building a isolation booth..please help...

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

How would you sujest putting 2 sheets of drywall on, put glue inbetween them?

Hello Disasster DRYWALL? I thought you had to have a PORTABLE booth. Drywall joinery isn't synonomous with portable.
At least from my view. Especially 2 layers per leaf. There IS a special glue ESPECIALLY designed and tested for laminating sheets together. Believe it or not, its called GREEN GLUE. I've read a lot about it. Trouble is, its fairly expensive. However, do NOT use glue ONLY to fasten drywall to a frame. The inner skin is cardboard and could possable tear loose. Always use drywall screws. But remember, caulking, taping and mudding don't work well for "portable" either. MDF allows gasketing of joints, and gluing the panels to the framework make for HERMETICALLY SEALED airgaps. Bolted joints allow for tight fit with gaskets(Sill foam in rolls). Many other reasons as well. If you want more mass, use 3/4" with more layers, but you have to plan this when dimensioning. But this adds weight and if you go larger than 4'x4', then you must also deal with either larger modules, or inplane joints. More complex.

You can even build DOUBLE WALL isolated and large booths if you so please. Much heavier, and more difficult to build as a KNOCKDOWN unit. Unless you are REALLY good at fabrication/planning. Although, I'm really interested in Owens Corning resiliant framing system. Might be a bear to get though. And expensive. Or miniumum purchases. Thats why I'm trying to specify HOME DEPOT access for everything except computer fans, maybe 703, and or Fiberglass isolators.

But heck, everyone has their own set of skills, goals, budgets etc. Even isolation requirements are different for different sets of conditions. So, you know best for your own criteria. I'm just trying to point out some considerations.

When you say this, do you mean screw teh frame together without any drywall, then put adheseive on and then the drywall?

Yes, screw the frame together, but DON"T use adhesive only for the drywall. You can use the construction adhesive as a caulking for airtight airgaps. But with drywall, you really need to use screws too. But don't drive the heads through the cardboard top layer. For a SECOND layer, use GREEN GLUE, but you have to order it I believe. I'd have to get a link though.

fitZ

 

[JeffLancaster]

Hey Jeff, where in Oregon are you? I'm in Coos Bay.
fitZ

Hey Rick. I'm in Beaverton. Wouldn't mind being in Coos Bay though - that's a nice area.

 

[riffy]

I built these a few months ago & are working pretty well for vocals / voice-overs & guitar cabs.

http://www.riffster.com/gobos/gobo.htm

 

[punkin]

Hey Rick. I'm in Beaverton. Wouldn't mind being in Coos Bay though - that's a nice area.

I hail from that area myself! Lived in Coos Bay then moved a little further south to Coquille. A sleepy little town.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

I hail from that area myself! Lived in Coos Bay then moved a little further south to Coquille. A sleepy little town.

Ha! I WORK in Coquille. Do you live there now punkin ? I work at American Cabinet downtown. geeeezus, its a mall world. Give me a holla there sometime. Lets do lunch.
fitZ

 

[punkin]

Nope moved out of there years ago otherwise, I'd let you buy .

 

[mysong]

viewing window

wow, alot of great reading in all these posts eveywhere in here.

I read in one post to have the viewing window at 12 degrees.

I can't find any other post ( or I missed it in this huge forum ).

Is that 12 degress for both windows ( the iso room side, and the control room side )

And also. 12 degrees slanted into the iso room ,..or 12 degrees slanted into the control room. Ohh and 12 degrees which way.....as in the crappy drawing attached

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

If I'm not mistaken, that concept has grown out of vogue, as it has been shown the airgap depth is more important. By angleing the glass, you reduce the depth of the airgap. BTW, I also believe that 12 degrees was the minimum angle for reflections, just as in non paralell walls.
fitZ

 

[Innovations]

I had always understood that the slanting of the air gap was only a third, and not the largest third, of the reason for angled windows. The first was sound reflections off of the window, which in a typical room will be the largest completely sonicly reflective surface. So lets say you have someone standing and singing. They are facing the window so they can make eye contact with the control room. If the window is vertical and the mic is anything other than a cardiod (worst case a figure 8) you will get a lot of reflected sound into the mic from the glass. The idea was that the slanted glass will deflect the first order reflections down toward the floor. The third reason also had to do with reflections, but light reflections, the 'perpetual mirror' effect.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Well, can't know it all eh Inno! Actually, I read it at Johns site quite a while ago...but what do I know.

 

[pure0007]

I would like a drawing for a 4x4 or 6x6 booth with an fan. can you help me?

That depends on a few things. First off, your frame on the floor doesn't mean a thing. At this point, in order for ANYONE to help you, you need to help US, by telling us everything you can.

1. Is this an apartment, or an upper room in a home?
2. What kind of existing floor STRUCTURE...ie...concrete or wood.
3. What room is below...bedroom? kitchen? family room..???
4. Where would you cut the materials...ie...framing and SHEETGOODS? And how large is the space(just lifting a sheet of 3/4"MDF or 5/8" sheetrock is a chore. Laying it out to cut and manuver can be a lesson in hindsight?
5. How? What tools do you have to machine these parts and materials?
6. Any construction or fabrication experience?
7. Can you read blueprints or plans? Do you understand section and details on drawings?
8. Where is this going to be assembled? How large is this space and where in the room is it going( ie...middle of the span places a larger percentage of the load on the support joists themselves rather than the walls that support them.
9. What kind of budget do you have? I can guarantee this will run about $1000, with framing, sheithing, caulking, hardware, door/jamb/latch/ threshold/ seals, insulation, absorption material, fabric, electrical, and....the biggie. Ventilation fan, ducting and grills, which we haven't even discussed yet. The fact is, when you "soundproof" an envelope, you "airproof" it as well. Singers like to breath. Not only that, people and lighting generate HEAT very quickly in an insulated and airtight enclosure. Therefore, you need to PENETRATE the leafs in such a way as to SUPPLY and REMOVE air at the same time, WITHOUT generating a flanking path for fan noise through the ducting. Not only that, where you place the fan unit has a direct bearing on your ductwork length, geometry, and air source. I can hear what you are thinking right now...I don ned no stinkin fan!! Well, maybe YOU don't. But since you haven't told us anything about WHO is going to use this(ie...clients?) I assume YOU will be engineering while someone ELSE is in the booth. And usually clients don't like to stop and open the door in order to get a breath of fresh air. No matter, you NEED it. But thats for you to decide. You asked. I answered.

Let me add this. There are a thousand ways people build their booths. Each is in direct relationship to the things I asked above. Compromise is the USUAL name of the game. However, if you are trying to record late at night, right over someones beroom, and your lease depends on not disturbing people, then the difference between success and failure is important. Thats why I suggest OPTIMUM isolation technique for the space and budget. Whether or not you need it, can build it, can afford it, or the existing structure can handle it, is totally in your ball park. If you only want a "quasi" iso booth, then I won't waste my time. ANYONE can suggest "moving blanket and PVC frame type assemblies. BUt if you are serious, and want to know HOW to do this, then we need to take a step at a time.

Ok, thats it for now. Once we know some things, we can better advise you on the plan. Later.
fitZ

I would like a drawing for a 4x4 or 6x6 booth with an fan. can you help me?
I built booths before, but i would like to do it the right way this time.

 

[pure0007]

i'm building in the basement.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

I would like a drawing for a 4x4 or 6x6 booth with an fan. can you help me?

Well, its been a long time since I worked on a concept for a booth in Sketchup. Too many irons in the fire. But..I've been meaning to get back to it. So yea, I'll try and help you but again, your specific conditions info is king.

i'm building in the basement.

Ok, but I need more than that. How bout a plan view drawing of the space and a few pics with a few dimensions like available height, and a few insights to the conditions. Like, whats above, any adjacent noise makers(like an HVAC unit), are you monitoring adacent to the booth, or maybe a drawing of where you monitor from in relationship to the booth etc. Is this going to be permanent or KNOCK DOWN? What kind of skills, tools etc. No sense in designing something that you can't actually build, or get the materials, or even get the modules into the basement. Handling/machining/cutting FULL size 3/4" MDF panels is a real pain in the ass in small areas. Even moving them around can be a bitch by yourself. And the reason I mention MDF is because of its mass. However, this shit is heavy, edges are sharp, and making a MODULAR unit requires VERY PRECISION machining/cutting. Any experience in woodworking? The reason I ask is many novices do not understand the nature of PRECISION woodworking, and what it REALLY takes. For instance, most people ASSUME the perimeter of a PLY or MDF panels are SQUARE from the factory. NOT. In order to build a modular unit, you need to understand the everything MUST be absolutely square. Not an easy task. Even the framing members must be individually squared. You can't just use any old 2x2, 2x3 or 2x4 lumber. The lumber must be squared...that is new edges machined to be true, which with nominal sized #2 common lumber is usually out of the question. You need KILN DRIED CLEAR..which is expensive and may not be available in your area.
HOWEVER, this is for a modular knock down design. A PERMANENT structure can be built IN PLACE, using common materials such as drywall, standard 2x lumber, doors etc. So, thats why I need to know what your intention is as far as permanancy is concerned.

Ok, get back to me and I'll try and help you as soon as possible. But remember, there are many ways people build a booth. However, the actual design depends on many factors. But one of the most important aspects of a booth is SIZE. A DRUM booth must be considerably large compared to a simple vocal booth. Another is the required TRANSMISSION LOSS. For instance, if you are recording vocals at the same time a drummer or band is recording adjacent to the booth...well, were talking EXTREME TL, which requires some SERIOUS construction, which may or may not be within your budget or skill level. EXTREME TL requires EXTREME materials and EXTREME attention to details. As to size, forget a 4x4. By the time you build a 2 leaf system, add absorption etc, you end up with a 2.5x2.5. Minimum is 6'x6' exterior dimension. BTW, the other thing is WEAK LINK syndrome. Why build a high TL enclosure only to penetrate the envelope with low TL window or door. For example, a window that meets the same TL as a Two Leaf system with each leaf being 2 layers of 5/8" drywall, requires a MINIMUM two leaf glass system consisting of one leaf 3/4" and one leaf 1/2" glass. How deep are your pockets? So much for examples.

Ok, I'm really swamped at the moment so in the meantime, maybe take a gander at other peoples designs. There are literally tons of ideas on the net. Some good, some not. Look at some of the links on this page.

voiceover booth forum - Google Search

or punch in "voice over booth" in your search engine.
Ok, gotta go for now.

fitZ

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

ps. here's some more links. Look through all the pages of these sites and you'll learn more about the concepts than I could write in a book.

Sound Isolation Booths - STUDIOBOX Vocal Booths, Acoustic Design
Sound Isolation Booths - STUDIOBOX Vocal Booths

TeachEngineering.org - Free resources for K-12

Sound isolation materials for commercial and residential projects

Pro Sound Foam Studio Wedge Vocal Booth Kit

 

[Dogbreath]

Nice finds Fitz.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Nice finds Fitz.

Hey, thanks. You know, once I found this stuff, my original ideas seemed a bit...well, lets just call it "uneducated" Actually I'm working on some booth Sketchups as I type this. I'll post this stuff as soon as I finish it. Got a ton of stuff I've been working on for months.

 

[Supercreep]

Wow, that was some highly effective thread necromancy.

 

[dclebental]

Hi Rick,
I'm looking to create sound isolation in my garage. I was planning on using steel framing to build a room w/in a room. Have you tried Green Glue and does it work? Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks Rick-

dave

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hello Dave. Well, yes and no. Yes it works. And no, I've never used it. Reason is..it's too expensive for my blood. But yes it works very well. And so does steel framing. Better than wood. But to truly get all the benefits from these things, you need to address the entire construction in detail. I'd suggest you buy this book. It will tell you everything you need to know. Much more than you could search out on forums in a year.

Amazon.com: Home Recording Studio Build it Like the Pros (Book) (0082039530345): Gervais Rod: Books

Hope that helps. But don't hesitate to ask questions. There are lots of people here with answers, including the author. He is a member here.

fitZ