muttley600
Banned
Oh and epoxy can be reversed with heat. So can titebond but it isn't as reverse friendly... Cascamite can not be undone and neither can contact adhesive. At least not without losing the veneer.
Adding veneer to my old bass
- Thread starter Chili
- Start date
Chili
Site Moderator
So, after looking at Anfontan's thread, I'm curious if I should paint the whole neck here. As you can see, I stopped and inch or so down the neck with overspray. It looks okay, but maybe I should do the whole neck. this was a Satin finish Dark Walnut colored Lacquer spray paint.
What do you guys think??
Chili
Site Moderator
Chili
Site Moderator
Chili
Site Moderator
I'm having a little problem with the clearcoat. I sprayed the sunburst on the head and completely painted the neck. When I went to put on a clearcoat, it lifted the paint; as in bubbled and peeled. I waited a day or so between paint and clearcoat. I suspect the weather is too hot for the lacquer finish. We've been pushing over 100F (37C) everyday.
I sanded it all back and will redo it. This time I am cooling the neck and lacquer can in my office before going to the garage to spray.
The body came out good. It's been well over a week since I put on the clearcoat and it seems okay. I will probably buff it soon. I won't use any compound because I left the grain open and I worry about rubbing compound getting into the pores. Is that a valid concern?
I sanded it all back and will redo it. This time I am cooling the neck and lacquer can in my office before going to the garage to spray.
The body came out good. It's been well over a week since I put on the clearcoat and it seems okay. I will probably buff it soon. I won't use any compound because I left the grain open and I worry about rubbing compound getting into the pores. Is that a valid concern?
JCH
El Nacho
I'm about the last person who should give advice about finishing, but I always try to do a sample before proceeding with the work piece to avoid these kind of problems. It's cool that it didn't affect the body.
A good way to avoid reactions between different finishing products is to spray a coat of shellac in between them. It will act as a barrier and seal the surface underneath. If you're doing a burst or a fade taking this step will protect the base coat from your clear burning into it, and making it blurry.
Nice Work
muttley600
Banned
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Always test on scrap.
Shellac can be use as a key coat but shouldn't be necessary..
Always test on scrap.
Shellac can be use as a key coat but shouldn't be necessary..
JohnWatkins
New member
It's never too hot for lacquer. The hotter the better.
muttley600
Banned
Not true.
There is an optimum temp for all lacquers. If the ambient temp and air movement isn't right then the solvents will gas off from the surface too quickly and harden forming a skin which traps the solvent deeper in the coat. This can result in crazing, rippling, peel and in extreme cases bleed into lower coats and poor adhesion.
Each lacquer comes with a data sheet on which the working temps are given. You can get more info from the tech dept of the manufacturer who will give you load rates fro different environments and applications.
Chili
Site Moderator
On my hunt for an answer (the internet can truly be a good thing!!), I read something very similar. Looking at the can more closely it says nothing hotter than 90F (32C). That's almost impossible here except for the winter.
I sanded down the neck and removed most of the paint then placed the neck and the paint can in my office to cool off. Reshot the neck yesterday and now I'm letting it sit a few days before putting a clearcoat on. The neck and can of clearcoat are back in my office cooling off until I'm ready to spray it on. Hopefully, this will work.
muttley600
Banned
When it gets really hot here which isn't very often, I will normally shoot the final coats late at night as thing cool down. Just lately we have had a bit of a heat wave here and even in my conditioned booth it has been getting quite hot. With a rattle can you can immerse them in cold water for a bit to take the edge off and lay up a little thinner than you normally would. On really hot days I will keep the lacquer pot in a fridge until I need it. The work piece should also be cool for that to work.
Moving the work piece out of the booth is not some thing I like to do as it increases the risk of getting contamination on the finish. Clear coats need to be just that to get a truly pristine finish. It maybe be you best bet but make sure that you hoover the area first and once it has settled keep all doors shut for as long as the lacquer needs to gas off to touch dry. Should be hours not days..
Moving the work piece out of the booth is not some thing I like to do as it increases the risk of getting contamination on the finish. Clear coats need to be just that to get a truly pristine finish. It maybe be you best bet but make sure that you hoover the area first and once it has settled keep all doors shut for as long as the lacquer needs to gas off to touch dry. Should be hours not days..
muttley600
Banned
I'm assuming that your colour and clear are the same type and brand?
Chili
Site Moderator
I'm about the last person who should give advice about finishing, but I always try to do a sample before proceeding with the work piece to avoid these kind of problems. It's cool that it didn't affect the body.
A good way to avoid reactions between different finishing products is to spray a coat of shellac in between them. It will act as a barrier and seal the surface underneath. If you're doing a burst or a fade taking this step will protect the base coat from your clear burning into it, and making it blurry.
Nice Work
Thanks!!
I was using scraps for experimenting, but ran out. I have more sheets of veneer, but those are for later projects. In a sense, this cheapo bass is my scratch pad. I was hoping it would not have any flaws, but for a learning tool, it's working very good.
Chili
Site Moderator
Thanks for confirming my theory on the temp issue.
There was some fine print that said to spray clearcoat on top of the paint within 2 hours or wait 2 days. The 2 hours didn't work, so I'm letting it sit.
Both are lacquer, but not the same brand.
muttley600
Banned
The reason for the 2 hours or two days is exactly because of what you have experienced. If you go on soft it will gas off easily, ie within two hours. If you lay up hard, ie after two days sufficient gassing off will have occurred to let the top coat sit without sinking into the hardened lacquer. It will just key into the top. Anything in between and the skin on the base layers will trap solvent and you will add to the problem by laying up fresh lacquer inhibiting the gassing off.
I asked about the same brand/type because you can have other issues if you try and spray acrylic over enamel or vice versa.. Best to stick with the same type and brand unless you are confident that it will work. Just a heads up.
You can test on scrap that isn't of the same type if you aren't worried about build or drop in. It will still give you an idea of how the lacquer handles while laying up.
Finishing can be a mine field if you haven't got a decent set up. It's one of those things you learn as you go and when you have a routine that works. Stick with it. I hate changing brands let alone lacquer types.
muttley600
Banned
I'd guess that with the temp at the top end of the range you had the top part of the coat gassing off two quickly and forming a skin well within the two hour window. The solvent deeper in the coat would then get trapped and take a LOT longer than normal to gas off. When you work at the the top end of the temp range you have to work quickly or spray thinner. People tend to want to rush the finishing as they view the job as nearly done. Thats when most of the problems crop up. Take your time and go the slow route.
murrayatuptown
New member
Finish on the Yamaha
I guess it depends on the price range, but somewhere I read that many relatively modern finishes that are not nitrocellulose, which would be unlikely on the implied low cost Yamaha (which is relative), can be polyurethane finishes that are very durable, and sometimes hard to remove.
I took the markings (model, s/n, etc.) off a really cheap Yamaha Strat clone with acetone...the 'info' came off very easily but barely did anything to the neck finish...if anything at all. The slight dullness I may have imagined could be residue, as I just used acetone & a cotton swab.
(I took that info off because I was going to start modifying the instrument, and it was their lowest life form...the Yamaha 'connection' to this product was distanced by the phrase ..."by Yamaha" on it...they didn't want there to be any confusion. ;O)
Oops, I just realized my response is a little too late...progress has advanced well beyond where I am in the reading!
I guess it depends on the price range, but somewhere I read that many relatively modern finishes that are not nitrocellulose, which would be unlikely on the implied low cost Yamaha (which is relative), can be polyurethane finishes that are very durable, and sometimes hard to remove.
I took the markings (model, s/n, etc.) off a really cheap Yamaha Strat clone with acetone...the 'info' came off very easily but barely did anything to the neck finish...if anything at all. The slight dullness I may have imagined could be residue, as I just used acetone & a cotton swab.
(I took that info off because I was going to start modifying the instrument, and it was their lowest life form...the Yamaha 'connection' to this product was distanced by the phrase ..."by Yamaha" on it...they didn't want there to be any confusion. ;O)
Oops, I just realized my response is a little too late...progress has advanced well beyond where I am in the reading!
Chili
Site Moderator
Yup, the finish coat and red paint was easy to remove. It was that darn undercoat that was difficult.
On the same note about the poly finish; I went to guitar center yesterday to look at some veneered guitars and some had a large heaping of plastic. I'm guessing that was a poly finish. Much different than a nitro finish.
No problem. Welcome to the site.
On the same note about the poly finish; I went to guitar center yesterday to look at some veneered guitars and some had a large heaping of plastic. I'm guessing that was a poly finish. Much different than a nitro finish.
No problem. Welcome to the site.
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
If they use the same sorta thing that piano manufacturers use to get that super gloss then it's a catalyzed poly ..... as a piano tuner I had several courses on those finishes because from time to time pianos would get chipped and I'd have to build that area back up and then get a gloss on it without it being visible. It involves using increasingly finer grits of sandpaper all the way up to 12,000 grit and then a series of 4 polishing compounds.
It's actually quite hard to do and make it not show, and time consuming too.
For one thing there's like a zillion different blacks. When you look at them in isolation they all just look black.
But when you use one right next to another it's freakin' amazing how clear the differences can be between two shades of black as hell!
It's a very hard finish ... basically a super hard plastic and super durable which is why it's so hard to get off.
For pianos they have to be extremely scratch resistant because with the large expanses of gloss it's easy to see the slightest flaw.
It's actually quite hard to do and make it not show, and time consuming too.
For one thing there's like a zillion different blacks. When you look at them in isolation they all just look black.
But when you use one right next to another it's freakin' amazing how clear the differences can be between two shades of black as hell!
It's a very hard finish ... basically a super hard plastic and super durable which is why it's so hard to get off.
For pianos they have to be extremely scratch resistant because with the large expanses of gloss it's easy to see the slightest flaw.