building a isolation booth..please help...

[travelin travis]

this wont collapse my floor will it

That would really suck if it did! I'd definately find out the specifics of your floor.

 

[ShellShock]

dammit...

I gotta find a way to see how much weight this piece of crap place can hold..SHIT!

Ill get back to you guys on that

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

I gotta find a way to see how much weight this piece of crap place can hold..SHIT!

Excellent idea. I would have thought the lightbulb would have come on when I first mentioned the "problem".

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hello Shellshock. I hope you find out that the floor CAN support this weight. I know how frustrating it is to want to participate in ones hobby(or business for that matter) and can't. I spent YEARS with this suffering
But, I have something I want to share with you should you discover that you can PROCEED with this project. I know people would LIKE the luxury of visual communication between the person in the booth and the engineering position. Hell, thats the point of a window in the control room. Otherwise there would be none. For more reasons than one.

However, in a small booth there is a SPECIFIC reason NOT to have a window. Its called COMB FILTERING. Do yourself a favor. Put on a pair of headphones. Pic up a mic and RAP or sing or talk, while walking from the center of the room RIGHT UP TO A WALL. You will see. Thats what happens in the booth with a mic adjacent to a REFLECTIVE surface.
fitZ

 

[ShellShock]

Fuck!

I hate to freakin say it but shit...this shitty place I got cant handle no freakin 1000lb weight

You know what Rick if you wanna go on with the prodject go ahead kuz im sure others want to learn how to do this..as for me Im just gonna have to throw another dream of mine in the fuckin trash kuz I aint got no MONEY to afford a better place...

You know if I ever get another place and you do end up going on with the project Im gonna come back here and follow the instructions you put down..if you do go on with the project that is...

I think it would be pretty cool though if you would still provide intructions on how to do something like this...

I would have never expected making it so my voice doesnt travel to the room below would be so hard...

When I first started this I thought I could just stop the sound from going through the floor and not worry about the room...but I guess the walls really do matter though huh?

My fuckin piece of shit ass home cant take the pressure though...

 

[ShellShock]

hey Rick

Hey Rick there wouldnt be a possibility to just add mass (mdf) to the floor to stop sound from going downstairs and use a much lighter board for the walls would there?

Im desperate as you can see..so any other possibilities would be great

 

[travelin travis]

I hate to freakin say it but shit...this shitty place I got cant handle no freakin 1000lb weight

You know what Rick if you wanna go on with the prodject go ahead kuz im sure others want to learn how to do this..as for me Im just gonna have to throw another dream of mine in the fuckin trash kuz I aint got no MONEY to afford a better place...

You know if I ever get another place and you do end up going on with the project Im gonna come back here and follow the instructions you put down..if you do go on with the project that is...

I think it would be pretty cool though if you would still provide intructions on how to do something like this...

I would have never expected making it so my voice doesnt travel to the room below would be so hard...

When I first started this I thought I could just stop the sound from going through the floor and not worry about the room...but I guess the walls really do matter though huh?

My fuckin piece of shit ass home cant take the pressure though...

Sorry to hear that ShellShock. Maybe you could find out your neighbors hours at home and work around it. If you can do that, you could spend your money on room treatment and probably get a better sound recorded in your room than in a booth anyway. I'd still like to see Rick's finished plan though. Like you said, maybe you could use it at a later date and I see other's around here asking about vocal booths pretty often. Don't get too discouraged man.

 

[ShellShock]

Travis

Thanx for the up's man...I do hope Rick keeps goin with the plan.. I wanna see what he got cooked up in there for us...

He got skills...maybe he can help me find an alternative like what I said above..

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

I hate to freakin say it but shit...this shitty place I got cant handle no freakin 1000lb weight

Hello Shellshock Well, what can I say except

that SUCKS .....I wish there was something more I could suggest. Short of laying down a couple of full sheets of MDF, which MAY help to some degree. But I'm afraid this won't totally cut it. Flanking around them would probably render them useless. Like I said, this is probably one of the most difficult problems to solve under the conditions and criteria you face. Hell, I wracked my brain trying to design a compromised solution that would guarantee a vast improvement over nothing. Alas, I am stumped. Unless someone can design a new set of physics. Damn. Like I said too, I'm no expert so maybe someone who IS, can pipe in here with a usefull alternative. At this point, I know of nothing else.

I do hope Rick keeps goin with the plan.

You betcha! However, I'm going to research some things first. I was tryin to rush this design through and fill in the blanks as you needed. But I would truly like to have some calculated specs on this, and find the CORRECT wieght/compression calcs for the best bang for the buck ISOLATOR. I have a pretty good idea for the venting solution, seals, knockdown construction and the materials. Now I want to KNOW what TRANSMISSION LOSS can be expected. Although, like some professionals have told me, unless you have it scientifically tested in a lab, calcs will only tell you so much. But since this is a DIY type scenario, and "I" don';t have the resources to build one, let alone to have the design tested, needless to say....its pretty much guesswork right now. But its based on solid isolation concepts, so it should meet at least your criteria. Frankly, given the time, I would also like to draw a Booth design with NO compromises other than space. But later on that.


I can tell you this though. Shellshock, I'm 61 years old and have chased this dream since the early 80's. I STILL am It has taken ME twenty years of frustration, moves, disappointments, life changing events, aging, and more. Yet, I WON"T give up. My motive is simple. I'm a Saggitarius. I started this and I'll finish it if it kills me. Which it probably will since it already broke me. So, don't give up. In the meantime, keep doing what you CAN do to keep your interest alive. Hell, I spent the entire winter just working on my console cause I had no money for even the flooring in my studio. So, don't feel alone.

Well, tomorrows another day, and like my mother always told me in times of personal frutration...you can COUNT on change. Things change, even if you DON"T want them to. So who knows, tomorrow could bring some significant enlightenment or a change for the better. If not tomorrow, the next maybe. Remember, hope springs eternal.
fitZ

 

[ShellShock]

last resort

yeah so i guess as a last resort im just going to have add a lot more mass to the floor and not worry to much about the walls...

Now Im just going to have to wait for Rick to show me how to install a light, a vent, and a area where I can load all my cords through

 

[Disasster]

Hey rick, i was told to come here by Steve. He says you can help me with makeing a vocal both.

I need some help on constructing a vocal both.

I want to build a 5X4 vocal both that is Isolated as much as possible..... and on a low budget. ....around $400.............o yea, it has to be movable to, meaning i can take it apart and move it somewhere else.

My first question is, should i put a window in it, or will that kill the isolation process. And if i did put a window in, would i want to angle the glass so that its angled toward the ground?

how would i go about doing proper ventilation for the both?

Heres a pic of a 10min drawing i did to give you an idea on what im talking about.

https://img216.imageshack.us/img216/8758/recordingbothcopy2du.jpg

Thank you
Joel

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hi Guys.Hey Joel, sorry I haven't responded sooner. Too many irons in the fire.
Well I looked at your drawing and it seems to be exactly what I'm drawing. Except for a few details. I don't have time to do anything at the moment, but I'll post some stuff tomorrow, OK? Later.
fitZ

 

[pandamonk]

On a $400 budget i don't think you're gonna be able to afford a window that's isolate enough. Also, for better isolation, it's best to decople the inner "leaf" from the outer. And also build a floating floor. Check out ricks past drawings in pages 1 and 2 of this thread.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Also, for better isolation, it's best to decople the inner "leaf" from the outer.

Just a little reality check in regards to Joels "criteria"....

.o yea, it has to be movable to, meaning i can take it apart and move it somewhere else.

This factor alone limits your choices to "decouple" one leaf from the other. To build a "composite" booth, where you have a complete "interior leaf" DECOUPLED" from the "exterior leaf", makes for VERY PRECISION machining and fabrication of the components. Besides, the only rational "decoupling" mechanism for KNOCKDOWN units, are very expensive RISC isolators of various kinds. But here is the rational for MY current design for this THREAD. This design is basically a 2 Leaf "floating room" Not much mass, no decoupling other than to the floor, since the criteria
stated the isolation TRANSMISSION LOSS GOAL, was to isolate vocal RAP sound from the inhabitants in the apartment below. NOT for isolation of sound to the room in which the booth resides. UNDERSTAND? Since this is a floating room(booth), and is within another "room"...voila! Floating room within a room...no?

Here is another problem with isolating the inner envelope from the outer envelope. Space. One of the other criteria for this booth was the ability to fabricate EACH MODULE from 4x8 sheetgoods, such as MDF. When you "design" to allow for "decoupling", you DECREASE the available square footage for the occupants, as well as increase the complexity of framing and interlocking the leafs, as well as adding weight. Also, your HEIGHT is compromised even more by decoupling complexity, which EVEN in a standard room hieght, you are already barely above the height of a standard door(80")

But thats not to say it can't be done. Afterall, these are just boxes.

So far, I've drawn every configuration I can think of, but the REALITY is in the details , which I am working on. Another area of concern is AVAILABILTY of STANDARD components. Another is skills. Another is budget. Another is tools. Another is available space to fabricate LARGE PANELS Simply assembling these requires a good sized space. Another is PRECISION CUTTING and Assembly. These "simple" boxes, are NOT that simple when it comes to fabricating the modules. Believe me. There are TONS of little tricks and setups to make it come out correctly. ONE ASSUMPTION, such as assuming a 2x4 is 2"x4" will KILL all your planning. Even if you are aware of a 2x4 actually being 1 1/2"x3 1/2", assuming they are ALL EXACTLY that size is a lesson in hindsights. Thats why ALL framing material should be either air or kiln dried GOOD LUMBER. And NEVER depend on the nominal, from the factory dimensions. ALWAYS rip your lumber to the dimension it is supposed to be, OR to the next smallest size in 1/16", 1/8" or even 1/4". In other words, RESAW all 2x2 to 1 1/2"x 1/1/2" or smaller IN BOTH DIMENSIONS. In otherwards, resaw the compnent lumber to sizes you CAN DEPEND ON. When it comes time to gluing and screwing panels to frames, YOU WILL SEE!! Another thing is ABSOLUTE SQUARENESS of the panels themselves. Because of the way sheetgoods are cut to length in the factory, you can't really depend on a panels short side being perfectly square to the long side. I ALWAYS route ONE short side square to the long side BEFORE I cut parts. And doing this is a pain in the ass if you don't have a few clamps, a good straight edge, and at LEAST a carbide blade on a skill saw, if not carbide cutters in a router.

Well guys, I WILL post some stuff tonight. But right now I have a door to move in my studio. It takes precidence today. Ha!
fitZ

 

[Disasster]

Here is some plans that i drew up.............not know that a 2X4 is actually 1 1/2" by 3 1/2".......but you get what im talking about. I dont know what im going to use to hold the frame together and i also need to plan how the door and ventalation is going to work...


https://img471.imageshack.us/img471/1337/recordingbothback5za.jpg
https://img471.imageshack.us/img471/446/recordingbothfloor6ty.jpg
https://img450.imageshack.us/img450/4848/recordingbothroof1pp.jpg
https://img471.imageshack.us/img471/6760/recordingbothside6tc.jpg
https://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6303/recordingbothwhole3dh.jpg

 

[Disasster]

Also, will this stuff work for in between the drywall?

http://www.owenscorning.com/around/sound/commercial_acoustics/acou-batts.asp

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Also, will this stuff work for in between the drywall?

Sure, if you have FULL depth studs. Probably pay premium price though compared to regular batt insulation.

Actually, I'm more interested in this:
http://www.owenscorning.com/around/sound/commercial_acoustics/acou-framing.asp
Looks like a good solution for booths. A resiliant channel built into a stud...hmmmm, I'll have to check for availability and price. Might be just the ticket for an interior decoupled leaf with a ONE STUD depth. Cool.

I dont know what im going to use to hold the frame together and i also need to plan how the door and ventalation is going to work...

The PANELS hold the fram in place. Simply screw the frame together with butt joints, run a bead of construction adheseive on one face of the frame, and lay a panel on the frame. If you have enough clamps, clamp one edge of the frame even with one long edge of the panel, and then square the frame to the panel if it has parallelegramed. But here is a reality. Don't assume anything when it comes to cutting frame parts. Always clamp each piece in place as you measure and cut till the whole frame is temporarily laid on the panel. This way you have NO surprises. This is why I suggested RESAWING your framing material. I even go so far as to surface them on a planer. As far as a door, try to use a standard solidcore door and JAMB assembly. Much easier than fabricating a jamb and hinging the door yourself. As far as ventilation is concerned, I'm planning on using computer fans with a computer power supply or 12v wall wart. A couple PULLING out hot air, and a couple supplying fresh air. I haven't designed a plenum within the walls yet or an isolated/decoupled fan/ducting but I just built my computer isolation cabinet using the same system and it works great. I built small thin plywood plenums with fans mounted in decoupled foam housings, and foamboard ducting. See it here(I haven't posted the finished pics yet. This is just the concept. Actual unit will be different for the booth.
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=148284&page=8&pp=25&highlight=diy

 

[Disasster]

Hey, thanks for the help, im going to start building it thie weekend so i need to get this planing done. How would you sujest putting 2 sheets of drywall on, put glue inbetween them?

What about something like this for the ducting for the ventaltion http://www.owenscorning.com/comminsul/products.asp?Product=288&System=81

"run a bead of construction adheseive on one face of the frame, and lay a panel on the frame." When you say this, do you mean screw teh frame together without any drywall, then put adheseive on and then the drywall?

I was thinking of trying to build all the sections (roof, floor, sides ect.) and then assemble them together....

 

[JeffLancaster]

I hate to freakin say it but shit...this shitty place I got cant handle no freakin 1000lb weight

Hey Shellshock - I hate to state the obvious, but sometimes people get so discouraged when they run into a problem like this, that they overlook the simple solution. Now, I don't know where you live but I'm assuming it's some sort of apartment building? Why not talk to the landlord, and have him put you down for the next available ground floor unit that comes along. Assuming all the units are the same, the cost should be the same, right? Then you could build the vocal booth! Just a thought...

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hey Jeff, where in Oregon are you? I'm in Coos Bay.
fitZ