A Year and Nothing!

[Snowman999]

I procrastinate. I have my movie theatre in the attic. I've been using that for almost a year. I don't have to put it loud for it to be loud in the room. You can hear it down the two flights of stairs, yet miraculously when you step away from the stairs, the sound can't be heard.

I still want to soundproof part of the basement for a studio. I keep running into problems. But, I think I have them figured out. The washer and dryer are in a 10' x 10' corner. It's under the front door. So, the one wall is the front door. One wall is the foyer of the neighbor, and the third wall is to our garage. The only real thing that would need to be built is a doorway. There's a spot for it, it just needs to be built.

The problem throughout the basement is the wiring, tubing and crap going throughout the ceiling. I want to use the Rockwool Safe and Sound, but don't know how to put it up over the multitude of shit up there now. Here are some photos.

Looking at these photos. Can anyone possibly explain how to put the rockwool in? There are numerous problems - the wiring and pipes are the biggest. The tubing I think you just cut out the rockwool to fit over and under it. But, I'm not absolutely sure. Rockwool has never responded to any of my questions. The last photo is the only wall I need to rockwool. That's the stairway. The doorway would go in the opening. Yes, all the laundry detergent and stuff will be moved. It shouldn't cost much to soundproof this space, if I can soundproof the ceiling.

I put a little boom box on. It was on 4 out of 10. I could hear the music when I stood in our foyer. But, there's only a piece of pressed wood separating the floors. TH's are made of crap.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Ed Fones]

The only insulation you can put in there is a granular type but from the top onto an installed basement ceiling. The other way is small pieces of thermal fibreglass insulation stuffed in off a step ladder which will take you forever. Even then it is thermal insulation and not acoustic insulation. For that you would need to install a false ceiling and also add acoustic insulation from below. Again taking forever and the weight may be an issue.

Then there is pumped foam. Is it allowed over wiring and has it any acoustic properties?

If it were my place I would seriously only attempt that from above.

Are they really floor joists you have there?

 

[rob aylestone]

the sprayed and pumped foam filler is now out here in the uk. Not from any regulations perspective, but it means you wont sell the house because it hides problems like dodgy roofs or wiring or plumbing, so when people have a survey done, none of the boxes can be filled in. So you cannot get a mortgage! It renders your house unsaleable to cash buyers too if they want a survey, which people do. Even just the thin coat stuff used to seal the tiles or slates is now out!

 

[mjbphotos]

Wow, there are some serious code violations happening there with the wiring all over the place. How tall is the ceiling - can you add a drop ceiling? BTW, Safe and Sound is not going to "soundproof' the space.

 

[Papanate]

Ii would group the wiring and probably put them in PVC Conduit - then clean up all your other Code Violations you have in there - after you clean up the wiring and piping you can put whatever insulation you want.

 

[TAE]

the sprayed and pumped foam filler is now out here in the uk. Not from any regulations perspective, but it means you wont sell the house because it hides problems like dodgy roofs or wiring or plumbing, so when people have a survey done, none of the boxes can be filled in. So you cannot get a mortgage! It renders your house unsaleable to cash buyers too if they want a survey, which people do. Even just the thin coat stuff used to seal the tiles or slates is now out!

That's weird ...It's becoming a big thing here in the states and I've not heard anything about having problems selling a house because of it...I'll have to google n see...was thinking about doing it in some areas of my shack but ended up using rockwool and fiberglass... So if the studs are drywalled who knows what's behind them anyways...

As far as solving the Snowmans issues..

I'm thinking just use the rail mount drywall system...noise reduction rails blah blah blah

So this video shows one way to soundproof with rails and drywall and the green glue...TBT it's really all about mass and air in between the mass...I call bullshit on the green glue... silicone caulking or sound proof panels in between two sheets of 1/2" drywall is going to kill a lot of sound..

I will be doing some sound proofing in "my room" when I get to it after the house remodel is completed ...I will use a DIY type of rail system to help reduce vibration but I will not be using the pricey system in the video..I'll just make shift something with metal studs I can buy at Home Cheapo...not building a bridge and it WILL help reduce sound escaping from the room...

 

[Slouching Raymond]

The top right picture seems to show a white power cable in contact with a copper water cable. That can't be good.

 

[Slouching Raymond]

Oops, water pipe, sorry.

 

[Ed Fones]

That's weird ...It's becoming a big thing here in the states and I've not heard anything about having problems selling a house because of it...I'll have to google n see...was thinking about doing it in some areas of my shack but ended up using rockwool and fiberglass... So if the studs are drywalled who knows what's behind them anyways...

The roof space underneath your tiles/slates was always a draughty place as the wind blew in around the gaps between tiles/slates. So any water or condensation which got there could easily disperse and go away.

Seal the roof with foam or other then you create a problem.

 

[Snowman999]

The only insulation you can put in there is a granular type but from the top onto an installed basement ceiling. The other way is small pieces of thermal fibreglass insulation stuffed in off a step ladder which will take you forever. Even then it is thermal insulation and not acoustic insulation. For that you would need to install a false ceiling and also add acoustic insulation from below. Again taking forever and the weight may be an issue.

Then there is pumped foam. Is it allowed over wiring and has it any acoustic properties?

If it were my place I would seriously only attempt that from above.

Are they really floor joists you have there?

Regarding the floor joists; I had to look up what they were, and I can still honestly say "I have no idea."

 

[Snowman999]

Wow, there are some serious code violations happening there with the wiring all over the place. How tall is the ceiling - can you add a drop ceiling? BTW, Safe and Sound is not going to "soundproof' the space.

This TH was built in 1997 and it passed all inspections. It's one of the first in the neighborhood. My wife's mom had nothing done. Maybe PA has lighter regulations than everywhere else. I look at it, and I think it's a huge mess. Apparently not for PA.

 

[Snowman999]

Ii would group the wiring and probably put them in PVC Conduit - then clean up all your other Code Violations you have in there - after you clean up the wiring and piping you can put whatever insulation you want.

This TH passed inspections with the wiring exactly the way it is. Go figure.

 

[Ed Fones]

Snowman is there anyway you can clear a decent space down there and build a box? A box being a room which could be your studio. It may only be as big as a bathroom or possibly the size of a bedroom. But at least then you could insulate this straight forward shape very easily and job done. If you could get a space like that down there, even if you may lose a bit off the height to the ceiling, it would be very simple to do and then you wouldn't have to think about stuffing insulation between those ceiling joists in that maze of cable and piping.

 

[Ed Fones]

Regarding the floor joists; I had to look up what they were, and I can still honestly say "I have no idea."

Joists are just set lengths of wood that support floors or ceilings. A typical joist would be 9"x2" in a house. Wood is at its strongest when the wide measurement is from top to bottom. For example 9"x2" piece of wood when the 9" is from top to bottom and doing the support.

In the good old days when men were men and it was all fields around here, if the joist wasn't strong enough to support the weight from above, they would use thicker timber like 9"x3" or they would use two joists nailed together so it would be 9"x2"x 2 = 9"x4". These joist would be spaced approx 14" apart all across the floor/ceiling. It worked. Simple and effective and supported floors in houses for hundreds of years.

Perhaps too simple, because one day for whatever reason, they invented several new type of 'fabricated' types of joists and that is what you have in your house. And that is why you have a very complicated space to try and fill with insulation. Whereas normally you would have a set parrallel space of about 14"wide x 9" deep between the joists to fill and 'hey presto' the insulation manufacturers even just by magic made their insulation the exact size to fit that space as well.............So all was easy. But then................

 

[TalismanRich]

I would hesitate for enclose water pipes inside spray foam. It's not uncommon for copper water pipes to develop pinholes after years of use, I've replaced at least 60 ft of copper in my home which was built in the mid 60s. Tracking down a leak when it's encased in expandable foam would probably mean ripping out most of it when that time comes.

 

[TAE]

I would hesitate for enclose water pipes inside spray foam. It's not uncommon for copper water pipes to develop pinholes after years of use, I've replaced at least 60 ft of copper in my home which was built in the mid 60s. Tracking down a leak when it's encased in expandable foam would probably mean ripping out most of it when that time comes.

Two things I'm not sure what would happen with a supply line copper pipe incapsulated in foam would it leaks? Not sure...but probably...on the drain side for sure it will not and I speak with personal exprrience. When I remodeled my house back in 1987 I moved the toilet to a different location...My house was built in 1953 and all the plumbing was cast iron...sooooo when I removed the drain from the toilet I cracked the metal hub on that main pipe going to the sewer...rather than call in a plumber to R&R and have him Lead and oakum the joint..for a few hundred bucks, I used 4" abs plastic inside the hub and foamed that sucker in...Was just under the house a few months ago 35 years later and that baby is rock solid still serving it's purpose of taking the flushed toilet water to the drain...zero leakage...That said on a supply water line the pressure is a lot higher and it would probably leak....however In 2022 once the copper fails I'd recommend abandoning it and go PEX ...way easier, cheaper and will outlast all of us reading this.

TBH I say forget the insulation and just do the layered drywall thing

 

[Ed Fones]

I would hesitate for enclose water pipes inside spray foam. It's not uncommon for copper water pipes to develop pinholes after years of use, I've replaced at least 60 ft of copper in my home which was built in the mid 60s. Tracking down a leak when it's encased in expandable foam would probably mean ripping out most of it when that time comes.

Some kinds of substances can affect wiring as well. Polystyrene used to or does still have to be kept away from electrical wiring. I think there can be a chemical reaction between the plastics or something like that. Not exactly sure, but best check before you call the foam man.

 

[TalismanRich]

Snowman obviously has copper supply lines. I'm guessing that being the economy minded builders, they used M thickness pipes.

When I replaced mine, I insisted that they increase to L gauge, which was more costly but is thicker walled. I figured if it lasted 50 years with M, it would outlast me with the L type. At that point, I wasn't comfortable with PEX on the supply side. Not sure I am still....

 

[LazerBeakShiek]

Since you are building in a basement area, what carpeting is good for a basement studio?

Just had my basement water sealed. So the vinyl? tile is removed. I got to start unboxing the gear. Its been a month . I cannot hang out in the 'prime time' that long..I got to produce. Get my thing together.

 

[mjbphotos]

Since you are building in a basement area, what carpeting is good for a basement studio?

Just had my basement water sealed. So the vinyl? tile is removed. I got to start unboxing the gear. Its been a month . I cannot hang out in the 'prime time' that long..I got to produce. Get my thing together.

Even if its water-sealed, don't put carpet down for a studio! Throw some rugs down, if you want to tame echoes or have a softer floor. The new vinyl that looks like wood is the best thing for basements and goes down quick and easy. Even water-sealed, it will probably get humid down there unless you've got a lot of ventilation.