ecktronic
Mixing and Mastering.
If you are using the L3 to boost the level a good deal (ie to compete with commercial CDs) then apply all effects before the L3. Once you have used the L3 I would never add any effects.sprynmr said:
Eck
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SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
I can't believe there's a generation of wanks who grew up depending on plugs and think that digital editing is hard.Ford Van said:
On a 20 minute clip, a good editor can manually knock down the the average number of plosives, lip smacks, etc. as fast, and more importantly - a lot cleaner - than running a noiseprint, tweaking it to order, and running it against the clip.
As to whether one does it via manual wave knockdown, pencil redraws, or rubberband automation is up to the individual editor/engineer. Some are faster at one over the others, mostly based upon force of habit/experience. It's a "choose your weapon" situation. I happen to like manually knocking down the waveforms; Sonic Al (I think) prefers pencil redraws. Sounds like maybe Ben likes the automation best(?).
It doesn't matter, when done right they all have the same end result, which is usually (not always, I'll admit) much more surgical and transparent than even the best plugs. And when you've been doing it for long enough, it's just as fast as setting up and running a plug.
If there are an extreme amount of such oddities in the track, OK, maybe it might be faster to run a plug. But if you got that many problems, that track should've never stuck to tape to begin with.
G.
Ford Van
Banned
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Just admit that you have never used a decent denoise plugin and call it good.
TuoKaerf
New member
I admit that I've never looked at a denoise plugin for more than 30 seconds.
First off, unless I didn't track it, the mix isn't going to have that kind of noise in it to start with. If there are a few pops on a bass DI track, volume automation and slight waveform redraws work fine.
First off, unless I didn't track it, the mix isn't going to have that kind of noise in it to start with. If there are a few pops on a bass DI track, volume automation and slight waveform redraws work fine.
ecktronic
Mixing and Mastering.
Gadz! I hate noise reduction plugs. De-essers n noise reduction from Waves are prettty mince IMO. I cant get rid of unwanted noise without taking away high end!
Eck
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C
chessrock
Banned
Ford Van said:
That sounds like shit.
I wouldn't let you edit a home movie, let alone a comercial voiceover.
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bennychico11
...
for commercial voice overs I'd never use noise reduction.
It'd be like trying to remove air conditioner sound from the room. It does ruin the high end and cause audible artifacts.
However, I still use noise reduction on lots of other things. Mainly location recordings. It helps clean up the noise a bit and although it may change the tone of the voice, it's not a big deal because no one really knows how it's supposed to sound before hand anyway. There are some good noise reduction plugins out there (I don't really like Waves that much though)...Cedar is one. Most of the results you'd only be able to tell the difference if you compared them back to back. Just like every other plugins, noise reduction has it's place in your toolbox. I'd just use it as a last resort though....if there are other ways you can accomplish cleanup, do them instead.
It'd be like trying to remove air conditioner sound from the room. It does ruin the high end and cause audible artifacts.
However, I still use noise reduction on lots of other things. Mainly location recordings. It helps clean up the noise a bit and although it may change the tone of the voice, it's not a big deal because no one really knows how it's supposed to sound before hand anyway. There are some good noise reduction plugins out there (I don't really like Waves that much though)...Cedar is one. Most of the results you'd only be able to tell the difference if you compared them back to back. Just like every other plugins, noise reduction has it's place in your toolbox. I'd just use it as a last resort though....if there are other ways you can accomplish cleanup, do them instead.
Ford Van
Banned
chessrock said:
Bahahahahahahaha!
The other loser in this thread weighting in!
"Nope, you are screwed". Classic cockrock rubbish.
C
chessrock
Banned
Well, he's definitely screwed if he has amateurs like you working on it, so I wasn't lying.
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Ford Van
Banned
chessrock said:
Yeah, I suppose you are right dumbass.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
I've used most every one out there, thank you very much. I own the full Waves Restoration bundle, the full Sonic Foundry NR bundle and some of Steinberg's stuff, and have used I don't know how many others of varying degrees of quality from excellent to poser.Ford Van said:
Just admit that you have never used a decent denoise plugin and call it good.
Benny has it right, good NR plugs certainly have their place in one's tookit. But there are some situations where
a) the nature of the noise combined with the nature of the signal leavs a situation where even the best automated noiseprints and unthinking computer algorithms are just not appropriate, or at least just don't do as good of a job as a good engineer with more than a couple of brain cells and a little experience can do manually
and/or
b) where with a little practice, one can manually edit the waveforms just as quickly as one can setup and run a plug - unless there are a million clicks or pops, in which case sure, of course a plug will be faster. But faster or slower, for that kind of noise, manual editing and processing will 9 times out of 10 yield a more neutral and transparent result than most plugs will yield.
Computers are just not as good as skilled humans for heuristic tasks. And seperating signal from noise is about as heuristic as it gets.
G.
ecktronic
Mixing and Mastering.
Too right Glenny.
Good post.
Eck
Good post.
Eck
Ford Van
Banned
No need to listen to it. X Crackle did an outstanding job removing the "lip smacking" noise.
For even a 30 second commercial spot, if I was a paying customer, and you tried to bill me with "manual editing" time to fix this when XCrackle does a great job fixing the problem, you would never get my business again.
The original poster has sent me PM's thanking me for the suggestion and is QUITE happy with the results! He is able to fix his audio without much effort, and XCrackle is not imparting much unacceptable hash. Everybody is happy!
I would never consider manual editing something like this. WAY too much work, and I totally disagree that a "skilled engineer" could work as fast as the plugin does. Sure, for a 5 second clip, maybe it would be close doing volume automation, but for longer audio clips, the plugin is a HUGE time saver, and is very effective.
I also find the arguements about "Well, if I was recording it, there wouldn't be this problem". I know a LOT of engineers who work professionally, and we discuss stuff in depth. I have never met a professional who would make a statement like that. Everybody makes tracking mistakes, and misses stuff. That is the way of things! The skill of engineering is being able to fix stuff in a timely fashion! While I have heard some decent work from some of the people here, sometimes the comments these same people make remind me of just how inexperienced they really are, and how they wouldn't last long trying to do this for a living.
I lasted 8 years!
For even a 30 second commercial spot, if I was a paying customer, and you tried to bill me with "manual editing" time to fix this when XCrackle does a great job fixing the problem, you would never get my business again.
The original poster has sent me PM's thanking me for the suggestion and is QUITE happy with the results! He is able to fix his audio without much effort, and XCrackle is not imparting much unacceptable hash. Everybody is happy!
I would never consider manual editing something like this. WAY too much work, and I totally disagree that a "skilled engineer" could work as fast as the plugin does. Sure, for a 5 second clip, maybe it would be close doing volume automation, but for longer audio clips, the plugin is a HUGE time saver, and is very effective.
I also find the arguements about "Well, if I was recording it, there wouldn't be this problem". I know a LOT of engineers who work professionally, and we discuss stuff in depth. I have never met a professional who would make a statement like that. Everybody makes tracking mistakes, and misses stuff. That is the way of things! The skill of engineering is being able to fix stuff in a timely fashion! While I have heard some decent work from some of the people here, sometimes the comments these same people make remind me of just how inexperienced they really are, and how they wouldn't last long trying to do this for a living.
I lasted 8 years!
Ford Van
Banned
And nothing wrong with a guy not being up on everything in engineering, I mean, we have to learn right?
But what I see at this place are some marginal engineers talking crap, then when they are called on it, they flood the thread with long statements about the obvious to try to somehow recover from their obvious ignorance about something.
So sad to watch.........
Southside, have you posted ANY audio of bands you have recorded anywhere yet?
But what I see at this place are some marginal engineers talking crap, then when they are called on it, they flood the thread with long statements about the obvious to try to somehow recover from their obvious ignorance about something.
So sad to watch.........
Southside, have you posted ANY audio of bands you have recorded anywhere yet?
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
Ed, If I retired today, you'd still have to be at it for another 19 years before you've caught up to how long I've been at it. So let's not go waving our dicks around to see who's is longer. I'm tired of those games.
And I also know a LOT of other professoonal engineers, and - like in any other profession that uses tools - the real pros will tell you *every time* that you got to use the right tool for the right job, and that no single tool works best for any given job. And that sometimes there no substitute for getting your own two hands dirty.
I also know and have worked professionaly alongside a LOT of professional software engineers who make a living writing stuff lfrom audio plugs to voice recognition software, and every one of them will tell you that there is no way that such tools can ever truely replace the human ear for seperating signal from audio noise. They have their place, yes, but they are not a panacea. Nor are they ever intended to be.
I had a gig this summer where I was asked to remix and premaster some analog synth stuff in the vein of early Vangelis or Synergy (lot's of fancy ARP and Moog and Oberheim patches, oh my
). The client had recorded this stuff to computer via a very dubious quality sound card and unbalanced wiring. This had left a rather noticable noise floor on his tracks.
None of the NR tools I have - including the Waves stuff - was able to knock down the noise to acceptable levels of some of his synth tracks without artifacting the signal to the point where it sounded like beached whales with golf balls in their blow holes.
After analyzing the noise, I found that there was a harmonic component within the noise with a bizarre fundamental (see attached graph). I have no idea just where it came from, but I had to knock that down manually with a harmonic filter before throwing an NR plug at it in order to keep the plug from artifacting the signal too badly.
I will forever be mysified as to why you have the need to come on here and treat everyone - from rookie to professional - who has not dealt with you personally, like an ass. Including making fun of the handicapped in your sig line.
It doesn't matter what you know or who you know if you act like an ass. If you bothered to read any Dale Carnagie 9 years ago, before you jumped into this racket, you might know that by now.
And BTW, you'll get a kick out of the fact that someone is going around giving positive rep points to people who stand up to your flames and calling them their "hero" and then *signing your name to it*. Or is that really you?
G.
So let's not go waving our dicks around to see who's is longer. I'm tired of those games.And I also know a LOT of other professoonal engineers, and - like in any other profession that uses tools - the real pros will tell you *every time* that you got to use the right tool for the right job, and that no single tool works best for any given job. And that sometimes there no substitute for getting your own two hands dirty.
I also know and have worked professionaly alongside a LOT of professional software engineers who make a living writing stuff lfrom audio plugs to voice recognition software, and every one of them will tell you that there is no way that such tools can ever truely replace the human ear for seperating signal from audio noise. They have their place, yes, but they are not a panacea. Nor are they ever intended to be.
I had a gig this summer where I was asked to remix and premaster some analog synth stuff in the vein of early Vangelis or Synergy (lot's of fancy ARP and Moog and Oberheim patches, oh my
). The client had recorded this stuff to computer via a very dubious quality sound card and unbalanced wiring. This had left a rather noticable noise floor on his tracks.None of the NR tools I have - including the Waves stuff - was able to knock down the noise to acceptable levels of some of his synth tracks without artifacting the signal to the point where it sounded like beached whales with golf balls in their blow holes.
After analyzing the noise, I found that there was a harmonic component within the noise with a bizarre fundamental (see attached graph). I have no idea just where it came from, but I had to knock that down manually with a harmonic filter before throwing an NR plug at it in order to keep the plug from artifacting the signal too badly.
I will forever be mysified as to why you have the need to come on here and treat everyone - from rookie to professional - who has not dealt with you personally, like an ass. Including making fun of the handicapped in your sig line.
It doesn't matter what you know or who you know if you act like an ass. If you bothered to read any Dale Carnagie 9 years ago, before you jumped into this racket, you might know that by now.
And BTW, you'll get a kick out of the fact that someone is going around giving positive rep points to people who stand up to your flames and calling them their "hero" and then *signing your name to it*. Or is that really you?
G.
Attachments
masteringhouse
www.masteringhouse.com
Personalities aside, there is possibly a technique that includes all of the above (though I haven't tried it yet).
Using Waves X-Click or X-Crackle as a side-chain to a compressor.
Basically you would set up a channel with a feed of the audio into either of the plugs above. However, set the plug into difference mode so that you are only hearing the clicks or quick transients. Use this as a side chain to a compressor set to fast attack and release on the original audio.
As Glen and others have mentioned, you're probably throwing the baby out with the bathwater by declicking/crackling all of the transients (some may not be lip smacking). So in addition to using the side chain, you may want to run automation for the compressor to bypass it for certain words etc. That way you add a bit of "intelligence" to discriminate between what and what shouldn't be ducked.
The advantage (if this even works) is that you preserve more of the original audio quality, have full control, and not have to edit too much.
Of course the best way to cure all of this is to give the V/O talent a glass of water before he starts recording next time.
Using Waves X-Click or X-Crackle as a side-chain to a compressor.
Basically you would set up a channel with a feed of the audio into either of the plugs above. However, set the plug into difference mode so that you are only hearing the clicks or quick transients. Use this as a side chain to a compressor set to fast attack and release on the original audio.
As Glen and others have mentioned, you're probably throwing the baby out with the bathwater by declicking/crackling all of the transients (some may not be lip smacking). So in addition to using the side chain, you may want to run automation for the compressor to bypass it for certain words etc. That way you add a bit of "intelligence" to discriminate between what and what shouldn't be ducked.
The advantage (if this even works) is that you preserve more of the original audio quality, have full control, and not have to edit too much.
Of course the best way to cure all of this is to give the V/O talent a glass of water before he starts recording next time.
Ford Van
Banned
SouthSIDE Glen said:Ed, If I retired today, you'd still have to be at it for another 19 years before you've caught up to how long I've been at it.
And I also know a LOT of other professoonal engineers, and - like in any other profession that uses tools - the real pros will tell you *every time* that you got to use the right tool for the right job, and that no single tool works best for any given job. And that sometimes there no substitute for getting your own two hands dirty.
I also know and have worked professionaly alongside a LOT of professional software engineers who make a living writing stuff lfrom audio plugs to voice recognition software, and every one of them will tell you that there is no way that such tools can ever truely replace the human ear for seperating signal from audio noise. They have their place, yes, but they are not a panacea. Nor are they ever intended to be.
I had a gig this summer where I was asked to remix and premaster some analog synth stuff in the vein of early Vangelis or Synergy (lot's of fancy ARP and Moog and Oberheim patches, oh my
None of the NR tools I have - including the Waves stuff - was able to knock down the noise to acceptable levels of some of his synth tracks without artifacting the signal to the point where it sounded like beached whales with golf balls in their blow holes.
After analyzing the noise, I found that there was a harmonic component within the noise with a bizarre fundamental (see attached graph). I have no idea just where it came from, but I had to knock that down manually with a harmonic filter before throwing an NR plug at it in order to keep the plug from artifacting the signal too badly.
I will forever be mysified as to why you have the need to come on here and treat everyone - from rookie to professional - who has not dealt with you personally, like an ass. Including making fun of the handicapped in your sig line.
It doesn't matter what you know or who you know if you act like an ass. If you bothered to read any Dale Carnagie 9 years ago, before you jumped into this racket, you might know that by now.
And BTW, you'll get a kick out of the fact that someone is going around giving positive rep points to people who stand up to your flames and calling them their "hero" and then *signing your name to it*. Or is that really you?
G.
Southside, I have come to the conclusion that you post just because you like to see yourself write words!
The fact is, a few "professionals" here told this guy that he was "screwed" basically, and that he would have to run some elaborate manual editing thing to fix his audio. I literally spent 30 seconds fixing his short little sound clip. As a professional engineer, I have dealt with this kind of stuff many times in the past and instantly knew that X Crackle would do a great job fixing it.
I will swing my dick in this case! I will also berate supposed "professionals" who write long winded posts saying basically saying "it is gonna be hard" etc... when the person hasn't even taken a stab at it.
If you don't know your tools very well, well, I guess maybe all those years of work have been spent on very few projects!
C
chessrock
Banned
Southside, I gave you the positive rep.
And my reasoning is that, although I find you kind of an annoying know-it-all windbag ... at least you're not a complete waste of human life like Ed is.
Ed just basically wishes he was me. He's a wannabe Chessrock, which is kind of sad when you think about it. He bashes you becaus he's seen me do it in other threads, and he's envious he didn't think of it first.
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And my reasoning is that, although I find you kind of an annoying know-it-all windbag ... at least you're not a complete waste of human life like Ed is.
Ed just basically wishes he was me. He's a wannabe Chessrock, which is kind of sad when you think about it. He bashes you becaus he's seen me do it in other threads, and he's envious he didn't think of it first.
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I
Ironklad Audio
New member
no, he's really just pissed cause he doesn't have his own site to get owned on