much compression going on.
6. If a plugin compressor is being used for its sound and it slightly warms or adds edge to the mix, then you are close to the best settings.
7. All of the above is irrelevant if your goal is to have a flat and narrow mix. Hey it may work for the material but I would suggest not often.
Many people who try to mix on headphones can get a little crazy with compression and reverb. Creating a great headphone mix means that you also have created a mix that won't sound good anywhere else but in your headphones. Just trying to help people out here with a few revelations encountered in my travels.
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SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
Nice post, Middleman!Middleman said:
Point 5 is a good one that I'd like to "expand" (inverse pun intended
). Unless one is purposely going for special artifical effect, this is true of most of the main signal processor categories; EQ, compression and reverb. Maybe not so much with delay (though in some cases it can be).Almost all of us have heard it - and some understand it - as it applies to reverb. It's almost cliche to say, "if you notice the reverb, you probably have too much." Well, the same is true of EQ and compression. If you can say, "Boy, is that vocal EQ'd!" you probably have EQ'd too much. And, like you say, it's the same with compression.
Of course, all that goes out the window if the producer's/engineer's purpose it to specifically shoot for an obviously artifical - a.k.a. "k3wl" - sound.
But even then, "K3wl" sounds sometimes wind up sounding silly before you know it. Do the words "Flock of Seagulls" mean anything to anyone?
It still takes taste and style to make k3wl sounds work right (e.g. Pink Floyd.) There are some basic rules of thumb that never go out of style. Brown shoes will never go with a black suit. And excessive compression will always get tiresome and kill a song long before it's prime.
G.
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jonnyc
New member
Well Bruce does say that, back in the day, riding the faders pretty much was compression. Besides, just listen to his work, of everything I've heard him do I've never heard anything that didn't sound good. I'm nobody but I have recorded several songs in which no compression was used and I really like the way they sound. Haarisa, smarten up, it's embarassing to see people make statements like yours, maybe you should head over to GearSlutz and let Bruce know how to do it properly.
sweetnubs
New member
Bruce also has the pleasure of working with really good musicians. Try recording a shitty teenage punk rock band and not use compression on the mix. No really go ahead and try. As a general rule I try to avoid using compression, but if the shoe fits . . .
BigRay
New member
not in my world, fella. I record classical music, and on my own terms. If people want material squashed, they can take their money elsewhere. I will not have my name on lifeless, squashed bullshit. (remember those things called volume knobs?) if it means that I have a few clients that love hearing dynamic range, and dont get the majority of them, so be it! Quality over quantity!
listen to ANY Decca Album pre 1970..ok..now listen to one from the last 10 years..
horrible!
some great labels that done particpate in the loudness wars..
waterlily acoustics(Kavi alexander is a friend of mine), chesky, elite recordings...mapleshade...
listen to ANY Decca Album pre 1970..ok..now listen to one from the last 10 years..
horrible!some great labels that done particpate in the loudness wars..
waterlily acoustics(Kavi alexander is a friend of mine), chesky, elite recordings...mapleshade...
bennychico11 said:
BigRay
New member
sweetnubs
New member
Compression on classical music is bullshit, unfortunately it is happening right now with a vengence. Wish I had the pleasure of recording classical music more frequently. I get the occasional quartet or so but that's about it . . . . . (sigh)