Calling all Metal (death) Heads!!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bloodsoaked
  • Start date Start date
metalhead28 said:
That's what I thought it was... The blast beat would sound alot better in my opinion if the kick and snare were hit at the same time. (in my opinion, that is the basic blast beat) As it is, the guitar riff flows with the kick, and the snare is a half beat behind it. It's not that you're timing is off on the guitar, it's just a different accent. The snare is distracting...if you tap your finger with the flow of the guitar riff, you expect the snare to be with it, but it's behind it.
If you don't want to do that style blast, I would suggest leading that riff off with the snare instead of the kick. However, with a blast beat, I don't think you want anything on the half beat like that snare is. It just throws off the groove.
Click to expand...

If mine is: kick, snare, kick, snare, kick, snare

How are you suggesting? The guitar riff is on beat or on time with the kick drum. I jsut thought that is how it should be....hmmmmmmmm


Peter
 
Bloodsoaked said:
If mine is: kick, snare, kick, snare, kick, snare

How are you suggesting? The guitar riff is on beat or on time with the kick drum. I jsut thought that is how it should be....hmmmmmmmm


Peter
Click to expand...

instead of this...

--------snare----------snare----------snare
kick------------kick------------kick-----------

try it like this...

snare----------snare----------snare
kick------------kick-----------kick
 
metalhead28 said:
By the way...the double kick (cannibal) blast at the 1 minute mark sounds so much tighter because the snare leads off the riff along with the kick...like this:

snare----------snare----------snare
kick----kick----kick----kick----kick----kick


if you took out the double time kicks, it would be a standard blast beat in my opinion...

snare----------snare----------snare
kick------------kick-----------kick----
Click to expand...


I guess you knew I was going to ask....

At the one min mark yeah, I have the double bass/kick going and each down pick is with the snare drum and that is what I wanted. So your thinking that same drum beat would sound much better with the riff your talking about?

If so where would the ride cymbal go in that senerio or even in the second example you have above?

Thanks allot.


Peter
 
metalhead28 said:
instead of this...

--------snare----------snare----------snare
kick------------kick------------kick-----------

try it like this...

snare----------snare----------snare
kick------------kick-----------kick
Click to expand...

Where would the hit-hat or ride cymbal go?


Peter
 
Bloodsoaked said:
I guess you knew I was going to ask....

At the one min mark yeah, I have the double bass/kick going and each down pick is with the snare drum and that is what I wanted. So your thinking that same drum beat would sound much better with the riff your talking about?

If so where would the ride cymbal go in that senerio or even in the second example you have above?

Thanks allot.


Peter
Click to expand...

Honestly, most drummers that I observe strike everything at the same time (kick, snare, and ride/hat/whatever) for a beat like that. I like to hear the ride maybe every other hit sometimes, and maybe alternating hits with a crash or a china for the "one" and "five" beats. I get alot of my ideas from watching Derek Roddy videos and stuff like that, I really like his cymbal work during blast beats. But in it's most basic form I would say strike all three at the same time.
 
metalhead28 said:
Honestly, most drummers that I observe strike everything at the same time (kick, snare, and ride/hat/whatever) for a beat like that. I like to hear the ride maybe every other hit sometimes, and maybe alternating hits with a crash or a china for the "one" and "five" beats. I get alot of my ideas from watching Derek Roddy videos and stuff like that, I really like his cymbal work during blast beats. But in it's most basic form I would say strike all three at the same time.
Click to expand...


I will try it tonight and post what I come up with. I am interested in hearing it myself. I will do it like this:

snare----------snare----------snare
kick------------kick-----------kick
ride------------ride------------ride


Should be about to post in in a couple hours...


Peter
 
Ok, avaliable here to download are three different beats for the main riff. They are as follows. Please let me know what one you like the best.


Original Blast Beat

kick------------kick-----------kick
--------snare----------snare----------snare
ride-------------ride-----------ride


Blast Beat

kick------------kick-----------kick
snare----------snare---------snare
ride-------------ride-----------ride


Double Bass Blast Beat

kick----kick---kick---kick---kick
snare---------snare--------snare
ride-----------ride-----------ride


Everone and anyone listening please give your feedback as to what one you like. The different drum tracks start at about 00:11 into the song and then again two other times. Let me know what you think of the flow and what not. Thank you..

Peter
 
Bloodsoaked said:
Well, complaring my apartment recording to Decapitated is CRAZY!!!!! I love Decapitated and would love to get their sound but in my apartment and using what I got I would be dreaming. What would you do to make it full? Bad bass as well. dam your tough...I like that...

Peter
Click to expand...


haha i wasn't necesarily comparing it to decapitated... i don't know.
did you do multiple takes for each guitar track? if so, how many? how did you pan them?

ps, sorry if you already posted it, haha.
 
also, i like the second and third clips a lot more than the original.
 
tylerxxx said:
haha i wasn't necesarily comparing it to decapitated... i don't know.
did you do multiple takes for each guitar track? if so, how many? how did you pan them?

ps, sorry if you already posted it, haha.
Click to expand...


I played 4 guitar tracks, panned 2 100% right and 2 100% left. 1 bass track dead center.


Peter
 
I have added the vocals for the song now as well. If you have been following the thread, I used the double bass blast beat for the final mix. Let me know what you all think.

Full mix with vocals


Peter
 
I like the song but being a metal drummer the blast beat bugged the crap out of me. I attached drum notation that I used when playing my drum set

tigerbillmusiclarge1204.jpg
 
jmxdrummer said:
I like the song but being a metal drummer the blast beat bugged the crap out of me. I attached drum notation that I used when playing my drum set

tigerbillmusiclarge1204.jpg
Click to expand...

So did you like the blast beat that was used when I first posted the song with out the vocals? You can go back to the begining of this thread and download the song with out the voclas and here it was a blast beat as you posted on the first picture. On the first picture is what I think of when I think of a blast beat.

Also, up at the top of this page is three different versions of the song with different blast beats. Since your a drummer I would like to know your opinions.


Peter
 
there are two types of blast beats.

the regular blast beat (think of the drum style played in Napalm Death)

the reverse blast beat is being used quite a bit now
(think of Hate Eternal, Bleeding Through,)


both are great beats but I personally perfer the reverse blast beat. It just has a stronger and more accented sound.
 
Bloodsoaked, I prefer the second and third versions. It's a toss up out of those two. The final mix sounds great. I like the vocals!

Regarding blast beats.

A blastbeat involves a fast, straight snare beat (8th notes at 180bpm or higher), often with a similar ride or hi-hat alternating alongside - or occuring with - it. The bass drum patterns vary, but the iron rule is a fast snare.
There were three main drummers who people claim started the blast - Charlie Benante, on SOD's "Milk", Kurt Bretcht on DRI's "Dirty Rotten LP", and Mick Harris on Napalm Death's "Scum". For the record, it's Charlie ("Speak English Or Die" came out 2 years before the others. Nuh!)
As for the methods of playing them, there are 2 main variants, the European way, and the American way.
There are tons of cool effects you can do to make all of these sound cooler:
You can:
- add another bass drum underneath either of these to create a double kick blast (as I will go into more detail later)...
- transpose any of these into 6/8 or 12/8 time, so there will be 3 snare notes per beat (or any other time signature for that matter)...
- experiment over different surfaces (a personal favourite of mine is to, instead of the snare and hats, use the toms and ride bell/china!)
- and cut the cymbal work in half (instead of doing 8th notes on the ride or hats, just do quarter notes instead).
Depending on which method you are using, the effect will be different. There are several drummers who have taken the format further by adding their own trademarks to the following templates. I will list those at the end. On with the show!

1. The European method, variants, and masters...

a) STANDARD VERSION - "GRIND BLAST" (Hats leading)
This is the version used by many a black metal and grindcore band. The classic European way involves alternating the hats and snare at 16th notes, with bass hits coinciding with the hats. It's basically a single stroke roll (RLRLRLRLRL etc) with your right hand on the hi hats or ride.
The bass drum can either be on the beat or off the beat, and you can always cut the footwork in half (some people stupidly call this the "cheat blast") by splitting it over both your feet with two bass drums when the tempo gets to 260+. It's good to do open handed also (the sticking would switch round).

e.g.
hats- x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
snare -x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
bass- x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-

RECOMMENDED TEMPO: 170-250 bpm (anything above that and there's very little audible difference between any other blast IMO, as the offbeat between the hats and snare is almost nonexistent.)
AS USED BY: Trym (Emperor), Hellhammer (Mayhem), Danny Herrara (Napalm Death), Nasum etc.
CLASSIC USE: Ye Entracepurium (Emperor)

b) ALTERED VERSION (Snare first)
You can switch your hands around too, so the snare is leading. This would be LRLRLRLRLR, and is a pretty good exercise for left hand work.
Again, you can put the bass drum on the offbeat, but then you're just doing the standard European version. And the footwork, again, can be split in half.

e.g.
hats- -x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
snare x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
bass- x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-

RECOMMENDED TEMPO: 190-260 bpm (anything below it sounds too slow and not 'manic' enough, anything too fast sounds like an American version done real sloppy).
AS USED BY: Well...no one comes to mind....maybe me!!!!
CLASSIC USE: My cool ass song that exists in my head.

c) DOUBLE KICK EUROPEAN BLAST BEATS - "BOMB BLASTS"

Basically, play the main version, and then add in your left foot so you are alternating your kicks and doing a double bass pattern. There is no way to "cheat" and cut your footwork in half if you're lazy...so be warned, this is a toughie.

e.g.

hats- x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
snare -x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
bass1 x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
bass2 -x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

You can't really hear the double kick effect though, unless you're well miked or have a nice click with your bass drums, as the snare tends to drown it out. But still, when done properly it works great. You can switch the hand work round too, of course, but that's quite close to a "Cannibal Blast" - more on that later.

RECOMMENDED TEMPO: 180-260 bpm (this one works great transposed into 6/8.)
AS USED BY: No one really comes to mind.
CLASSIC USE: Again, some cool ass song that exists in my head.

2. The American method, variants, and masters...

a) STANDARD VERSION - "SUFFOCATION/HAMMER BLAST" - and the HYPERBLAST

As stated before - very simple - 8th note patterns on the hats, snare, and kick, all at once. Mainly used by death metal acts - and Charlie Benante, who brought this to life with the SOD classic "Milk" back in '85.

e.g.
hats- x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
snare x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
bass- x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-

This method requires quite serious co-ordination. Pretty much all death metal drummers use this method at some points in their career, it's very impressive when done at the speed of the masters. If you're looking for an easy way to do this, do the European method, then synch your hands together so you're slamming both your hands straight down at the same time.
You can cut the footwork in half once the tempo reaches about 250+ - as this, to my mind, is the only blast that really works a treat upwards of 260. This isn't one just for those with slow feet, if you have fast hands but can't hit the speed that you have with your hands on your feet to make a double kick blast - just do this. Upwards of 270bpm - and as fast as 340 bpm (!), the two
footed Suffocation blast magically becomes a HYPERBLAST, as most famously used by Flo Mounier.

e.g.
hats- x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
snare x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
bass1 x---x---x---x---
bass2 --x---x---x---x-

RECOMMENDED TEMPO: 180-340 bpm. (Practice your singles to reach that kind of speed, it's worth it! But don't underestimate the power of doing this blast at minimum speed - the reason it got the label "Suffocation blast" is because Suffocation used it really slow - for the sole purpose of cranking up the intensity, and it worked. Brilliantly.)
AS USED BY: Doug Bahn (you guessed it...Suffocation), Flo Mounier (Cryptopsy), The Berzerker, and tons of other death metal bands.
CLASSIC USE: Too many to mention, but if I had to pick one, I'd go for Hate Eternal's "King Of All Kings". Searingly intense stuff.

b) OFFBEAT VERSION

A blastbeat that is used by Pete Sandoval almost exclusively, to gain the same kind of effect that you can get with the European blast - i.e. chaos - is to have the hats and snare hit simultaneously, and then a kick hit - so it's a "snare led blast":

hats- x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
snare x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
bass -x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

RECOMMENDED TEMPO: 200-270bpm (Sandoval transposes it into 6/8 on many songs, i.e. Rapture).
AS USED BY: Pete Sandoval (Morbid Angel).
CLASSIC USE: My personal favourite is "Heaving Earth".

c) DOUBLE KICK AMERICAN BLASTS - "CANNIBAL BLASTS"

Easily the most challenging blast - an utter bitch to do - you're slamming both your hands down simultaneously, whilst doing 16th double kicks. Work on your double kick and American blastbeat technique throughouly before combining this.

e.g.
hats- x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
snare x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
bass1 x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
bass2 -x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

RECOMMENDED TEMPO: 200-as fast as you can get it bpm (of course it's limited only by your kick speed really).
AS USED BY: Cannibal Corpse, Cryptopsy, Hate Eternal etc.
CLASSIC USE: Mithras - "Worlds Beyond The Veil". You probably haven't heard this song, but it's an instant hit in my eyes.

3. Other methods...

a) "NORTHERN HYPERBLAST"

Kataklysm have prided themselves on their blast technique. Simply a 16th note snare pattern with quarters on the hats and bass. Sounds like an utter jackhammer.

hats- x-------x-------
snare x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
bass- x-------x-------

RECOMMENDED TEMPO: 130-160bpm.
AS USED BY: Kataklysm.
CLASSIC USE: Kataklysm - "In Shadows And Dust".

b) "KRISIUN BLAST"

The drummer from Krisiun borrowed an idea from the Kreator drummer, Ventor (who has 8th note ride, quarter note snare and triplet kicks to form his "Ventor Beat"), and in tranposing it into a blast situation, uses a modified version of the "Cannibal Blast". With simulataneous hands and ride, instead of straight 16ths on the kicks, he does triplets. This means you can blast at tempos you normally wouldn't be able to with 16ths, depending on your technique. (Unfortunately, because it's a 3 on 2 polyrhythm of sorts, I have no way of showing you this through here because I can't space everything out!)

RECOMMENDED TEMPO: 220-300bpm (though I don't really care for this blast).
AS USED BY: Krisiun.
CLASSIC USE: The first track off "Works Of Carnage" is a good example (I forget the name, and though it's good, it's probably not the best either).

c) "GRAVITY BLAST"

In use by bands like Origin, and most recently, on Kataklysm's new material. Again, like the Cannibal Blast, but you're doing a ONE HANDED ROLL on the snare count! Utterly insane! So that's a 16th note snare and kick pattern over the top of each other!

e.g.
hats- x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
snare xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
bass1 x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
bass2 -x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-

RECOMMENDED TEMPO: 180-240bpm (good luck getting it fast as Longstreth!).
AS USED BY: Origin, Kataklysm etc.
CLASSIC USE: Kataklysm - Ambassador Of Pain (although it's a new tune, I think it works GREAT in the context of the song!)

Bloodsoaked, I was refering to the American style or "Hammer Blast" for what I was wanting to hear in your song. The standard european way (Napalm Death) I think lends an offbeat sound. I think the drums sounded off beat on alot of old Napalm Death records too...lol. I was simply saying that I thought the American style would sound better with your riffs.
 
how the fuck do you know all of this metalhead? where can I read about all this shit?
 
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