2 sound cards

[guitar ed]

Hey, guys! Just a quick question. I have 2 SB Live cards in my puter. I run XP on a PIII 600mhz. I have Sonar 3, and I want to know if I can plug the outputs of my old 4-track into the 2 cards. Tracks 1 and 2 into soundcard 1, and tracks 3 and 4 into soundcard 2. ( Line-in) I tried this, but I can't seem to get both soundcards working, even though they are both available as ins and outs. Is there something I need to enable before this will work, or will it not work? I tried to record two tracks at a time, but we're talking about a tape machine here, and of course, the timing is never gonna be right. I'm at work, and I'm rushing, so if I'm not clear, lemme know, and I'll get more specific after I get home. Bottom line is that I want to use two soundcards to take the place of a single 4-input card. Thanks
Ed

 

[moskus]

1) Two SB Live! cards will not run good on one machine (Creative will tell you that).
2) The two cards will fall out of sync because they have two different word-clocks, and you can't sync them internally.

Sorry...

 

[guitar ed]

That figures! Just my luck. I found all these old 4-track tapes of mine from years ago. I wanted to get them into my computer, but recording them two tracks at a time doesn't work. I'll have to figure something else out. Is there any advantage at all to having two SB Live cards, or should I disable one of them? Thanks

Ed

 

[BloodShark]

Is there any advantage at all to having two SB Live cards, or should I disable one of them?

No advantages at all. Turn one of them off.

BloodShark

 

[moskus]

I wanted to get them into my computer, but recording them two tracks at a time doesn't work.

You need a soundcard with 4 inputs (or two sync'ed cards with 2 inputs each).

 

[Qwerty]

It's painful, but can't you rewind to a constant counter position on the four track and record each track one at a time into a new track in Sonar?

It'd take a while, but it'd work.

Q.

 

[guitar ed]

It's painful, but can't you rewind to a constant counter position on the four track and record each track one at a time into a new track in Sonar?

I tried that, but for whatever reason, the individual tracks won't sync up. I see what you mean about a constant counter position, but I still need Sonar to begin recording at the same spot, and that's the difficult part. Thanks for the replies, now if you'll excuse me, I gotta go rip a soundcard out of my computer!!

 

[Qwerty]

I see what you mean about a constant counter position, but I still need Sonar to begin recording at the same spot, and that's the difficult part.

Isn't that why God gave us two hands and the ability to count to three?

Can't you get it close enough that way that you can then pull the tracks forward and back to match up the transients?

? Q.

 

[guitar ed]

Yes, I can. But what's happening is that the speeds seem to be different. Most of these tapes have the rhythm track in stereo on tracks 1 and 2, and then I have a guitar solo track on 3, and whatever else on 4. I can record 1 and 2 to two seperate tracks at one time, but when I rewind the tape to record the guitar solo track, it seems like it's playing faster than the rhythm tracks, no matter how close I get them lined up. I can get it perfect to begin with, but by the end of the song, the tracks are way out of time. I really believe it's due to the mechanical flaws that are in the tape deck. Even if it's very subtle, it's going to stick out like a sore thumb when I try to record each track by itself. I'll keep noodling around until I get it. Some of this stuff is really pretty good, but I did it so long ago, I don't remember how to play some of it!!
Ed

 

[Qwerty]

OK then - that sucks.......

Can you try making either takes 1 and 2 or takes 3 and 4 into Groove clips? This would let Sonar determine where the transients were in each clip and would then adjust to the tempo map accordingly.

Depending upon the size of the files, you may well go insane ensuring your transient beat markers are in the right spots in the Loop Construction window........ But it would work.

If you have a copy of ACID, (or if the demo supports exporting), then you can use their Beatmapper feature which is a little more clever than Sonar at determining the proper position for the transient markers. Once it is in ACID, save it as an ACIDized .WAV file and Sonar will open it up properly and respond to the altered tempo map.

Have I convinced you to buy a new sound card yet? LOL!

Q.

 

[moskus]

I tried that, but for whatever reason, the individual tracks won't sync up.

Don't waste your time! It won't work.
The two word-clocks aren't synced and that's why it won't work.

 

[Qwerty]

Don't waste your time! It won't work.
The two word-clocks aren't synced and that's why it won't work.

He was talking about individual tracks and one sound card at this point in the thread.

Q.

 

[moskus]

I know that, but since the clocksource on the 4-track (or the motor) is not constant with the clocksource on the soundcard, it will not work...

 

[Qwerty]

So you would end up with four tracks, each with their own seperate wobble from the tape mechanics.

You can work out the tempo, roughly, by tapping it out. You can then work out the number of measures, from which you can derive the number of beats.

Armed with this information, you can make each source track into a groove clip. Granted, a bloody long groove clip and a pain to insert all the beat markers. Bring them into a new project and make them respond to the tempo changes of the project -> thereby synching up all four tracks to a click track.

Tell me why that can't work!

Q.

 

[moskus]

Tell me why that can't work!

Because that's insane!

Ok, seriously. That might work, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Qwerty]

I'm not holding my breath.

Lucky.....you'd be way dead before you got all the beat markers in place.

I am still working on a project where I had the choice of spending hours mucking around with MIDI drums or getting a mate into the studio when he flew down from interstate.

He recorded all the drums for thirteen songs, (including two eight minuters and a six minute one), in six hours.

I then spent the next three months editting each beat back into "exact-enough" time.

THAT was seriously insane!!

What's a few bloody thousand bleedin' beat markers, laddie?

Where's your sense of adventure, man? Where's that home recording sense of enthusiasm, excitement and blind stupidity? Where's that famous Norwegian fighting spirit?

Does the blood of your marauding vikings ancestors, ready for rape and pillage, still flow through those veins or not, sir?

What would the world be like if Hilary had said to Sherpa Tenzing, "Oh bugger that! It's bloody big isn't it.....and it ain't 'alf cold......." Alright, Edmund may not have been from Manchester, but that is beside the point......

Oh bloody hell, I am channelling crappy Monty Python outtakes again..........

Apologies.

Q.

 

[guitar ed]

What was all that!!??!!?? Anyway, I do have a demo of Acid on a CD somewhere. I think it might be version 3...............never used it, so I'm not sure. What about Recycle? Isn't that even better than Acid? I would like to find a way to preserve this stuff, but I don't really want to spend the rest of my natural life doing it. Incidentally, I have absolutely no Viking blood in me at all, so that challenge fell on deaf ears here. I think you might have the answer as far as recording the track then doing a bit of beat slicing. I just didn't realize how much a tape motor fluctuates. I'll let you know if anything good happens, and if anything really good happens, I'll let you hear it! Thanks, guys, and feel free to keep arguing about this!!
Ed

 

[Qwerty]

Chill Ed, my viking taunts were Moskus driven

Q.

 

[guitar ed]

Yo, man........I know you're just goofin' around! So what about Recycle? Isn't it sort of designed to do this very thing? And what about Ableton Live? Has anyone here messed around with that? I really don't want to relearn all these songs, and on top of that, I have another dilemma. About 6 weeks ago I got hit in the hand with a football, knocked my left hand middle finger completely out of the joint, and now I only have about 60% range of motion in that finger. So in other words, I can't play my guitar any more. Can't even play a D chord. I'll likely need surgery to put it back where it's supposed to be, but that's more expensive than a better soundcard!! So, while I'm deciding what to do next, I'd at least like to have something to work on.

Ed

 

[Qwerty]

Recycle would work - that's what it is designed to do.

Call me stupid, but I could never get the demo to work properly for me and I don't do a lot of loop stuff anyway.... That's why I said BeatMapper in Acid - automatic and takes the thought process out of it.

If you've got it there, then certainly - play it!

Bummer about your finger, for what it's worth, the guy who plays with me actually broke the middle and ring fingers of his left hand during a rugby game. About three weeks before an important gig for us, (aren't they all ), many, many moons ago.

He never got them set properly, (big, tough rugby moron), but he has retained most of his mobility and has relearnt ways of playing things to get around the injury.

There Is ALWAYS A Way To Rock, Sir!

Q.