Adding veneer to my old bass

[Chili]

I bought some grain filler, but the store didn't have the right color. I experimented with water based acrylic paint to darken it up and it worked. In the end, I didn't use it and left the pores open. The veneer had a lot of variation in coloring and trying to match it up across the different shades would be difficult. That was before I screwed up the stain on the sides and had to stain the whole body. It's much darker than I was envisioning, but it still looks nice.

I put veneer on the headstock, but haven't sanded it out or worked it at all.

 

[Greg_L]

I'm eager to see this finished. I'm not a wood grain guy. I've never gotten excited about flame tops or bookmatching or tiger stripes or any of that wood stuff. But this knotty walnut look is pretty cool.

 

[Mick Doobie]

I can't get the attachment in a quote to do a side-by-side, but.....The knotted grain in that walnut is somewhat reminiscent of this Van Gogh, Starry Night.

You can almost see the buildings at the bottom and the mountain(or whatever it is) at the edge behind the bridge

maybe it's just me

 

[Mick Doobie]

It may be too late, and maybe Muttley can chime in...but, perhaps a Sanding Sealer could be used prior to staining to help seal the pores and prevent the stain from absorbing too much in the finer grain while allowing it to still accentuate the knots?

 

[muttley600]

It may be too late, and maybe Muttley can chime in...but, perhaps a Sanding Sealer could be used prior to staining to help seal the pores and prevent the stain from absorbing too much in the finer grain while allowing it to still accentuate the knots?

TBH, the thing with most burrs and burls is that you have a lot of grain going in a lot of different directions. That is the beauty and the beast of it when it comes to working with it. When trying to stain it (and I did a LOT of staining burr at RR) you aim for a real dark colour and sand back til you get what you want. Half the trick is knowing what the colour is in the white and what it will look like in the wet. The REAL fun starts when you have to match a specified or established colour. That is tough.

Bottom line is always go darker thab you think you need to with burr. Chillidude will be OK...

 

[muttley600]

I can't get the attachment in a quote to do a side-by-side, but.....The knotted grain in that walnut is somewhat reminiscent of this Van Gogh, Starry Night.

You can almost see the buildings at the bottom and the mountain(or whatever it is) at the edge behind the bridge

maybe it's just me

His "Wheat fields" was prolly a better burr look-e-likeee...

 

[Mick Doobie]

I would think with the sanding sealer there would be less "back sanding" once a stain(or any type finish) is applied, just enough to knock down the raise in the grain...being veneer, don't want to do too much sanding.

I'm sure either way it'll come out nice, it's a beaut piece of wood.

 

[Chili]

It's darker than I first wanted, but I'm okay with it. The veneer isn't fairing into the body liked I hoped. I have done a lot of sanding, but there is still a hard edge.



You can see it near the horn and the close up is near the heel. I think the light line is the contact cement. So... I am trying some plastic wood(?) to see if it will help smooth the edge of the veneer. I put it on tonight and will sand it tomorrow.

 

[heatmiser]

Yeah, up close like that it's kind of brutal, but I can already tell that wherever you wind up with this, it's going to look a hell of a lot cooler than where you started.

Once you put all the hardware back on and stuff, at least from a distance, I think it's going to look killer.

I'm really enjoying watching the progress.

 

[Chili]

Thanks Heat. I'm not too concerned about the scratch marks. They'll come out easily enough when I go to a higher grit. I took the photo mid-sanding and the flash highlighted the marks. Its' that stupid glue line that is the problem. (Next project, listen to Mutt, no contact cement. Even if it's the only thing available on the shelf)

I like Mick's reference to Starry Night. I would never, in a million years, have associated burly walnut with Van Gogh.

 

[heatmiser]

Yeah, I wasn't really paying attention to the scratch marks. Even with the glue line though...it would be nice to have it perfect, but I'm just saying that even if you can't manage that I still think it'll look pretty cool.

 

[Chili]

Thanks!! I understand now... I agree, no matter how lame the glue line is, it's way better than the red metal flake crap.

I also just noticed the second pic looks like the veneer isn't very straight, but that is where the body is contoured for the picking arm to rest against. The body gets thinner in that region.

 

[muttley600]

It's darker than I first wanted, but I'm okay with it. The veneer isn't fairing into the body liked I hoped. I have done a lot of sanding, but there is still a hard edge.



You can see it near the horn and the close up is near the heel. I think the light line is the contact cement. So... I am trying some plastic wood(?) to see if it will help smooth the edge of the veneer. I put it on tonight and will sand it tomorrow.

What glue did you use? The only way you would get a seamless edge would be to have the body perfectly falt and true and coulour the glue line so it blends into the veneer if it is exposed. When you get "run through" which is what that is, we would patch it if it was in the centre or in your case colour it out with a bit of careful work with brush and paint mixed in with laquer.

If you keep sanding that edge you have I'm guessing you will keep getting more run through. Be careful you dont chase it too far and make more work for yourself.

 

[Mick Doobie]

It may possible with some care to use a fine toothed file to run along the body/veneer junction w/ long even diag strokes to even things out, w/ care....kind of an old school router method. Then again it might not if the veneer has been chased pretty far over the radius edge of the body top. It might seem drastic, and would possibly be a mistake, who knows....to use the file to also cut/soften the radius on the edge of the body, starting the cut at the body first and then working towards the veneer. Of course if done correctly it would make a bit of a hard edged angle on the side of the body a bit down from the top. But that can be easily knocked down after you have achieved the goal of a consistent transition from veneer to body. It does look as though the transition point is pretty far over the radius and up onto the top though, so it might not be a viable option.

I doubt that contact cement line will accept stain, it won't. It might sound cheesey and half-assed, and it is,....to use a perm marker, a sharpey, holding it between your index and thumb fingers, using your middle finger pressed against the side of the body to steady and use as a guide to achieve a consistent line all the way around. Sharpeys do come in colors, brown included, i'm pretty sure. Black might also work out okay, and possibly match the p'ups and knobs if they're also black. Permanant though it may be, depending on the final finish coat, if solvent based, you might want to test first to make sure the finish coat won't possibly lift the marker line.

Just throwing some ideas out there.

But having said all that, it's still pretty bad ass looking as it is...a bit rustic, but that fits the burley walnut.

 

[Lt. Bob]

It's darker than I first wanted, but I'm okay with it. The veneer isn't fairing into the body liked I hoped. I have done a lot of sanding, but there is still a hard edge.



You can see it near the horn and the close up is near the heel. I think the light line is the contact cement. So... I am trying some plastic wood(?) to see if it will help smooth the edge of the veneer. I put it on tonight and will sand it tomorrow.

why don't you just go with a black or very dark around the edges fade in/burst type thing. That'd hide the glue lines.

 

[Chili]

why don't you just go with a black or very dark around the edges fade in/burst type thing. That'd hide the glue lines.

That was my original intent. But as it progressed I thought I might not do that. But as it progressed further I thought it might save the bevel. I did a dark sunburst and it helped a lot. Also. the other day I mentioned the plastic wood stuff and it helped with the glue line immensely. I'm happy again.

Here's after the first shot around the edge.



I used hard stock paper (almost cardboard) for the outline. Pushpins to lift it off the body so some spray can get underneath and create the sunburst. I traced the outline of the body, but it ended up being a little too big and the overspray didn't go far enough from the edge towards the middle of the body. So...

I moved the template around a little to expose more body and shot again. Next time, I'll cut the template a little smaller than the body to expose more. That'll be for the backside of the bass. BTW, I used a satin lacquer Dark Walnut spray paint.


Here's the head stock.



Still have to shoot the back of the bass. Then it's on the nitro finish.

After a close inspection of my Ibanez bass, I see a lot of little imperfections around the veneer that I hadn't noticed before. Funny how you see things with a new perspective. Now I don't feel so bad.

 

[Greg_L]

Looks great dude. Is that how "bursts" are usually done?

 

[Chili]

I don't know if that's the sanctioned method, but it worked. I saw someone do it on a YouTube video.

Just shot the back of the body and head. Here's a pic right afterwards.

 

[Chili]

What glue did you use?

I used contact cement. I've read about others using it with good effect, but its elasticity is killing me. Think chewing gum on the bottom of your shoe. The plastic wood really helped to cover the glue line. I hope it is durable.

I know you've mentioned epoxy a few times, but I'm kind staying away from it. 2 parts mixing, and all. Looks too easy for me to mess up. lol.

I think on the next guitar, I'll use Titebond. The website where I bought the veneer from says to not use it because it doesn't fully harden, but neither did the contact cement. You mentioned Titebond would have an open time of 10 minutes. For what I'm doing, I'm totally okay with that. Hell, the contact cement had a zero open time and I got it right. It was stuck as soon as it touched. I rolled the veneer on to ensure I didn't get blister or bubbles and I did it gooooood. ha ha ha imagine that.

So, my big question is: Will I have the same problems with the glue line if I use Titebond or other yellow glue? If I want to avoid epoxy, what other type of adhesive can I use on my next project?

 

[muttley600]

I used contact cement. I've read about others using it with good effect, but its elasticity is killing me. Think chewing gum on the bottom of your shoe. The plastic wood really helped to cover the glue line. I hope it is durable.

I know you've mentioned epoxy a few times, but I'm kind staying away from it. 2 parts mixing, and all. Looks too easy for me to mess up. lol.

I think on the next guitar, I'll use Titebond. The website where I bought the veneer from says to not use it because it doesn't fully harden, but neither did the contact cement. You mentioned Titebond would have an open time of 10 minutes. For what I'm doing, I'm totally okay with that. Hell, the contact cement had a zero open time and I got it right. It was stuck as soon as it touched. I rolled the veneer on to ensure I didn't get blister or bubbles and I did it gooooood. ha ha ha imagine that.

So, my big question is: Will I have the same problems with the glue line if I use Titebond or other yellow glue? If I want to avoid epoxy, what other type of adhesive can I use on my next project?

Seriously, go with two part epoxy. Use the 24 hour set and you have hours of open time plus you can colour it to match and save a lot of hassle when cleaning up. Titebond is OK but you only get one shot at laying up. The industry uses epoxy or cascamite for hand veneers. All machine pressed stuff uses a urea-formaldehyde concoction that is kicked off by heat. I would never use a contact adhesive for veneer work as I wouldn't trust the longevity. I have used it for plastic backed veneers and it will almost always let go at some point.

Nice job on the sunburst.