Can anyone comment on the differences between the Studio Projects C1 and B3?

[mikey@thecave]

at any rate i think you'll like the T#3 i dont have any thing better than the T#3

 

[noisedude]

This is it. I was getting a C1 but having tried the T3 it had to go on my shopping list. I've not heard a mic under £500 / $1000 that sounds like that. It caused me to re-write my aspired mic locker list - i.e. what I reckon would do everything:

- SP T3
- AT4050 x2
- Josephson C42 x2
- Beyer M201
- MD421 x2
- ATM25

Other than extra tom mics, I can't see what you couldn't do to 'pro' standard with that set. The M201 will be the next dynamic I get (unless I stumble across a cheap MD421 or 441 first). I reckon with a choice of T3 and AT4050 (I've heard the KSM44 is a similar kinda sound) you'd have the bases of 'coloured' vs. 'transaparent-ish' covered for most vocals.

 

[DJL]

I see noisedude removed his signature that he was using to try and mock me with... but noisedude only wishes he owned those mics and is still just doing what he does best... making noise.

 

[noisedude]

You're right. I wish I owned those mics. But I've got a full set for the time being, seeing as you asked

- SP T3 (on order)
- SP C4 x2 sets (ditto)
- Shure 545 for snare
- Beyer M400 for snare too
- Sennheiser E835 and a few E845s for toms
- ATM25

These are between me and my recording friend - has has one set of C4s and the ATM25. And a couple of EV N/D 767s which are handy dynamics to have around too - the E845s are sometimes problematic on toms because of the little blob round the back of the hyper-C pattern.

 

[RickW]

Well, Eurythmic...I almost don't want to give an opinion (because everyone's is different), but...what the hell.

Given that I'd much rather listen to Noisedude's opinion (which I respect) than to DJL's opinion (which, when it comes to PMI products, is usually childish), I unabashadly have to agree with DJL this time. I own Studio project mics and MXL mics (though not the V67G, which I want) and I have to say that the SP B3 is not my go-to mic for vocals. While it's good on acoustic instruments, it's a bit harsh for vocals - and since you've described yours as breathy/airy, I'd shy away from mics that will enhance that feature. You may want to look for something that WILL color your voice a bit...work with proximity a little. I don't own a C1, but a friend who does uses his rarely for vocals. Then again, he has a much nicer mic closet than I do.

Just another opinion to throw into the mix.

 

[RickW]

Oh yeah, one more thing. Noisedude IS a forum moderator at PMI's BBS...and he doesn't hide that fact. PMI's BBS is also fairly new and you should check it out if you're interested in their products. He's also a very intelligent guy and won't steer you in any particular direction, except to answer your questions, no matter what others say. I have no problem with any advice he's given.

DJL also gives advice. He won't steer you in any particular direction either, but he WILL steer you away from a direction, so bear that in mind. If you can get him to give an honest opinion about a product without bad-mouthing anyone, he's usually reliable also (even if he does hide behind anonymity).

I've requested numerous times for him to reveal something about himself, his recording experience, his skills...anything. But to no avail. If he wants to keep his identity hidden, that's his prerogative. It just seems to negate any valid responses he may give on a subject as we don't know if they're coming from experience or not. I think if we all knew a little something about him, we'd take him more seriously. It's been long enough since we've been dealing with this "my brother can beat up your brother" mentality.

Bear in mind that there are others on this board that berate products (the dreaded "B" word especially) and sometimes that bothers me, but I'm not gonna go off the deep end about it, as it's only opinions.

Sorry for the slight hijack. I hope I didn't steer this thread away from your question. I'm just saying that you have to read between the lines sometimes...no matter who posts. (Even me)

 

[CanopuS]

I've got the SP B1 which while isn't strictly the cardioid pattern of the B3, apparently shares some characteristics, and while its a great starter instrument mic, I don't think it suits many voices, nor does it like mine, which I would think is quite like yours. I'd suggest (although I've never used one, I plan to get one) maybe an ADK Hamburg would be a good choice for you? I know it may not fit into your budget but its got a good reputation so far.

I unlike most of the people arguing about their knowledge and trust, have limited knowledge and ability so I wouldn't take my advice too strongly unless someone else backs me up here

Best of luck with it

 

[noisedude]

RickW - Thank you! I was starting to wonder if I was going crazy!

I certainly wouldn't suggest that a B3 would be a 'go-to' vocal mic. I just gave him my thoughts regarding the two options he gave.

CanopuS makes a very good point about the Vienna/Hamburg - definitely worth a look-in. I have an SE Electronics SE2200 (very similar to the JoeMeek JM47 and a couple of others - buy whichever you can find cheapest) which can be excellent on the right voice. It's on the flattering side, but it's not over the top at the high end. Excellent value because it's always an option on cabs and acoustics too. I took a bunch of recordings I made with it into the uni studio I use and they more than held their own against more expensive mics down there - the only one that killed it was the AT4050 and that's not a 'colouring' type mic anyway.

And I've said it a million times - MXL mics aren't available for sensible money in Britain. They cost two or three times (and often more) what you pay for them in the states. Hence my decision to buy a pair of C4s rather than paying double for MXL603s.

I hope this thread hasn't put you off getting back into recording. My advice is to get a mic, stick with it, and make some music. Don't come back here till you're stuck.

 

[noisedude]

I don't think it suits many voices, nor does it like mine, which I would think is quite like yours.

I was thinking his was more like the guy from Snow Patrol's or, at a push, Daniel Bedingfield's. Not that it makes much difference ... I wouldn't expect the B1 to be killer on either. I guess that's not really its job. Although that Norwegian kid Nilse Fix at RP cooked up some astonishing tracks with a B1 and a DMP-3 or something similar.

 

[DJL]

Well, Eurythmic...I almost don't want to give an opinion (because everyone's is different), but...what the hell.

Given that I'd much rather listen to Noisedude's opinion (which I respect) than to DJL's opinion (which, when it comes to PMI products, is usually childish), I unabashadly have to agree with DJL this time. I own Studio project mics and MXL mics (though not the V67G, which I want) and I have to say that the SP B3 is not my go-to mic for vocals. While it's good on acoustic instruments, it's a bit harsh for vocals - and since you've described yours as breathy/airy, I'd shy away from mics that will enhance that feature. You may want to look for something that WILL color your voice a bit...work with proximity a little. I don't own a C1, but a friend who does uses his rarely for vocals. Then again, he has a much nicer mic closet than I do.

Just another opinion to throw into the mix.

I respect your opinion Rick... I came to hr.com to learn, help, and teach... for example http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=155707 because this is what hr.com is really all about... and that's what I like doing. Yeah, I know I come off childish at times... that's something I need to work on... but I got ticked off when I saw noisedude was going out of his way to mock me. Anyway... Rick, thanks for your constructive criticism. Don

 

[noisedude]

DJL - You know the truth is that I have no problem with you on a personal level. I get pissed off when you make false claims about me, send me profane PMs and post physical threats against me ('ripping me a new asshole' wasn't exactly nice of you). If you're going to stop that shit, then we have a cease-fire again. God knows I don't want to fight with you, we've been over that enough times.

PM me and let's see if we can work something out.

 

[DJL]

Just knock it off and it's over... period.

 

[noisedude]

Tell me what you're wanting me to knock off. I won't agree to avoid all posts about products I like - but if you want to stop all the personal shit then I'm down with that. What do you reckon?

 

[Eurythmic]

Thank you for backing off on the potential flame war. I'd rather not see this thread get locked.

I looked at the chart that baekgaard linked to. Very interesting. Out of curiosity, where do you reckon the Neumann U67 would fit on that?

I actually had never heard of the V67G before. $99.99 is definitely an attractive price point. And I noticed a plug from Harvey Gerst on the website. He has more microphone knowledge in his little finger than I'll learn in a lifetime, so that definitely means something.

Although the SP T3 looks extremely cool, I'm afraid that it is out of my price range at this point. Maybe if I were looking for only a microphone, but I've got to worry about everything from computer to furniture, too.

For what it's worth, I have tentatively picked the SP VTB1 as my preamp. It seems to have gotten some pretty rave reviews around here. My sound interface will be the M-Audio Firewire Audiophile, which I am just about to go and order right now.

 

[noisydude]

The short answer is that that they are both miracle machines so it don't matter. Good luck.

 

[Clit Torres]

Hey Noisydude, you're a fat bastard.

 

[noisedude]

That's actually quite funny! The only answer remains ... who bothered to do it ... I wouldn't have expected cat-eggs to bother with something like that, so my money's on the Seifer. Good effort!

 

[noisedude]

Eurythmic - The V67 certainly has lots of good reviews as a vocal mic. I've not had an opportunity to try one, which is why I can't really comment on it. I know a guy called Dracon got one based on advice here quite recently and was very happy with it.

 

[freshmattyp]

I have owned both of the mics in question. I wouldn't compare the C1 to the V67, mine sounded too dissimilar. My V67 had a very dark character, as opposed to a very airy sound on the C1. I have several other vocal mics, but the C1 is the one I use on myself most often. I found the B3 to be better as in instrument mic, especially on Omni in conjunction with a couple of SD mics on acoustic guitar. My experience was that it was not the best vocal mic, but you never know what mic is going to work on any given voice on any given day. As always, YMMV.

 

[jeffree]

Keep in mind that the SP B3 is not just a multi-version of the B1. While I haven't used the B3, I've read several pro reviews that make exactly this point: they sound different. In fact, in the reviews I've seen (one in "EQ" mag comes to mind), the B1 has received the better nod. I use a couple of B1s for acoustic guitars and have been impressed by the sound, which seems quite flat to my ears--which may be why it doesn't handle many vocal duties that well.

J.