Anyone know Gretsch guitars?

[Mick Doobie]

The guy wants $650, says it's a '62,...I think. I'm suspicious, doesn't sound right. I'll have it in my hands all this weekend to take a better look.

It's a badass off the beaten path body style. Maybe a Duo Jet? What I don't like is, it looks like maybe the Bigsby has been replaced, gold plated? I'm not at all a fan of gold plating. I have no idea about the tuning pegs/machine heads, surely not original and I don't care for those. Pick guard would have to go or switched out. From what I understand it has the back pad (cushion) thing on the back, not particularly fond of that either. But I really dig the body style and overall vibe.

If it's really a '62 and not just some kind of reissue, it's easily worth twice the asking price. Is there anything to look for to determine it's vintage?

Opinions?

 

[Greg_L]

Can you get the serial number? That will tell you everything you need to know.

 

[Mick Doobie]

I'll have it all weekend to take a look.

From what I understand, on the back of the headstock it has stamped numbers, but they don't seem to make sense from my limited research. I've read that there may be more to be found by taking off the control plate(s).

I'm still trying to dig for information before having it in hand. In the meantime I thought I would throw it out here to see what you guys might know or think.

Doesn't (didn't ) Malcolm Young play a similar model to the one above?

 

[muttley600]

Re-issue... and the price is about right for a good one.

An original 62 duo would be nearly six or seven times that even at a good price.

 

[muttley600]

Ask yourself why would he sell a guitar worth between 3 to 4k when he could take it to the local store and get 2K cash on the hip?

If for some reason he can prove it is a 62 bite his arm off.. but it is either stolen or he wants to hide it...

 

[muttley600]

On the guitar itself, yes the tuners are not duo or early gretsch, scratchplate is not early gretsch and thats without even looking closely... The first ting I would do is establish if the binding is 62 material. If it is then it would have shrunk back long ago.

 

[Mick Doobie]

Exactly.....unless he is just a dumbass.

He's pawning it off to my wife as a 62, for $650. Says he "just wants it to have a good home". Fine, bring it home and i'll take a look. If it's really a 62 i'll make sure it's real happy here.

Researching serial numbers....

 

[Mick Doobie]

Thanks Muttley

Yeah, tuners appear to be Grover Imperials....not on the market until early 70s(?)

 

[Wish]

New reissues aren't cheap either.

Gretsch G6122 1962 Country Gentleman - Walnut Stain | Sweetwater.com

 

[Mick Doobie]

Information trickling in...

The guy is not a guitar player. However, he acquired the guitar in 1980 shortly after graduating college. Guy who owned it needed cash for an insurance payment.

So apparently it's at least pre 1980.

Oh, and he says it "has a buzz" when you plug it up.

 

[Mick Doobie]

Yep, it's a '62.

It's a little beat up around the back edge of the body. But the binding on the front has no rot or dings, does have a little bit of separation between the first layer of white and the center black layer. Had to lower the poles on the neck pup as the strings were making contact and buzzing. Had to move the bridge way forward to correct intonation. Plays sweet.

However, plug it up and all I got was hum/buzz, no sound from the strings. Tried seating the plug into the jack and managed to get a bit of sound through the hum. Took off the back cushion thing and opened the access cover and this is what I found. Some knuckle head has been in there. You can see he didn't protect the body, burn marks from soldering. It practically disintegrated in my hand.

Muttley,

The two shield wires obviously go to the ground tab on the jack, the red wire to the positive tab. Are the two black wires supposed to remain jumpered together and free standing, or should they also be soldered to the positive tab? Appreciate any information or help you can provide.

It plays great, I can't wait to plug 'er in. Evidently the guy wanted the quick cash rather than the headache of sorting the problems.

 

[muttley600]

Hah, It looks quite a bit more beat up when you get i9n close.

As for the wiring loom. I'm not sure what has gone on there but Gretsch are pretty good at putting up support info. A lot will depend on how it has been wired and if it has been tampered with. Judging by the fact that much of the hardware has been swapped out and the look of that end jack I'd say there is a strong possibility that would be the case. Did that thing have a standby switch? Some Gretsch guitars did? Not sure if that one did. If so then those wires prolly should be routed there and just the hot to the jack tip.

Start here

Gretsch® Support

You can strip the wires on an old cable to test those wires before you solder it up. Just twist or clip the leads to the ground and tip to see what you get. If you can identify which is which or what is what you are going to have to dig deeper. The wiring diagrammes on that link should get you going.

All the same a 62 for that price is a steal.. Even if you have to put some leg work and time into fixing her up.

 

[Mick Doobie]

Thanks Muttley.

I dove in last night. I'm not a guitar tech, and my soldering skills are a bit rusty, so go lightly.

I first just clipped shields to ground on jack, the red to the point. Got nothing. I then threw caution to the wind and clipped the 2 black wires that are soldered together to the point as well. Bingo. Actually at first it was periodic bingo, so I clipped directly to the guitar cable ends and got a good signal. So I thought maybe the guitar jack was failing. I was ready to rush out real quick to get a new jack but tried it one more time, and it worked. No hum. Now that i've got it all back together i'm getting a periodic interruption when the end of the plugged in cable moves. The jack seems a pretty simple device, but could it be failing or questionable/ Is it possible that going over the surface areas with emery cloth might make for a better connection?...or should I consider replacing the jack entirely? I don't suppose it matters a lot, but i'd like to keep original parts of possible.

Yes, it does have a standby switch, which incidentally isn't doing anything. Up, down, middle, i'm still getting sound. Should I have tried clipping the black wires to ground rather than the point? Is it possible that I bypassed the bypass by hooking the black wires to the point?

As for the condition, it's not museum quality or even collector quality, maybe. Some parts have been changed. Knobs I am told are Baldwin. I've removed the shitty guard until I replace it with something more period. The added Bigsby is not original, of course. Ugly Imperial tuners. There is a crack in one of the pup surrounds(whatever they're called). There is a bit of a separation in the binding on the upper cutout. Should I try to stabilize that separation, possibly shoot a bit of epoxy or something in there?

Ah, one more thing: The tone switch, in the center(which I assume is no tone alteration), everything sounds sweet. But whether in the up or down position there seems to be quite a drop in output by approx 1/3, and the tone goes what I would think is unusually dark. Could the caps on the switch be questionable?

btw, I received faulty info, serial number was not stamped into the back of the headstock, which would have dated it '67. They were on rear access plate, consistent with '62.

I have a feeling this thing is going to be a work in progress. But what the hell, it'll be fun. pics below

 

[muttley600]

Thanks Muttley.

I dove in last night. I'm not a guitar tech, and my soldering skills are a bit rusty, so go lightly.

I first just clipped shields to ground on jack, the red to the point. Got nothing. I then threw caution to the wind and clipped the 2 black wires that are soldered together to the point as well. Bingo. Actually at first it was periodic bingo, so I clipped directly to the guitar cable ends and got a good signal. So I thought maybe the guitar jack was failing. I was ready to rush out real quick to get a new jack but tried it one more time, and it worked. No hum. Now that i've got it all back together i'm getting a periodic interruption when the end of the plugged in cable moves. The jack seems a pretty simple device, but could it be failing or questionable/ Is it possible that going over the surface areas with emery cloth might make for a better connection?...or should I consider replacing the jack entirely? I don't suppose it matters a lot, but i'd like to keep original parts of possible.

Yes, it does have a standby switch, which incidentally isn't doing anything. Up, down, middle, i'm still getting sound. Should I have tried clipping the black wires to ground rather than the point? Is it possible that I bypassed the bypass by hooking the black wires to the point?

As for the condition, it's not museum quality or even collector quality, maybe. Some parts have been changed. Knobs I am told are Baldwin. I've removed the shitty guard until I replace it with something more period. The added Bigsby is not original, of course. Ugly Imperial tuners. There is a crack in one of the pup surrounds(whatever they're called). There is a bit of a separation in the binding on the upper cutout. Should I try to stabilize that separation, possibly shoot a bit of epoxy or something in there?

Ah, one more thing: The tone switch, in the center(which I assume is no tone alteration), everything sounds sweet. But whether in the up or down position there seems to be quite a drop in output by approx 1/3, and the tone goes what I would think is unusually dark. Could the caps on the switch be questionable?

btw, I received faulty info, serial number was not stamped into the back of the headstock, which would have dated it '67. They were on rear access plate, consistent with '62.

I have a feeling this thing is going to be a work in progress. But what the hell, it'll be fun. pics belowView attachment 90234View attachment 90235View attachment 90236

My best guess as it's been a long while since I had a Gresch like that through my hands is that the wires you now have on the jack socket should go to the standby switch. If you check out the third diagramme in the link I gave and it should confirm. You normally only have the ground and hot going to the jack. The standby switch would just interrupt the the hot signal with a simple on/off. At least thats how I remember it..

You may want to sign up at the Grestch forums and ask there it's a good forum for all things Gretsch and you will get sound advice. If you still are not sure just check back here.

Yes the jack socket is an easy swap out and you can keep the original (if it is original). It's non destructive work so you can always revert.

Jack sockets do get bent out of shape and older ones often don't fit modern 1/4" jack leads to well.

 

[Mick Doobie]

Hm, maybe the bypass switch was shot so someone just soldered the two wires together.

Thanks for the link, and thanks for taking the time. I appreciate it.

 

[Mick Doobie]

Mutt

I reckon I have a ground problem. It quiets down when I touch pups or knobs/controls. But not strings or bridge. It originally had a Burns tailpiece trem bar. It now has a Bigsby, which covers a hole in the top of the body that accommodated the Burns. Sounds pretty fucked up and i'm not digging it, but from what I understand it is what it is, common and normal. Slim chance i'll ever find a Burns even if I wanted to restore, and apparently from what I am told no one prefers the Burns to Bigsby anyway. So....

When I change the strings I had the opportunity to get a good see at the hole. Looking into the hole there's a small opening in the inner block leading into the controls access. I'm thinking maybe run a ground through that hole and somehow ground the Bigsby/bridge/strings so at least when I fret it will quiet the buzz/ground noise. What do you think? Inner access is a pain if not impossible on that thing.

I'm kind of at a loss on whether there is actually an additional ground problem that needs to be sorted, and where to start to find it. If I could get better access I would consider eliminating things from the chain to isolate, but the very small access holes on the back make that plan difficult. Think maybe it's just a 60 cycle hum that I should live with after grounding the trem/strings?

 

[muttley600]

It's common practice to ground the bridge on most guitars with a metal bridge block. Just run a thin strand of wire throw the hole so it catches the bridge somewhere hidden (in your case prolly the stud post) then connect that to the case on one of the pots or the easiest ground loop you can find. Thats your first thing to check. All grounding has to be continual so that would be the next thing to check, make sure that all ground wires are soldered properly and that you can trace continuity to the jack socket.

Those things are virtually impossible to shield 100% but you should be able to get it damn near quiet under normal conditions. Plugging in near Strip lights, monitors etc... will always make it worse.

 

[DM60]

See if you can find an inspection mirror to get a better look.

Also, you might know this, but I just learned it, if the bridge moves, make sure you tune it. I have a hollow top and the bridge is not fixed, when I changed the strings, I put the bridge near where it was, when I tuned it up and started playing up the neck, the guitar was really out of tune. I corrected this by checking the tuning on the open and 12th fret, moving the bridge until was in tune at open and 12.

Just FYI in case you were not aware.

 

[muttley600]

Also, no need to ground the bridge as that is in contact with tailpiece via the strings which you be grounding to the control loom..

Access to the wiring loom on something like that would be done by removing a pickup and working through that aperture. Not easy but if you go for it I can give you a few time saving tips..

 

[jimistone]

I had a Gretsch country gentleman that I traded a Japanese SG copy for in 1976. It was a late 50's early 60's. Blonde finish. Just like the one on Neil Youngs "after the gold rush" album. It was a beautiful guitar but totally useless for anything besides rockabilly and country. I moved it on down the line for 500 Bucks.
The most I would pay for ANY used electric guitar is $500.
Les paul... $500
Vintage strat.... $500
1959 les paul burst....$500
The actual telecaster that Roy Buchanan owned.... $500

That's it....top dollar I'm going to pay. The only time in my life I paid more than $500 was for a mint condition guild DV52 acoustic that I shelled out $1100 bucks for.
I don't know what got into me on that one.

It's a freakin' awesome acoustic but I'm still kicking myself for dishing out that kind if dough for a guitar