I bought a crazily cheap 'Neumann' TLM103 and it's really decent!

  • Thread starter Thread starter rob aylestone
  • Start date Start date
It's not counterfeit, as it's A) not marked Neumann and B) not labeled TLM103. The mic is clearly marked as KETS, and the model number on the mic is CV-103. Thats no more counterfeit than a Warm WA87 or Stam SA-87.

1743130185442.webp
 
TalismanRich said:
It's not counterfeit, as it's A) not marked Neumann and B) not labeled TLM103. The mic is clearly marked as KETS, and the model number on the mic is CV-103. Thats no more counterfeit than a Warm WA87 or Stam SA-87.

View attachment 149456
Click to expand...

Definitely counterfeit....and being Chinese doesn't surprise me one bit. I'd feel guilty even purchasing one.

Search 'microphone 103' on aliexpress....it comes up as tlm-103.
 
I did. That is where the photo came from. So ignore the picture of the actual item? Where does it say Neumann, or TLM103 on the actual microphone?

Now, I'll agree that there are others that actually show pictures of a Neumann with a bit of photoshop work to blank out the logo or part of the name. This is one example. It may be the exact same mic as the KETS, but I suspect when it arrives it will say Neumann on the logo. THAT is a counterfeit.

1743132675411.webp
 
TalismanRich said:
I did. That is where the photo came from. So ignore the picture of the actual item? Where does it say Neumann, or TLM103 on the actual microphone?

Now, I'll agree that there are others that actually show pictures of a Neumann with a bit of photoshop work to blank out the logo or part of the name. This is one example. It may be the exact same mic as the KETS, but I suspect when it arrives it will say Neumann on the logo. THAT is a counterfeit.

View attachment 149457
Click to expand...

Buy the fake Neumann if you want. Support the mod if you want. Semantics won't get around the fact that it's clearly a fake Neumann and the listing says TLM-103. How much more counterfeit can something be, without being counterfeit....lol. Gimme a break. It doesn't need to say anything on the mic itself to be a knock off fraud. Same thing.

Oh man. What is the world coming to. At least I'm truthful and honest about it. lol
 
Well i think my experience in having now looked at hundreds of chinese items is that some are fakes, pretending to be the real thing, like the sm57, 58,7b etc, but others brand with a different name, are slightly different sizes, colours and weights. Putting 103, 87, 414, 57 in the printing makes it just an ‘inspired by’ product, and plenty of well known ones there. Thomann in Germany have been selling a 57 for years. A very decent Shure SM58 chinese copy, but it is branded as a Thomann product. This one has a brand, and is a 103, so is just very similar but fails the fake test for me. I have no idea how Police Officers identify car makes at a distance, they all seem to be a common shape now. This started in the 80s where everyone started to produce cars that looked like jelly moulds. Now we have pickups that all look the same, plus the crazy thing where some US vehicles are sold here under totally different branding. They're legit of course just a bit different. A proper gearbox, steering wheel on the correct side, and sensible engines with fuel consumption our people can afford at our crazy prices. Ps that was an attempt at UK/US humour/humor
 
Lots of companies will put your company name/logo on a their product for you. Some of the items my company produced were actually OE for several US auto manufacturers. Unless a company pays for exclusive rights for the product/paid for tooling, design etc., you are free to sell your own or to anyone else.
 
I tried to order the 103 yesterday from AliExpress and got a fair way thorough the process when it threw up a little black box with some Chinese characters in it and I could go no further.
At no point did it say they won't ship to UK. I'll perhaps have another go later and post a screenshot of the box.

I would love to see how one sounds on my son's classical guitar!

Dave.
 
rob aylestone said:
Well i think my experience in having now looked at hundreds of chinese items is that some are fakes, pretending to be the real thing, like the sm57, 58,7b etc, but others brand with a different name, are slightly different sizes, colours and weights. Putting 103, 87, 414, 57 in the printing makes it just an ‘inspired by’ product, and plenty of well known ones there. Thomann in Germany have been selling a 57 for years. A very decent Shure SM58 chinese copy, but it is branded as a Thomann product. This one has a brand, and is a 103, so is just very similar but fails the fake test for me. I have no idea how Police Officers identify car makes at a distance, they all seem to be a common shape now. This started in the 80s where everyone started to produce cars that looked like jelly moulds. Now we have pickups that all look the same, plus the crazy thing where some US vehicles are sold here under totally different branding. They're legit of course just a bit different. A proper gearbox, steering wheel on the correct side, and sensible engines with fuel consumption our people can afford at our crazy prices. Ps that was an attempt at UK/US humour/humor
Click to expand...

It's a fake and counterfeit Neumann TLM-103 no matter how people try to dance around it. I come from GroupDIY....from 15 years back where we were building circuits that we felt guilty about....on projects that looked nothing like the original, etc. But we were very honest about things like that....and NONE of that was allowed on the forum.

The bloody thing says TLM-103 on aliexpress...it sounds the same and looks the same. If someone needs to fight to tell another person that it's a counterfeit TLM-103 with the other party dancing around the subject just because it's doesn't actually say Neumann....something has really gone wrong in the world. Anyway, just woke up....gotta get a coffee.
 
GainBrain said:
Buy the fake Neumann if you want. Support the mod if you want. Semantics won't get around the fact that it's clearly a fake Neumann and the listing says TLM-103. How much more counterfeit can something be, without being counterfeit....lol. Gimme a break. It doesn't need to say anything on the mic itself to be a knock off fraud. Same thing.

Oh man. What is the world coming to. At least I'm truthful and honest about it. lol
Click to expand...
Ok, then by your definition, the Warm WA87, Stam SA87i, Dachman DA87i, Seranno 87, Peluso P87 and MXL V87 are all counterfeits. How about the UT Twin87? It doesn't look like the U87 but uses 87 in the name and is clearly marketed as a U87 clone?
 
GainBrain said:
It's a fake and counterfeit Neumann TLM-103 no matter how people try to dance around it. I come from GroupDIY....from 15 years back where we were building circuits that we felt guilty about....on projects that looked nothing like the original, etc. But we were very honest about things like that....and NONE of that was allowed on the forum.

The bloody thing says TLM-103 on aliexpress...it sounds the same and looks the same. If someone needs to fight to tell another person that it's a counterfeit TLM-103 with the other party dancing around the subject just because it's doesn't actually say Neumann....something has really gone wrong in the world. Anyway, just woke up....gotta get a coffee.
Click to expand...
I'm also on GroupDIY and they would never endorse making clones...
Ooops!

groupdiy.com

Neumann Vintage U87 Clone : Build Thread.

D-U87 Build Thread Let's get those Electron flowing. All of the info: http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=49675.0 Picture Provided By Chunger :) Mouser Cart including all options ( 60M and 68M included also 2 different PN for 2K2 resistance) important note :The BOM already contained...
groupdiy.com groupdiy.com
 
TalismanRich said:
Ok, then by your definition, the Warm WA87, Stam SA87i, Dachman DA87i, Seranno 87, Peluso P87 and MXL V87 are all counterfeits. How about the UT Twin87? It doesn't look like the U87 but uses 87 in the name and is clearly marketed as a U87 clone?
Click to expand...

I'm assuming they are cloning a circuit that is past the patent/copywrite infringement date or something (I'm no lawyer)....technically making it ok to clone it. Do you see any U87AI clones?

Nope.

"The original U87 was released in 1967. Even if they had patented it out the wazoo, patents in 1967 only lasted 17 years. There aren't many other protections."

"Currently, the term of a new patent is 20 years from the date on which the application for the patent was filed in the United States. Many other factors can affect the duration of a patent."

The TLM-103 is still within patent law (I think), making it illegal to clone. But chinese don't care. Do you see anyone cloning a TLM-103 anywhere else?
 
If you want the exact Neumann sound, the TLM 103 is hard to fully replicate.

If you want something similar for less money, mics like the Lewitt LCT 440 PURE, Rode NT1, or Warm Audio WA-87 R2 are great options.
 
Manslick said:
If you want the exact Neumann sound, the TLM 103 is hard to fully replicate.

If you want something similar for less money, mics like the Lewitt LCT 440 PURE, Rode NT1, or Warm Audio WA-87 R2 are great options.
Click to expand...

Actually, the mic that was presented in the video sounded damn near the same....it was using the smaller 26mm capsule. It was lacking a bit of bass. I'm assuming that the 34mm capsule might sound basically identical.
 
After doing product development work for about 30 of my 42 years in the lab, I found that there are very few things that can't be replicated, if someone is willing to invest the time effort and equipment to do the job properly.

Our purchasing department would send in a product that was "just like the one you're using" based on some manufacture's spec, or sales pitch. We would bring it into the lab and it would be a big fail. Purchasing was seeing big $$$ savings, but the product didn't cut it. Sometimes the company didn't have the resources to make the product, or didn't have the knowledge to break the competitors product down to reverse engineer it.

On the other hand, we had companies that would put the research in as to why something performed the way it did, often times, because of some particular equipment, and once they acquired that equipment, their product would come right in. We had companies in Korea who could clone German materials reliably. In a few cases, they actually improved things over the orginal by a large amount. We had a UK company that couldn't match a Japanese product, until they found out that a specific extruder was needed. Bingo! That was the trick. We had 3 plants in Georgia who mined and processed the same material, but one used a specific piece of equipment that made it process easily and completely. The other two plants wanted to use their equipment and they never duplicated that product, even though they would give it a similar product designation and offered it at a reduced price.

There's nothing really unique about a microphone circuit board. The parts are readily available, and boards are easy and cheap to build. Capsules are tougher, but dang, the Germans went to China and showed them how to build them. With current analytical techniques, you can pretty much duplicate the build. We're talking gold sputtered plastic film, brass, some screws, and some precision machining. If a guy in Virginia, or in Australia can make them in their shop, why can't a guy in Shanghai do the same.

What I can't understand is how they do things at the prices offered. I recently bought some plastic binding for a project. I ordered off Ebay, and it cost $8. It shipped from China, included some guitar picks and showed up in an envelope about a week later. How they can ship a microphone to the US from China for $14 with free shipping is beyond my understanding.
 
TalismanRich said:
After doing product development work for about 30 of my 42 years in the lab, I found that there are very few things that can't be replicated, if someone is willing to invest the time effort and equipment to do the job properly.

Our purchasing department would send in a product that was "just like the one you're using" based on some manufacture's spec, or sales pitch. We would bring it into the lab and it would be a big fail. Purchasing was seeing big $$$ savings, but the product didn't cut it. Sometimes the company didn't have the resources to make the product, or didn't have the knowledge to break the competitors product down to reverse engineer it.

On the other hand, we had companies that would put the research in as to why something performed the way it did, often times, because of some particular equipment, and once they acquired that equipment, their product would come right in. We had companies in Korea who could clone German materials reliably. In a few cases, they actually improved things over the orginal by a large amount. We had a UK company that couldn't match a Japanese product, until they found out that a specific extruder was needed. Bingo! That was the trick. We had 3 plants in Georgia who mined and processed the same material, but one used a specific piece of equipment that made it process easily and completely. The other two plants wanted to use their equipment and they never duplicated that product, even though they would give it a similar product designation and offered it at a reduced price.

There's nothing really unique about a microphone circuit board. The parts are readily available, and boards are easy and cheap to build. Capsules are tougher, but dang, the Germans went to China and showed them how to build them. With current analytical techniques, you can pretty much duplicate the build. We're talking gold sputtered plastic film, brass, some screws, and some precision machining. If a guy in Virginia, or in Australia can make them in their shop, why can't a guy in Shanghai do the same.

What I can't understand is how they do things at the prices offered. I recently bought some plastic binding for a project. I ordered off Ebay, and it cost $8. It shipped from China, included some guitar picks and showed up in an envelope about a week later. How they can ship a microphone to the US from China for $14 with free shipping is beyond my understanding.
Click to expand...

They oppress their workers...paying them next to nothing, is my guess.

Just a quick search:

"China has a largely free market with strategic state intervention as well as many state owned companies competing in this market. They have a massive supply of cheap but often well-educated labour, low regulatory costs including environmental costs as well as labour costs. The state subsidizes many industries, especially those producing raw materials such as steel and many others. Cheap state backed loans as well as land to build production on are often available.

So cheap labour, low environmental costs, and cheap raw materials added to economies of scale have allowed low-cost mass production to flourish."


But this is nothing I didn't know or hear of before.

Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. I would vote for expanding patent laws to 50 years....to prevent this type of sillyness from occurring, just because people can 'get away with it'.
 
That is true. It's government run "capitalism". When you have 1.4 billion people to feed and keep happy, you subsidize whatever is needed to keep things going.

Our company had a chemical manufacturing plant in China that was built by a another company before we bought that division. They manufactured materials for years. While environmental restrictions were lax early on, thing tightened up years later. While not as strict as most US or EU policies, it was getting there. Certainly it was far above companies in India at the time.

All that went away when the Chinese government decided to convert the entire district to residential, closing numerous factories, including ours. When the planners decide they need something, it's fair game. They are also somewhat sensitive to negative publicity. After a major explosion at a chemical plant over 10 yrs ago, the government cracked down even further. They have had a number of similar events over the years, and it tends to upset the apple cart.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top