metalhead28
Hates Raymond
chb2001 said:
I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous advice.
I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous advice.
metalhead28
Hates Raymond
Kyle015 said:
I don't see a sample on that link. What are you refering to?
Farview
Well-known member
I agree. With the equipment list as described, mastering won't be able to pull it out of the toilet. (it will also cost more than that distortion pedal)
FALKEN
*************************
Farview said:
yes, it is. and its the fault of the gear companies and the mega-stores that put words like "pro studio quality" on that $150 worth of consumer gear.
Or maybe we all heard that beck album he recorded on a 4-track and think we can do the same.
R
RAMI
Guest
Yeah, but don't forget this.
Genius.
Kyle015 said:
Genius.
Farview
Well-known member
BTW, I gave a slightly more possitive answer in one of the other threads this guy cross-posted.
I don't know anything about the Beck album, but I have seen what goes into some of these other albums that were recorded at home on less than stellar gear. Normally, they are mixed through an SSL and a million dollars worth of outboard gear, by a grammy award winning mixer, to pull the album out of the toilet. Yes, it was recorded at home, but it sure as hell wasn't mixed there.
I don't know anything about the Beck album, but I have seen what goes into some of these other albums that were recorded at home on less than stellar gear. Normally, they are mixed through an SSL and a million dollars worth of outboard gear, by a grammy award winning mixer, to pull the album out of the toilet. Yes, it was recorded at home, but it sure as hell wasn't mixed there.
brendandwyer
New member
Kyle, unfortunately, the sound you're looking for takes years of practical experience, and more than likely some very expensive upgrades in equipment.
If your band really wants studio experience and a good sound, consider buying studio time and learning the art of playing music as it's being recorded and, along the way you will learn a bit about engineering. Farview makes an excellent point that experience goes a long way.
The most common complaint you'll hear from bands on here is that they are very surprised that the sound they think they have is not the same sound that is recorded and played back to them. This is not a flaw in the engineering as much as inexperience in recording sound sources. THere was a good thread awhile back in which some Screamo band (apparently screamo is loud jangly instrumentation with high pitched screamy vocals) were mortified by the sound that they got even as they were paying lots of money for studio time. Imagine from an engineers perspective: A band that doesn't really sound that good comes to me for me to record them, and them thinks they got ripped off because it sounds bad. The screamo band would have done much better if they had had more critical ears towards their own music, crafted a sound that they could honestly hear being recorded and sounding decent.
So my advice to you is this: Before you begin to purchase expensive gear to try to achieve the sound you're looking for, spend a couple hundred bucks and go to a decent studio and try to record a 2 or 3 song demo that sounds good. Watch what the engineer does, how he does it, where he sets levels. Be critical of his performance and make a mental list of things that you feel you could do, or do better. Look at his microphones, where he puts them, listen to the way the guitar sounds using the gear he has, and then critically evaluate the recording that you get. If it still sounds lacking, honestly consider that your "sound" could stand some polishing and that maybe your choices in guitar tone, bass tone, drum tuning, vocal style, all contribute to a less polished sound than you'd like.
The reason for this advice is because i absolutely 100% garuntee that if you were to allow soundchaser, farview, chess, rami, or myself and all the other host of folks on here with recording experience to use your gear to record you, you would think that the product you got was better. This is not ego. This is simply because these people have dedicated their time, their passion, their music, and in some cases their careers to recording sound.
ps. nothing beats a cassette four track and an sm57. make a decent recording with that, and you're on your way
If your band really wants studio experience and a good sound, consider buying studio time and learning the art of playing music as it's being recorded and, along the way you will learn a bit about engineering. Farview makes an excellent point that experience goes a long way.
The most common complaint you'll hear from bands on here is that they are very surprised that the sound they think they have is not the same sound that is recorded and played back to them. This is not a flaw in the engineering as much as inexperience in recording sound sources. THere was a good thread awhile back in which some Screamo band (apparently screamo is loud jangly instrumentation with high pitched screamy vocals) were mortified by the sound that they got even as they were paying lots of money for studio time. Imagine from an engineers perspective: A band that doesn't really sound that good comes to me for me to record them, and them thinks they got ripped off because it sounds bad. The screamo band would have done much better if they had had more critical ears towards their own music, crafted a sound that they could honestly hear being recorded and sounding decent.
So my advice to you is this: Before you begin to purchase expensive gear to try to achieve the sound you're looking for, spend a couple hundred bucks and go to a decent studio and try to record a 2 or 3 song demo that sounds good. Watch what the engineer does, how he does it, where he sets levels. Be critical of his performance and make a mental list of things that you feel you could do, or do better. Look at his microphones, where he puts them, listen to the way the guitar sounds using the gear he has, and then critically evaluate the recording that you get. If it still sounds lacking, honestly consider that your "sound" could stand some polishing and that maybe your choices in guitar tone, bass tone, drum tuning, vocal style, all contribute to a less polished sound than you'd like.
The reason for this advice is because i absolutely 100% garuntee that if you were to allow soundchaser, farview, chess, rami, or myself and all the other host of folks on here with recording experience to use your gear to record you, you would think that the product you got was better. This is not ego. This is simply because these people have dedicated their time, their passion, their music, and in some cases their careers to recording sound.
ps. nothing beats a cassette four track and an sm57. make a decent recording with that, and you're on your way
C
chb2001
New member
metalhead28 said:
Why is putting together a good mix, before mastering ridiculous advice?
metalhead28
Hates Raymond
chb2001 said:
You said he should have it mastered. That is what I considered bad advice.
This guy certainly does not need to have the idea put in his head that a mastering job is going to make up for his lack of tracking and mixing skills.
He's a long way from needing to worry about that.
Farview
Well-known member
That isn't what you said. What you did say was bad advice.chb2001 said:
C
chb2001
New member
metalhead28 said:
Basically, I was pointing out that it's tough to make a track shine like something you heard on a professional CD, without it being first being mastered.
But, I agree 100% that you need to have a good mix before you consider mastering anything, and that mastering won't fix a poor mix.
R
ryanlikestorock
New member
Any of the engineers I know are still asking "how can I make it better" until they retire. You've identified "studio quality" as a level above where you're at - so listen to it. Try to define what "studio quality" is to you specifically. It's probably a mix of hundreds of things - the sound of the instrument, the room, the gear, the technique, effects, how everything works together, etc etc.
I'm not in this business to achieve any certain level of quality. I'm doing it to get better and to find new ways of presenting ideas though music. What you might be calling "studio sound", I might think is a horrible way to present any given band I'm working with.
If you're not interested in audio as a career and just want to mess around (but getting better sounds in the process), start with a decent soundcard and monitor setup. M-audio makes some nice stuff. Any cheaper than that and you're probably not going to like what you hear. Then, instead of going for a "studio" sound, find your own sound using the gear that you have access to. A lot can be done with a little if you're creative. That "studio" sound costs a lot of money and I'm still not convinced it's the best sound for most projects.
I'm not in this business to achieve any certain level of quality. I'm doing it to get better and to find new ways of presenting ideas though music. What you might be calling "studio sound", I might think is a horrible way to present any given band I'm working with.
If you're not interested in audio as a career and just want to mess around (but getting better sounds in the process), start with a decent soundcard and monitor setup. M-audio makes some nice stuff. Any cheaper than that and you're probably not going to like what you hear. Then, instead of going for a "studio" sound, find your own sound using the gear that you have access to. A lot can be done with a little if you're creative. That "studio" sound costs a lot of money and I'm still not convinced it's the best sound for most projects.
FALKEN
*************************
I have heard a lot of horseshit come out of "studios".
Farview
Well-known member
A lot of that is a budget issue. If you don't have the money to spend the time that's needed, it will be half assed.FALKEN said:
If you show up with crappy sounds and/or won't let the engineer tweak them, you will certainly end up with crap.
I have a band that comes in here with about $200 and tries to do 4 songs. They are very cooperative and they leave here with something that sounds much better than it should. (BTW my rate is $50/hr) The first time was terrible, the second time, I had a plan. Except for the fact that everyone really only gets one take, the sound is there. If they would have given up after the first time, they would have just bounced from studio to studio thinking they all suck.
The expectations have to be realistic, it's a microphone, not a magic wand. Unfortuanately, finding realistic musicians isn't easy.
FALKEN
*************************
Farview said:
very true...how often do you hear a recording with great drums and bass but the vocals are off pitch in a few places.....you can tell they ran out of $$....
I have a friend who is one of the most amazing drummers I have ever heard. He was playing in a rock band for a little bit....he's got a nice DW kit that just sounds amazing. anywayz, when they went down to the "studio" to record their demo, the engineer wanted him to use HIS snare...says he knows how to get a good sound on it or whatever....man those tracks sounded like ass. I couldn't believe it. every time I have so much as put any random mic somewhere in the room that guy sounds great...it must have taken a lot of "talent" to make him sound that bad.
I would recommend going to a studio that has produced a record that you LIKE the sound of...not just any studio.
S
studiops150@dir
New member
chessrock
chessrock you are a jerk give the guy a break you started out raw and learned the hard too there's no need for the reponce you gave you should not be aloud on any forum with an atatude like that and if this forum is going to conteniue to except this junk i'm out of here and the rest of you that fallowed his lead shame on you
chessrock you are a jerk give the guy a break you started out raw and learned the hard too there's no need for the reponce you gave you should not be aloud on any forum with an atatude like that and if this forum is going to conteniue to except this junk i'm out of here and the rest of you that fallowed his lead shame on you
LeeRosario
New member
Kyle015 said:
Yeah, not to sound like a broken record (gotta love that double standard), but chess is right, hit up a good studio. Although his approach might of been too brute for my tastes.
A good studio would cost you some money, but I think your tastes might be far too advanced for your gear.
But if you really want to get the hard cold facts about "that sound", the truth of the matter is that there's alot more going into it than you think. Aside from the obvious, like the mics and processors you use to get the shit on a multi track, there's also the not so obvious things.
One big one, and others might disagree, is the power of analog tape. You pass a mix through a tape machine, or even better recording on one, and you would hear what I mean. It's that simple.
So rather than lead you down the path of eternal frustration, it's better to get real so that way you avoid the millions of hours of heartache and possibly still save your love of music.
But to leave things on a positive note, you can find tips here than can get you better results than what you might be getting now.
J
jonnyc
New member
studiops150@dir said:chessrock you are a jerk give the guy a break you started out raw and learned the hard too there's no need for the reponce you gave you should not be aloud on any forum with an atatude like that and if this forum is going to conteniue to except this junk i'm out of here and the rest of you that fallowed his lead shame on you
I guess hooked on phonics didn't work for you, or maybe it worked too well. One of the senior members here already addressed his negativity he's doesn't need you telling him he's wrong, and I'm sure nobody would be that hurt if you left. I'm a jerk too. In a nice way though.
J
jonnyc
New member
LeeRosario said:Yeah, not to sound like a broken record (gotta love that double standard), but chess is right, hit up a good studio. Although his approach might of been too brute for my tastes.
A good studio would cost you some money, but I think your tastes might be far too advanced for your gear.
But if you really want to get the hard cold facts about "that sound", the truth of the matter is that there's alot more going into it than you think. Aside from the obvious, like the mics and processors you use to get the shit on a multi track, there's also the not so obvious things.
One big one, and others might disagree, is the power of analog tape. You pass a mix through a tape machine, or even better recording on one, and you would hear what I mean. It's that simple.
So rather than lead you down the path of eternal frustration, it's better to get real so that way you avoid the millions of hours of heartache and possibly still save your love of music.
But to leave things on a positive note, you can find tips here than can get you better results than what you might be getting now.
Dude no offense but if this kid's on a soundblaster then tape aint gonna help him much. We're not even anywhere remotely close to that conversation and tape doesn't make or break a track, it's nice, yes, but 100% needed, no.
sile2001
_|_
Damn I'm impressed! Four (or maybe five, I couldn't tell) entire sentences with not a single mark of punctuation. I feel smarter, just knowing that I was able to figure out what you saidstudiops150@dir said:chessrock you are a jerk give the guy a break you started out raw and learned the hard too there's no need for the reponce you gave you should not be aloud on any forum with an atatude like that and if this forum is going to conteniue to except this junk i'm out of here and the rest of you that fallowed his lead shame on you
