Analog tape studio setup - recommendations?

[NicDefn]

Hey everyone!

How you all doing?

Just wondering if you could give some advice if you guys have time to reply. As im getting a bit stuck with the best step to take forward?

EQUIPMENT LIST
Apple Mac Desktop
DAW = LOGIC 8
MONITORS = KRK ROKIT 8s
AUDIO INTERFACE = MOTU 828 MKIII
MIDI INTERFACE = MOTU MIDI EXPRESS XT
MIXER = TASCAM MIDISTUDIO 688 (8 CHANNELS)
DRUM MACHINE/SAMPLER = MPC 3000
SYNTHS = ROLAND SH-101/ YAMAHA DX7/ KORG M1/ KORG POLY 800
EFFECTS = ROLAND SPACE ECHO RE-150/ BOSS DISTORTION PEDAL
MIDI/CV CONVERTER = KENTON PRO SOLO MKII

Ill try to explain as clear as possible, but basically what i want to achieve is a studio setup where i can have....as follows

1) ALL 8 OUTPUTS OF MPC 3000 FED INTO INPUTS OF ANALOG MIXER
2) ALL OUTPUTS OF SYNTHS (7 IN TOTAL) FED INTO INPUTS OF ANALOG MIXER
3) ROLAND SPACE ECHO + OTHER EXTERNAL EFFECTS ROUTED INTO MIXER SO I CAN SEND EACH CHANNEL OF THE MIXER INDIVIDUALLY TO THESE SENDS ( SO I CAN CONTROL THE WET/DRY SIGNAL AND HOW MUCH EACH CHANNEL IS AFFECTED BY THE EFFECTS)
4) OUTPUTS OF MIXER ROUTED INTO INPUTS OF MOTU 828MKIII (FOR TRACKING AND SO I CAN DO MORE COMPLICATED ARRANGEMENTS IN LOGIC 8)
4) AFTER THE PROJECT IS FINISHED IN MY DAW, SEND A STEREO OUT TO MY TASCAM 688 AND RECORD THE FINAL MIXDOWN TO TAPE CASSETTE)
5) CONVERT THE AUDIO ON THE TAPE CASSETTE ONTO CD (FOR DEMO PURPOSES)

What i am struggling with, is that i need more than a 8 channel mixer for all these inputs of equipment. So was wandering what would be a good 16channel analog mixer to purchase which can be fully integrated with my DAW, possibly via firewire. I was looking at the Mackie Onyx1640i, unless anybody has a better suggestion....as these are rather pricey.

Also say if i did have a 16 channel how would i send the 16 outs of the mixer to my MOTU 828 MKIII as it only has 8 in/out?

Another thing is how would i send the final mixdown of my project in logic 8 to the tascam 688 to record on to tape and also does anybody know the best way to convert tape cassette to CD?

I know theres a lot to go through here and work out, but if anybody could shed any light on this it would be greatly appreciated and i just want to achieve an easy workflow that wont hinder any musical creativity.

Cheers
Nic

 

[Steenamaroo]

Hi there.

If you bought a 16 channel mixer that integrates via firewire, you'd be bypassing the MOTU altogether. Your mixer would become your interface.


The easiest way to add eight more channels of IO to your motu interface is to buy something like a behringer (i know!) ada8000 and connect it via adat.
It actually gets decent enough rep as a converter.

Is there any possibility that eight of your channels are likely to be dry at any given time?
If they don't all need to be altered, you could have 7/8 going to a mixer with effects and whatnot, then on into the motu line ins.

Your other 8 channels could just go direct to the behringer line ins, right?


If that idea is too much of a limitation for you, then sure, you'd need something like the ada8000 and a 16 channel mixer upgrade, OR a 16+ channel firewire mixer.
Analog mixers aren't really my turf; I'm sure someone else can give you a recommendation on that.




Another option is this. On OSX you can also just buy another interface and use the two as one (aggregate device), but I imagine using adat is less complicated and more stable.
Plus, that'd probably be a more expensive route.

 

[A Reel Person]

Multiple Posts; Multiple Adjoinders!

Wow, there is really a lot there to take into account!



Not to be critical, but in the way you framed your question, maybe it's not really "analog tape studio" you're specifying.
I'll kind of shoot from the hip here:

Tascam M520 > DAW >> M520 >> Tascam 32.

Recommending you purchase a Tascam M520, 20 channel/8 buss mixer with plenty of aux and effect routing capability,...
Record thru the mixer into your DAW,...
Output your DAW back into the M520,...
Purchase and Master to a Tascam 32, true mastering machine.

The addition of an M520 and Tascam 32 would fulfill the MINIMUM specifics of "Analog Tape Studio Setup", in light of what your other stated requirements would be. The only real upgrade on the Analog side you may then consider is an actual analog Tape multitrack,... a wide open array of gear but perhaps a Tascam 38, TSR8, MSR-16, MS-16 or MSR-24. This would enable you to go all analog in production and not DAW at all. However, the TSR8, MSR-16 and MSR-24 can be synchronized and used in tandem with a DAW, if that floats your boat, but there's additional hardware needed and raises the complexity of the system significantly. I've never done that, nor ever cared to, but at least it's a feasible option for those tech savvy enough to put it all together.

This all leaves the Tascam 688 out in the cold, which on other terms I think is a fabulous 8-track Portastudio in it's own right, but may not be doing your proposed music setup or the music itself any service at this point. It's a significant distance from being a true mastering machine. In the turnaround I'd recommend using the 688 for what it was designed for and is really good at: 8-track cassette multitracking.

These recommendations also have no "interface" options at all, firewire or otherwise, and are all purebred analog components.

However, that's MO and there are a lot of different ways to skin this cat,... so YMMV.

Others will come along with different and equally valid recommendations.
=================

I think...



IMO the best way to convert audio cassette to CD is to play the tape back thru the analog realm and route the analog ouputs of the tape to a computer soundcard Line In or some other sort of computer audio interface inputs, in stereo,... recording to CD quality format 16/44.1, lay out the sound files into tracks and burn CDs.

If your Analog Tape is of the multitrack variety, do same via audio playback and mixing in the analog realm and feed the output in stereo to a comp' soundcard or audio interface, etc.

 

[jpmorris]

It sounds like you're sending the stereo mix to the TASCAM 688. That's not a good idea, since you'll either get a rather thin-sounding result if you send it to a stereo pair (low tape speed + razor-thin tracks) or strange phasing errors if you record Left on half the tracks and Right on the other half.

If you want to bounce the final mix to tape, a 1/4" half-track machine like the TASCAM 32 or a BR20 would be a much better plan.

Regarding expanding the digital IO, can you get another 828 and lock them together?

 

[A Reel Person]

Well, I disagree...

F/I, if you recorded all 8 tracks on the 688 in (4) Left/Right stereo pairs simultaneously, there would be no phase anomaly in the playback. I understand what you're saying and why, but it may be a minor misunderstanding.

However, OT, if someone wanted to migrate a prerecorded 4-track Portastudio tape to continue laying tracks on a 688, 488 or 488mkII, based on how the 4-tracker's tracks 1-4 overlay the 688's tracks 1-8, there would indeed be an undesirable phase shift anomaly between the tracks (1/2) and (3/4).

On the other hand, my reasoning for NOT using the 688 as a pseudo mastering machine is:
1) like you said, a single pair of matched tracks would be razor thin and decidedly lofi, and...
2) even the entire set of 8-tracks recorded in 4-stereo pairs simultaneously would be a lofi assault on the higher fidelity provided by the DAW, and is nowhere near true "mastering" deck fidelity. I just don't think it's worth the trade off in fidelity,... to borrow a phrase posted on this board a little while ago.

 

[Blue Jinn]

The 520 has a rather substantial footprint. OP seems to want to track to digital, with the option of some digital manipulation, but essentially using the DAW in lieu of a tape deck: primarily mix and process outboard. So the 520 would be perfect with 20x8 and 4 effects sends. He could probably find something that isn't quite so huge though. He could potentially get by with a 4 buss board, if it had direct outs maybe a 320? I like the 520 for the it's myriad routing possibilities, and if space, shipping costs, and muscle mass aren't an issue for OP than I'd say goforit. I'm not clear what he wants to do with the 688, and he may want to track to the 688 first, and then xfer those tracks to the DAW. I don't know a lot about hte 688, I'd assume you can output individual tracks??? (Dave ---?)

 

[A Reel Person]

Ok!...

Quick reply to specific question: The 688 outputs 8-tracks simultaneously on RCA Tape Outs.


Now the more dubious part...

OUTPUTS OF MIXER ROUTED INTO INPUTS OF MOTU 828MKIII (FOR TRACKING)

Here's where I immediatley jumped to M520 territory, as M520's 8-Buss Out/16-Tape RTN and MOTU 828MKIII is 8-ANALOG IN/10-ANALOG OUT Up til this point IMO there's no logical point in calling this topic "Analog Tape Studio Setup".

AFTER THE PROJECT IS FINISHED IN MY DAW, SEND A STEREO OUT TO MY TASCAM 688 AND RECORD THE FINAL MIXDOWN TO TAPE CASSETTE)

Here's where the "Analog Tape" factor of the thread title comes into the topic or question, i.e., using the 688 as a "Mastering" machine, an idea I'd basically recommend against, because if you have all this DAW setup and even a front end M520 with tons of headroom and dynamic range, you're taking this BIG sounding audio and pouring it all into a thimball. That's MO. My 2nd Recmd' = Tascam 32 for mastering/mixdown deck, if you're really intent on following the logic of the title "Analog Tape Studio Setup".

Ok. MO. YMMV.