Analog tracking, dump for digital editing?

[Granada]

Hello everyone,

I have been reading as much of this forum as I can for the last month or so and have learned alot. Throughout all the things I have read a few questions arose.

I am looking for a reel to reel but am not sure what to buy. I can buy a Teac-3440S for 225 locally but for some reason have my heart set on A Tascam- 38 8 track. I want more than 4 tracks at a time.

I eventually would like to be able to track on the reel to reel and then dump the tracks into cubase sx3 ( I have a firepod right now as well). To do this I understand you need to lay down midi time code on one of the tracks? Would this take away one of my tracks? So if I got the 3440S I would only have 3 usable tracks? or the 38-8 only 7 usable tracks?

Also if I plan to dump the tracks into Cubase ( if this is possible) What is the purpose of a external mixer? this might seem like a silly question but will help me try to fit this puzzle together.

Last question, its a quickie, How much better of a machine is the TRS - 8 than the 38 - 8? Built in DBX is a plus but are there any other perks?

Thanks again for the help you guys have already given me, much appreciated.

 

[jpmorris]

AFAIK the only time you need a timecode is if you're locking two decks together, or laying down sequenced audio on the machine a track at a time.

If you're simply tracking on the deck and then importing into a DAW, all you need is an 8-channel audio interface and you can dump all 8 tracks simultaneously.

If you're going from the computer onto tape, track by track, you will need to use a timecode, which is usually recorded on the last track, giving you 7 left (or 3 for a 4-track machine).

 

[poopchute]

I would get a TSR-8 over the 38-8 anyday. Its nicer looking, newer, and better sounding IMO.
Either way you'll love going ANAL. I did.

 

[Granada]

So if I wanted to monitor my tracks I dumped on the DAW and record more tracks through the reel to reel, how should I go about doing that? would I just monitor through the computer, press record on the R2R and try to line them up using my ear?

This is going to be my second try at R2R, I had a 3440 5 years ago. I left it over my drummers house and when our band broke up his mom sold it in a garage sale. I was (still am) livid. We used to set up 1 mic in the middle of the room and jam. The sound was really really good, now after going digital i want that sound back.

What are the disadvantages of the TSR 8 only having 2 heads?
So if I am dumping my tracks right into cubase, is there a need for a external mixer? I heard you weren't really supposed to EQ before going into the reel to reel

Thanks
Adam

 

[Hi_Flyer]

I like this hybrid stuff, I have been doing it since I bought a 38 in the springtime...

I don't know specifics about your DAW and interface, but here is what I do: I use a Mackie Onyx mixer and Reaper and an eight track deck. The mackie onyx mixer is really nice for this, it lets me split an incoming signal from the same channel on the mixer and route to both the DAW and the tape deck, then I take the signal off the repro head of the deck and send it back into the Mackie board on another channel. I record those two tracks into Reaper, and use the "straight to disk" track as a guide to nudge the "tape track" forward so there is no guesswork as to where it needs to be (You need a three head deck though, can't do it with a TSR8).

You will need an external mixer to track to a tape deck: you need it to amplify and route mic level signals, you need it to monitor what you are recording, you need it hear the playback of what you just recorded. Even when I track to DAW, I monitor off the board so I don't have to deal with latency.

RE:Eq
My take is that there really isn't much need to EQ in 24-bit digital since you have more dynamic range and a higher resolution (16-bit is another story). also, what you do while tracking can not be undone, so if you inexperienced and you screw it up, you're stuck with it. The same thing is true with tape, but another school of thought says that you can get more good signal to tape by cutting out some of the stuff you know you don't need, (like some low EQ cuts on the guitars or vocals) so back in the analog days it was maybe more common to "sculpt" the sound somewhat before going to tape. If you are inexperienced, its best to just leave EQ to the mixing phase.

 

[Granada]

That is a cool feature with the onyx board. Please correct me if I am wrong but the end result of your setup has 2 tracks of each single signal with one being right into the DAW and one going through the 38? Is this a feature specific to the only onyx models?

I am still novice at Reel to Reel terms, sorry, bare with me. So when you said

"I take the signal off the repro head of the deck and send it back into the Mackie board on another channel"

What is the repro head?

I am also new to analog mixers. I started with a firepod and always used cubase LE ( which I have now upgraded to SX3 (Now they have 4, damn..))
I have heard you are supposed to get a mixer with twice as many channels as your recorder, is this for monitoring reasons?
My original plan included a older tascam mixer, I heard good things about the 3 series, did I hear right?
So a mixer is a must have? I can't plug right into the deck?
If your using external pre's where would you put them in the signal chain?
Sorry for the bombardment of questions, I still have alot to learn.


I also stumbled into a Teac AN 50 Dobly noise reduction and a Advent Model 101 Noise reduction unit at goodwill today, took them both for 9 bucks.

Haven't got a chance to test them yet, anyone know anything about them?

Thanks alot
Adam

 

[Hi_Flyer]

Please correct me if I am wrong but the end result of your setup has 2 tracks of each single signal with one being right into the DAW and one going through the 38?

yes.

Is this a feature specific to the only onyx models?

I'm not really sure, I think the onyx was sorta unique when it came out being that it was a mixer that you could just plug a FW adapter into, rather than a dedicated audio interface. I think other manufacturers have copied this idea since.

I am still novice at Reel to Reel terms, sorry, bare with me. So when you said

"I take the signal off the repro head of the deck and send it back into the Mackie board on another channel"

What is the repro head?

Three head decks have an erase head, a record(or sync) head and a repro (or playback) head. most decks should allow you to switch back and forth between monitoring an input signal, the record head (for overdubs) and the repro head (for mixing). This will make more sense when you worked with a deck for awhile.

I am also new to analog mixers. I started with a firepod and always used cubase LE ( which I have now upgraded to SX3 (Now they have 4, damn..))
I have heard you are supposed to get a mixer with twice as many channels as your recorder, is this for monitoring reasons?
My original plan included a older tascam mixer, I heard good things about the 3 series, did I hear right?
So a mixer is a must have? I can't plug right into the deck?
If your using external pre's where would you put them in the signal chain?
Sorry for the bombardment of questions, I still have alot to learn.

not too sure about the mixers, I'll defer to somebody that is a little more knowledgeable... but yeah, you need channels for monitoring and the Onyx mixers for example are designed more for live use than studio recording. However, I will say that I think you are pretty safe with those Tascam mixers that were designed for use with their tape decks.

yeah, you pretty much do *need* a mixer though. sure you can plug outboard pres right into the channels, but its kind of a hassle, and you still need monitoring for what you have recorded. if you still wanna use outboard pres, most of them time you can just plug them right into the inputs on the deck, but ya might need some new cabling though, some of the consumer type decks like the 38 have unblanced RCA inputs/ouputs, some have XLR. my Otari has unbalanced XLRs with pin 3 hot, which required some solder work on my cables.

I also stumbled into a Teac AN 50 Dobly noise reduction and a Advent Model 101 Noise reduction unit at goodwill today, took them both for 9 bucks.

Haven't got a chance to test them yet, anyone know anything about them?

you are probably not gonna be able to use these, but I run my deck with no NR and its just fine.