The New Tone Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Telegram Sam
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Excellent, Greg. Although I was expecting you to smash out a few powerchords over the final section of Sunrise.
 
Miner, I'm listening to this a couple of times now on a pair of Senns. I think it sounds pretty good actually.

The guitars sound good and heavy, but they do sound a little flat (not as in tuned flat) they just lack a little something that I can't put my finger on. They are a quite thick, but then I like that - you've got a bit of a Jerry Cantrell (think Degredation Trip) tone there.

The leads and the cleans are nice. How loud was that in the room? If you're managing that at comfortable listening volume you're doing well!

The drums seem to sound great, but they don't fit with the guitars very well. Lead drums!
 
minerman said:
Do you think the low-end is flubby on these clips, like when I tried to use the resonance on my big amps??? The reason I ask is the resonance was pretty low in this clip, & it adds a ton of bottom if I need it...
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I do think the low end is a little flubby. It's not a resonance thing IMO, it's a little amp with a ton of gain thing. It's just flat. You might be able to reverse-logic the amp/speaker choice to cheat the effect of amp headroom. If you're gonna use that much overdrive and low watt power section squash in the amp, then maybe try your stiffest speaker. Zakk Wylde does this. He uses something like 1200 watt cabs. Lol. Not that his tone is holy grail type stuff, but his idea is to not get any speaker breakup because he wants his tone to be heavy as shit at the amp but stay tight and articulate. Give it a try. The worst that can happen is it sounds like ass and you delete the track.
 
rayc said:
The Ramones weren't big in Oz at any time but they were famous/infamous from It's Alive, (I actually have a copy of the movie they took the name from), on with 10,1000s of people who were into music.
Bill L, I have a not great Marshall 4 x 12 and it's NOT great - merely adequate. If I'd known or had the awareness of a resource such a Greg I'd have waited, saved a little more and have a killer cab.
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Hey ray... bit off track for this thread, but what the hey... speaking of audience reactions - did you ever see the Weddos live when they played Ticket in Tatts and everyone started chucking 10c pieces at the line "ten cents short of a dollar"? Mick Thomas said they always played it second or third song to get it out of the way because of that. The times I saw them I don't think they played the tune but I have a DVD of them live and sure enough, that song comes up and the fuckwits in the audience are chucking coins at the band. Pretty sure MT changed his guitar before that song, and Jen the violinist would cower behind the accordion player while it went on. :laughings:

50 seconds in. Stuff that for a joke, you could lose an eye or chip a tooth with a 10c piece!:( Every. Damn. Gig.

 
David,
I only saw them thrice, Once at the Gen Bourke in Parra (after the fathers' day single), 1st supporting Billy Bragg at the Syd Town Hall, (brilliant gig and Billy did a couple of songs with them), and I can't recall the third but no, this didn't happen. I'd have been horrified at the danger and the waste of money, (mate, growing up poor really left a stain on my frivolousness). Their 1st album is one of the best debuts in Oz.
Here's classic Tele sound through a Fender amp. Bright as all get out - close to too bright.
 
Greg_L said:
China! My wife sent some pics of me to a friend of ours, and he had it custom made. It was a Christmas present, but every time I see him we forget to bring the presents, so I just got it the other day. Christmas in June! Pretty cool right? It fucking looks just like me! :D
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no shit ..... that's one of the coolest gifts ever!
 
JDOD said:
Miner, I'm listening to this a couple of times now on a pair of Senns. I think it sounds pretty good actually.

The guitars sound good and heavy, but they do sound a little flat (not as in tuned flat) they just lack a little something that I can't put my finger on. They are a quite thick, but then I like that - you've got a bit of a Jerry Cantrell (think Degredation Trip) tone there.

The leads and the cleans are nice. How loud was that in the room? If you're managing that at comfortable listening volume you're doing well!

The drums seem to sound great, but they don't fit with the guitars very well. Lead drums!
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Thanks Jdude, I did have the drums up too loud, it was halfway intentional, but I admit I didn't mean to get 'em up that loud...

Cantrell is one of my favorite players dude. IMO he never overplays, & always seems to know what the song needs...

The volume level was pretty loud man, even for a 15w amp this thing' s pretty loud, but it's still nothing like my other amps were in sheer volume... Once it hits a certain level on the vol knob, it really doesn't get any louder, just dirtier & spongier...Thanks again!!!

Greg_L said:
I do think the low end is a little flubby. It's not a resonance thing IMO, it's a little amp with a ton of gain thing. It's just flat. You might be able to reverse-logic the amp/speaker choice to cheat the effect of amp headroom. If you're gonna use that much overdrive and low watt power section squash in the amp, then maybe try your stiffest speaker. Zakk Wylde does this. He uses something like 1200 watt cabs. Lol. Not that his tone is holy grail type stuff, but his idea is to not get any speaker breakup because he wants his tone to be heavy as shit at the amp but stay tight and articulate. Give it a try. The worst that can happen is it sounds like ass and you delete the track.
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I'm gonna try a couple/few things today. I've been recording these clips in low-power mode. I'm gonna flip it to the 15w setting & see if that does any better. I did mess with the mic placement a little yesterday, & may have got it too far away from the cap, as this last clip doesn't seem to have the "bite" I'd been getting...And I'm gonna try some different mic/speaker combinations too, I've been using the i5 for everything since I got it...

I'll post some clips later guys, thanks!!!!
 
Oh yeah, bringing the power back up really makes that amp breathe better. All off those clips sound good to me. I particularly like the G12H and 65 the best.
 
Greg_L said:
Oh yeah, bringing the power back up really makes that amp breathe better. All off those clips sound good to me. I particularly like the G12H and 65 the best.
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Yeah man, you can definitely hear it in the clips using the same cab. The low power mode really doesn't seem to cut the volume all that much, just makes everything a little dirtier, but also mushy...

The volume on all these clips was between 2-3, I'll try to give it a good run-through tomorrow, & post the results for you guys...

Still lovin' this little thing man, I know it's still the new thing, but it surprises me about every time I play through it...
 
Greg_L said:
It just goes to show....less power and less volume is never better.
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Yeah I get it dude, that finally sank in a pretty long time ago, but I can make this amp work for my songs dude, no doubt...

I like the new cab too, those speakers are like my Greenback/'65, but with yet another kind of high end & charatcter...

BTW, there's a JCM800 50w in the Marshall forum for $850 shipped...
 
Greg_L said:
Haha, are you feeling GASsy? If noise is a concern for you now, that aint the amp for you.
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I can attest to that. Even at 50W and through a 4x10 my JCM800 is a roaring beast, the likes of which I've never encountered before. That's a loud goddamn amp! Although I can't imagine that it's a different league of loudness than that 100W DSL through a 4x12 was. But the JCM just seems to like to be at least at 5 on the master volume.

Also, I got more than one laugh out of your 2001 tower of power bobblehead video. Instant classic :D
 
Greg_L said:
Haha, are you feeling GASsy? If noise is a concern for you now, that aint the amp for you.
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Tadpui said:
I can attest to that. Even at 50W and through a 4x10 my JCM800 is a roaring beast, the likes of which I've never encountered before. That's a loud goddamn amp! Although I can't imagine that it's a different league of loudness than that 100W DSL through a 4x12 was. But the JCM just seems to like to be at least at 5 on the master volume.
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I keep GAS dudes, but I already know about an 800, & there's just no way I could use one right now like it's meant to be used...

I've often wondered how that DSL would keep up with an old Marshall, but I'd say it wouldn't be a problem. The DSL is a loud-ass amp too, that liked to be on at least "3" on the volume dial, or it sounded neutered on recordings to me...

I didn't get rid of the DSL because it was so loud though, it's really the only thing I could replace pretty easily when I needed to fund another computer. It's weird how all this shit worked out, but I'm still in business with a new pc, & new (to me) amp, with a new (to me) cab to boot...
 
Low power mode is gonna sound different .... that's because low power mode in most amps comes from changing the operating mode of the power tubes.
For example ..... when an amp has a 1/2 power mode, it's often done by changing the tube from a pentode operation to triode ..... that removes two of the tubes elements from the circuitry.

It's essentially the same thing as using a different type of power tube ..... so of course it's gonna sound different.
 
minerman said:
I've often wondered how that DSL would keep up with an old Marshall, but I'd say it wouldn't be a problem.
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It wouldn't. Old/new doesn't matter. Old 100 watt amps aren't somehow louder than new 100 watt amps. Older amps might *seem* louder because they're generally cleaner and not swimming in mushed out preamp gain, but they're not really louder. A DSL is plenty loud enough to be way too loud for any bar/club gig and definitely loud enough to drown out the rest of a band.

I tried my 50w Plexi un-attenuated at a band practice once....for one song. It's *just* 50 watts. Against bass, another guitar, and a very hard hitting drummer, I was still the only thing you heard in there. :D

For more reference, I use my JCM 800 very often. With the full band, putting the master on about 4 is super loud enough. Anything more and I'm the asshole that has his shit way too loud. The other guy uses a DSL and he keeps his around 5 on the MV, but he also uses way more gain than I do so he kind of mushes out a bit. Me on 4 and him on 5 is a decent balance since I punch and cut better than he does. Both of our amps are capable of being the only thing you'd hear if we wanted it that way.
 
Coincidentally we're talking amps. I tried a shit load of amps today.

First was a HiWatt T40. This was ok, loud but not crazy loud. It's the sort of thing I could get working at home where it could work up a sweat but wouldn't kill my neighbours. The distortion was a bit harsh though and it didn't really crunch very easily, it pretty much went from off to a fairly high gain. I'd never get the gain past 9PM.

Next I tried a Randall RG50. This was really good. Loud but it wasn't just fizzy when it was at relatively reasonable volume. Sounded great, really versatile. Clean channel had a slight crunch available but you could also go ice pick cleans.

Two gain options, all foot switchable. Could just about get the lower of these to do a punky crunch, but again, getting this to 9pm was pretty much equivalent to my usual high gain sound on my grunge. I liked this amp though.

Next I tried a dual terror. Sounded great on low gain when playing lead licks or strumming some chords, as soon as any palm muting happened it became a flubby mess. Thinking back on it, while I love this sound, my OCD pedal imitates it pretty well.

Next I tried this 25 Watt jubilee head. Silver one anyway. With weird push pull options for channel switching. Fizzy and not gainy enough.

Last thing I tried was a 30W Laney Ironheart. This was actually pretty good. Packed with features, loads of switching options for cleans, boosted cleans (it has a built in tubescreamer type effect), compression. Was a bit of a fiddle to get the sound I wanted and still didn't need all that much of the gain available.

I also tried the single channel 15W head of the Ironheart through an orange cab and it actually sounded better.

My favourite was probably the Randall. Although it doesn't seem to crunch that well and I'd probably only need a quarter of the gain dial. Not sure any of them were better than my blackstar though for what I want.
 
The 100 watt Marshall volume is massive. The one I used to have,,in the mid 70s didn't have pre-gain...but man would that fucker scream with everything dimed out. Nothing sounds like, or as good as, a dimed out Marshall but a dimed out marshall....you can't duplicate that with a pedal at low volume. I used to hang 2 folded quilts over the speaker cab and push it against the wall..with the speakers facing the wall. In smaller venues even that was too loud...and people liked it really loud back then. Bar bands, around here, didn't mic their cabs or drums back then. Most were using those powered head systems like sure vocalmaster. They could barely throw out an audible vocal over a 100 watt Marshall. Used 50 watt Marshalls were VERY desirable back then. I would have traded my 100 for one, but so would a lot if other guys playing small clubs
 
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