The "damage" has been done, is probably irreversible.. THE WORD FROM MAXELL

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miroslav said:
Apparently...it's all in the formulations and slitting processes.
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Ah, but he was saying that no-one was making suitable backing material or binder. That was the interesting part. If memory serves, ATR designed their own slitting equipment...
 
miroslav said:
It's like asking...why they don't make DeLoreans any more when cars are still being made? :D
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They actually are making DeLoreans again now, with a combination of new-old-stock/OEM parts and some modern fabrications and god only knows if it will all last or not...and so it apparently is with analog tape, too....crap, that makes tape the DeLorean of the audio world! :D :drunk:
 
Just a couple of additional thoughts....

If it were me (and I needed more tape), I may do a number of things, one being to buy new tape from current manufacturers, either one at a time or only enough to supply immediate projects, which gives me plenty of flexibility to test and verify that it's good (and exchange if needed) and prevent potential unopened bad tapes from sitting unused for months or years. That plus I would probably import the tapes to computer and either reuse those tapes or have backed up digital files or I'd mix them down to known, proved over decades, NOS tape.

Another thing I might do is buy out NOS tape (some is even available from Quantegy currently) and, again, reuse. I find little wrong with reusing tape and backing up your tracks to computer, for example. Your tape costs go down (as does tape risk) and you still get to track to analogue and benefit from its sound.

So, miroslav, I wouldn't forgo on the 2" machine, if that's your thing. Why not just buy one or two, low pass 2" tape (many go for 50 bucks each on eBay) and just reuse? There's also perfect new old stock around, including on the Quantegy site. I wouldn't pass on the whole 2" machine because there are questions surrounding current tape manufacturing. There are ways around that, including, as I've said before, buying just enough for your immediate needs and NOS.

IMO, there will be always tape available and, with digital storage tech now, you don't have to hoard dozens or hundreds of tapes for each project. In fact, getting into analogue couldn't be more affordable than it is now. Again, just my thoughts and opinions..... and nothing more.
 
briank said:
They actually are making DeLoreans again now, with a combination of new-old-stock/OEM parts and some modern fabrications and god only knows if it will all last or not...and so it apparently is with analog tape, too....crap, that makes tape the DeLorean of the audio world! :D :drunk:
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Will they have a Mr. Fusion option? :)
 
cjacek said:
So, miroslav, I wouldn't forgo on the 2" machine, if that's your thing. Why not just buy one or two, low pass 2" tape (many go for 50 bucks each on eBay) and just reuse? There's also perfect new old stock around, including on the Quantegy site. I wouldn't pass on the whole 2" machine because there are questions surrounding current tape manufacturing. There are ways around that, including, as I've said before, buying just enough for your immediate needs and NOS.

IMO, there will be always tape available and, with digital storage tech now, you don't have to hoard dozens or hundreds of tapes for each project. In fact, getting into analogue couldn't be more affordable than it is now.
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I'm not passing on it...I'm just wondering how much of a benefit VS hassle it would end up being.

The reason analog decks are so affordable now is because so many people are dumping them. :D
Though that's the same reason I can afford to go for a 2" today where I never could when they were selling at top dollar.

See...I'm also at another crossroads (been there for a long time now)...
Do I keep the studio endeavor a private thing, just for my own projects or take it out to the public on some controlled/hand-picked project level (I don't want to have all kinds of dregs in/out just 'cuz they are paying).
I'm at a point where I'm close to a possible earlier retirement, because I'm single and I have no dependents, other than my elderly mother who visits during the summer months up from Florida. So....I may need to supplement my early retirement with a little something on the side, and I see no point in retiring just to get another "job" for the side thing.
Doing some commercial recording might be the best option...and it wouldn't take a lot of remodeling for me to add another couple of rooms to my existing studio space which right now is OK for 2-3 person recording, but it gets a bit tight with a 5 piece (I've done it).

Not sure if I want a 2" just for my own use....and not sure if I want to go the other route, but I keep watching and looking for "THE" 2" deck. I'm sure if a great deal came up, it might push me over.
 
Lt. Bob said:
yeah ...... I'm gonna have to go with the whales. If the only way to have good tape again is to slaughter whales then it's time for tape to disappear ....... sorry.
But I kinda don't believe whale oil is an absolute required ingredient. They can synthesize anything nowadays.
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Yeah, that's totally true...like I hear there's a thing called "digital recording" that's not only supposed to be as good as analog, but better. This just totally proves your point.













heheh...
 
Is that statement certified by the ASPCA, cjack? ;)

(Really, I support the ASPCA, just wondering... :) )
 
Sorry to revive this, but I found this post interesting from another member over at Tapeheads.net:

If your Maxell contact is the person I think he is, then he is an expert in recording technology with little manufacturing experience because he's based in New Jersey; and Maxell only coated in Peach Tree, GA, and Japan. There are serious problems in trying to start up manufacturing of magnetic tape again, but they are not all the ones he is listing. RMGI is a company started from ex-BASF/ex-Philips/DuPont employees whose backgrounds are in the manufacturing/marketing/sales of magnetic media. There may also be some Pyral employees involved. They use equipment from the BASF Willstaett plant that was sold so cheaply that Imation bought some even though they didn't need it. (A bit like having the compulsion to buy a beautiful reel-to-reel recorder even though there need or even room for it--it's just too good to pass up.) I don't know about ATR, but I almost hired several of Quantegy's top technical marketing people in the panic of 1996. Maybe some of them stayed on.

Materials--magnetic pigment is still available except for advanced cobalt-enhanced oxides and chromium dioxide. Imation asked me to try to find a buyer for 20 tonnes of chrome a few years back; but no one was interested, not even those still coating cassette tape. Metal pigment may be in short supply if it's available at all. (3490 tape cartridges used the pigment, and it's used in DVC video cassettes that are still being made.) But standard ferric oxide used in reel tape is still available. It is the red in barn paint. Barns are red because the pigment was that color, cheap, and as stable as rust, which is what it actually is. Mathematical calculations we used at BASF suggested that the formulation used for the LH-D ferric cassettes would also have worked for an excellent quarter-inch mastering tape.

As for polymers, they are also readily available as either more sophisticated than those used in the hygroscopic sticky shed tapes or less sophisticated as those used in tapes from the 1950s that still perform well. Binders are not a problem.

Base film is polyethylene terephthalate, the same material used in soda bottles. There is plenty to go around, and making 1.0- or 1.5-mil for audio applications is not difficult. (It is for video, but that's a different story and application.)

Equipment--this is a more difficult issue, but Aurex/Auriga in Mexico, Imation in the U.S., as well as JVC, Sony, Fuji, Quantegy, and TDK all coated product in the U.S.A. BASF's equipment in Bedford, MA, went mainly to Aurex. There may be equipment on the market, but it may not have been the best quality and may no longer be in the best shape. A Nakamichi Dragon unused for 15 years poses problems. A computer-controlled coating knive is far more sensitive and sophisticated; so you can imagine the time it would take to find it, restore it, and get it into production.

Personnel--there are few people around who know how to manufacture tape. Those who do are retired or involved in other, more promising ventures these days. A coating engineer friend left BASF, went to Fuji, and is now working in micro-filtering with no interest in going back to the old days.

Government regulations--this may pose the biggest roadblock of all. American legislators in both the federal and local governments are politicians who have never worked a day in their lives at real jobs. They make the rules that govern business and manufacturing, and in all too many cases, destroy both. BASF abandoned its tape plant in Massachusetts when a law passed that all companies must reduce its solvent emissions by 50% each year for three years. 3M won a national award for reducing its emissions by recycling its solvents by 50%. My plant recycled 97% in a carbon/nitrogen tower. To go from 97% to 98.5% would have been extremely difficult. (The 3% that escaped turned into water vapor and carbon dioxide within 17 seconds. Planting 15 trees around the plant would have converted the carbon dioxide to oxygen.) We started the process by building solvent tanks above ground according to the new standards that were issued. That cost $3.5 million. As soon as we finished, the state decided that all tanks should be underground. That would have cost $8 million, including tearing down the above-ground system. Instead, we shut the plant down and put 1,500 workers out of work, including my friend who went to Fuji. Massachusetts was finally happy. Maxell is not saying so, but they know that kind of mentality is as important a roadblock as finding someone to grind slitting blades.

The good people at RMGI want to keep their jobs. If you are not happy with their products, tell them what you would like to see improved. We have a much better opportunity of refining an existing product than enticing someone to get back into a business that ate its own offspring.
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What this person states makes considerable sense. He obviously has had the experience, and he speaks from that experience.

The Maxell person was stroking everyone. He made absolutely no sense to me.

If you think Scotch does not have 2" tape capability then what have then been doing all these years making and selling 2" packing tape!

$26 million for winding equipment! What was he smoking?
 
I have to add that shortly after this thread started I had a conversation with an RMGI rep about it and he told me much of the same information in the quoted post from tapeheads. Interesting to read it from a different source...affirming...substantive...non-hypity and whatnot.
 
SteveM said:
Why can't we govt subsidize the tape industry? :( We need a bailout! :D
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I believe in The Right To Hear Analog !.
I'll vote for you, Steve! :drunk:

...so forget gigging and start tossing together an Exploratory committee. :p :D
 
Hold everything! IMO its a a crock of horse dung! Magic binders, esoteric pigments, mystertious polymers and extinct mammal oil. Before this gets out of hand take a step back and consider the following. RECORDING TAPE IS STILL BEING MADE! Cassette tapes are still produced and thousands of miles of tapes gets spooled into cassettes every years. Making magnetic tape is not a lost art. But did anybody pick up that Maxell never actually made their own tape? They weren't like 3M or SONY who actually made what they sold. So of course Maxell would have a devil of a time actually having to make tape.

So lets apply a little logic here. Cassette tape and reel to reel tape are kissing cousins. Five will get you ten that coating some 1.5 mil 1/4" tape with cassette oxides and binders will produce something that will run through a reel to reel deck. When you consider the hundreds of brands of tapes that were around for decades there was certainly enough knowledge and materials to put a lot of makers in the game. And not only that but each maker had their own little formulas. This does not sound to me like black magic.

So Maxell can't/won't be bothered but SONY is still out there and making tape. If I'm not mistaken TDK is too. Having used SONY RTR tape in the 70's it was easily the equal of the best Maxells. BTW it was my posting that I was going to chat up Maxell about reel to reel tape that got the petition moving in the first place. I believe I was never credited with this. However I will approach SONY but it'll be on my terms.
 
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