Can't achieve studio quality...

[brendandwyer]

I'm not going to speak for Lee, but i'm not entirely sure he meant that the sound the kid is looking for would be obtained by using analog tape.

I think it was more of a "if you're looking for a sound, and you don't know what it is, and it might be the sound of a warm analog recording, then you would need to use tape to get it."

not really that tape is absolutely necessary. Dunno if that's what his point was but hey...

 

[Robert D]

Hey, A new contender for the all time ugliest thread award! It was an incredibly dumb question, but probably not worth getting beaten up for. But, catch the pros on a bad day and you gets what you gets with a question like that. In case you didn't get it by now, acheiving studio quality in a home studio is not impossible, but takes considerable investments in equipment and time. No amount of money and equipment will replace the knowledge, skill, and experience necessary, and no amount of skill and knowledge will replace the need for decent equipment and a decent room. Only when those things, AND professional instruments and vocals, AND professional musicianship, all converge, will a professional sounding product result. It's a long, long road.

 

[soundchaser59]

But if you really want to get the hard cold facts about "that sound", the truth of the matter is that there's alot more going into it than you think. Aside from the obvious, like the mics and processors you use to get the shit on a multi track, there's also the not so obvious things.

This is spot on! And this comment reminded me of something I was told way back when.......

There is sooooo much stuff going on behind the scenes, "behind the music" as they say on VH1, and in so many different places, that it is impossible to just listen to a cd and then go out and buy all the stuff you need to make "that sound." It aint gonna happen.

A good suggestion made to me years ago was go listen to a band that you want to sound like, but listen to them live, in concert. Sure, there are still a few "tricks" going on with the sound processing, but the live sound is ten times more "honest" than the recorded and store bought sound. And chances are you will be hearing the band the way the band wanted to sound in the first place, not the way some record company producer thinks they should sound to sell records. When they play live, they dont have a committee of "suits" looking over their shoulders telling them how they are going to play their tunes.

Go hear how they sound live, then try to emulate that sound before you think about trying to emulate their recorded cd sound. Or go listen to a really good bar band, and maybe find a way during breaks to tactfully and inobtrusively ask the sound guys a few quick and pointed questions about what they do or how they set up their rigs, etc. (Dont be put off if you dont get a nice response, live sound is a busy job, and they have to pay attention to what they are doing, but sometimes you'll get a guy at the right moment and he will love to give you the 5 minute crash course on his approach to sound!) You'll find it's much easier to "imitate" their live sound than it is to recreate their album sound. And their live sound is part of the way, if not most of the way, toward their recorded sound anyway. Learn to do that first, you'll get more results and you'll spend less money doing it. Something to think about......

 

[rory]

There are a couple of good nuggets in this conversation. I would second the old 4-track suggestion and a 57. This is how I started back in the early 90s with an old tascam unit. I think you get a better appreciation for recording when you don't start out with an unlimited amount of tracks and a bazillion mics. My band recorded our CDs years ago with 4 mics and 6 tracks. You'd be suprized at the drum sounds you CAN get with three mics.

<p>Of course, there is a HUGE difference between our stuff and what you hear on the radio, but not such a big difference between what I LIKE and how our stuff sounded. Its all comparative. I had another thread about clarity that touched on some of this.

<p>My recommendation would be FIRST and FOREMOST try a studio. That is an experience that you need at least once in your musical career. But before you do this, make sure your shit is tight. Play out a lot and record some demos on some sort of medium. Secondly, try to get the best out of what you have, realize where your coming in short and where you are ok. The I5 is a great multi-use mic. The soundblaster is not so good.

Rory

 

[sloom]

Along the way to finding a sound you want to cop, and actually copping it, you're going to end up coming up with your own sound. That sound you were looking for is like a parent you'll always look up to- but you're going to sound like you when you're done- you can't stop it!
You should enjoy the quest.

Now, as far as the rest of the responses on this thread (I mean the ugly ones): The kid asked a "stupid" question. I say the only stupid question is the one you don't ask- because somewhere inside that "stupid" question is a piece of real information you need to know. I'm glad none of you guys are my kid's guitar teacher. Of course, we all have to pay our dues, I guess. Doesn't excuse cruelty, though.

Which brings me to this: There's no reason to be boldface rude or boorish to a kid looking for what he needs to know to play some music. He did nothing to deserve it- and all this from the insulation of your monitor screens. Very poor performance. The only time I saw an uglier string of postings was on a Samplitude forum, going on about some "ignorant" sod. What a bogus, hubris-ridden country club- and this one takes a photo-finish with those guys.

EDIT: Oh yeah- this is Homerecording.com. Someone mentioned that...

 

[jonnyc]

Really the problem is there have been dozens of threads on how to get a "pro" guitar sound. No chess shouldn't have been a dick, but I'd imagine that in a thread on any board that if a noob came in and asked a general question like that he'd probably get flamed. For example my little brother is in a photoshop forum and they are some cruel bastards over there. He photoshopped some wheels on his car to show people what it'd look like, he was ridiculed so bad that I got on to give the little fuckers a piece of my mind. I mean the kids question would be the equivalent of going to a school of art and asking them how to paint. It's not something you can just tell someone and everyone probably does it slightly different. Someone link the kid to slipperman's article. At least he'll have an idea of how to go about getting a more pro sound.

 

[fraserhutch]

Which brings me to this: There's no reason to be boldface rude or boorish to a kid looking for what he needs to know to play some music. He did nothing to deserve it- and all this from the insulation of your monitor screens. Very poor performance. The only time I saw an uglier string of postings was on a Samplitude forum, going on about some "ignorant" sod. What a bogus, hubris-ridden country club- and this one takes a photo-finish with those guys.

There's a newbie section for that, and why the hell can't people do a little fucking reading before they ask these inane questions over and over and over again...

 

[Farview]

I didn't have a problem with the question in the post in the newbie forum, when I saw that it was cross-posted...

 

[sloom]

There's a newbie section for that, and why the hell can't people do a little fucking reading before they ask these inane questions over and over and over again...

I don't know, but this is the kind of ornery crap I'm talking about. But at least you're online in a forum, and therefore mostly harmless. Just don't become a teacher- you'll be in the bread line in no time.

 

[sloom]

...Someone link the kid to slipperman's article. At least he'll have an idea of how to go about getting a more pro sound.

Constructive solution.

 

[Farview]

I don't know, but this is the kind of ornery crap I'm talking about. But at least you're online in a forum, and therefore mostly harmless. Just don't become a teacher- you'll be in the bread line in no time.

Who died and made you forum den-mother?

Why do people constantly have to be spoon fed the same thing over and over again?

The 'go to a real studio' comment was good advice. If you have never been through the process, you don't even know what questions to ask.

Some of us had to learn this stuff before the internet was an option. Old school engineers and producers were a lot harsher in dealing with you than anyone I have run across online. And they were doing it to your face! They let you know, in no uncertain terms, that you were not entitled to their time and, if you wish to learn something, you need to do exactly what you are told.

Grow a pair and quit whining.

 

[sloom]

Who died and made you forum den-mother?

Why do people constantly have to be spoon fed the same thing over and over again?

The 'go to a real studio' comment was good advice. If you have never been through the process, you don't even know what questions to ask.

Some of us had to learn this stuff before the internet was an option. Old school engineers and producers were a lot harsher in dealing with you than anyone I have run across online. And they were doing it to your face! They let you know, in no uncertain terms, that you were not entitled to their time and, if you wish to learn something, you need to do exactly what you are told.

Grow a pair and quit whining.

I have a pair, and don't need to "brandish" them over the internet, where I don't have to deal face-to-face. And if no one's entitled to your time, well, you're on an open forum, where there's a lot of traffic. No one is walking into your studio, bothering you.
What I don't have are aspirations to be your mother. You got me there.

 

[fraserhutch]

I don't know, but this is the kind of ornery crap I'm talking about. But at least you're online in a forum, and therefore mostly harmless. Just don't become a teacher- you'll be in the bread line in no time.

I do teach, moron.

And I'm not anonymous like you are.

 

[fraserhutch]

IWhat I don't have are aspirations to be your mother. You got me there.

Then stop acting like it.

 

[Farview]

Sloom, hang out for a couple years. This will happen to you as well. After you have answered the same question in 4 different forums 12 times in a week, your patience will be tested. Add to that all the running around trying to combat a couple fools giving bad advice and/or spreading myths, and you will start telling people to use the search function, or just read the other 3 posts from the last 2 days asking the same question.

 

[Ironklad Audio]

whoever said that you would receieve as harsh(if not worse) of treatment in a studio as you would on this board is totally correct. the instructor for the engineering classes i took recently worked in the music industry in LA for almost 20 years before getting into teaching, and goddamn, that guy was ruthless when it came to recording. he's a really laid-back, easy-to-get-along-with guy the rest of the time, but the simple fact is that people are harsh in the entertainment business...mainly because it has the most competition of any industry out there. the simple fact is that you not only have to get things to sound good to you, but they have to be better than the other guy. you do a shitty take, and guess what? you're doing it again. you ask a stupid question, and you get a response like "why are you asking me something that you should already know?" you come into a studio with a beat to shit, flabby sounding kick drum, and you're going to be told that it's unacceptable, and you're gonna have to find yourself a new one or use one that's there.

this doesn't have much to do with topic of the thread, but people gotta realize that working in the music world doesn't mean hanging out with your friends and kicking around a few riffs when you deem it convenient to do so

 

[Dumby]

Home recording forum is suppose to equal; hobby, fun, ambition, place to learn, place to share.

People seem to forget that this is not an LA music studio. But this is still the most incredible and intense thread I have ever seen begining with a simple novice question! Now that this kid probably has retreated underground...

 

[soundchaser59]

Now I understand why the real pros in this place dont post very much..... they dont want to be associated with this kind of bickering crap....

I thought HR was a decent place, but this is the kind of thread that tells Kyle015 he should google for some other forums.....

 

[sloom]

whoever said that you would receieve as harsh(if not worse) of treatment in a studio as you would on this board is totally correct. the instructor for the engineering classes i took recently worked in the music industry in LA for almost 20 years before getting into teaching, and goddamn, that guy was ruthless when it came to recording. he's a really laid-back, easy-to-get-along-with guy the rest of the time, but the simple fact is that people are harsh in the entertainment business...mainly because it has the most competition of any industry out there. the simple fact is that you not only have to get things to sound good to you, but they have to be better than the other guy. you do a shitty take, and guess what? you're doing it again. you ask a stupid question, and you get a response like "why are you asking me something that you should already know?" you come into a studio with a beat to shit, flabby sounding kick drum, and you're going to be told that it's unacceptable, and you're gonna have to find yourself a new one or use one that's there.

this doesn't have much to do with topic of the thread, but people gotta realize that working in the music world doesn't mean hanging out with your friends and kicking around a few riffs when you deem it convenient to do so

This to me doesn't represent harsh treatment. I'm not a newbie to the music world- I've been treated poor as dirt, and it doesn't deter me from pursuing music- that's a big part of what I'm here (in this life) to do. I have heard impatience, and that's understandable. And if the guy's right, he's right. But are you (Directed at appropriate parties)?
Shouting at a guy (the kid who started this thread) who hasn't been here yet is meaningless. Next time it'll be a different stumbling upstart. And the stupid questions aren't going to stop because you're sick of them!
I think some of the blasting that goes on at newbies is an excuse to blow off tension at someone down low on the pecking order.

Farview, I don't chase people around who give bad advice- because I'm nobody's mother. It might stop when it hits me though, if I have good advice, or know better. But I made an observation, and a fair one, and I'm labeled as a "Den mother". Sounds like it's somebody else's problem.

The only thing that makes me a moron is that right now I feel like a guy spending his paycheck in a Five-and-Dime. Lot of loose bullshit flying around in here- besides all the good advice, I mean...

EDIT: The last two posts before mine also make me feel like a moron. I'm going to get back to my knitting...

 

[jonnyc]

Now I understand why the real pros in this place dont post very much..... they dont want to be associated with this kind of bickering crap....

I thought HR was a decent place, but this is the kind of thread that tells Kyle015 he should google for some other forums.....

I'm on 5 other forums, and they're pretty much the same way except for one, but it's boring as shit. Just think of this forum like a Harcore Dr. Phil. Sometimes people just need to be set straight.