Tube amp brands

[Kingofpain678]

Preamp Tube Brands

Are there really big differences in tone based on the manufacturer of the preamp tubes you're using?
I'm thinking about trying out some different pre-tubes but have no idea where to start....

any tips, pointers, info or advice?

 

[punkrocker]

I have never swapped my tubes for other brands than the manufacturers before. That being said I have heard comparison tests and I know people who swear by a certain brand of tube. I don't think that its worth the money and the time personally. If you aren't getting the sound you want with your setup its probably not the tubes but your guitar/amp/signal chain. Honestly a good eq can do way more for a guitar sound than a tube change can. But thats just me

 

[ocnor]

Are there really big differences in tone based on the manufacturer of the preamp tubes you're using?
I'm thinking about trying out some different pre-tubes but have no idea where to start....

any tips, pointers, info or advice?

Different tubes can take an "ok" tone and make it a "kick ass" tone. Firstly which amp are you talking about and what is it about the amps tone that you want to improve?

 

[M1Fanatic]

As ocnor stated, tubes can make a difference. They can change the color of the amp, the amount of overdrive, and the amount of headroom before breakup.

 

[Outlaws]

If you aren't getting the sound you want with your setup its probably not the tubes but your guitar/amp/signal chain. Honestly a good eq can do way more for a guitar sound than a tube change can. But thats just me

This.

Don't waste your money on expensive tubes unless you have absolutely nothing else to buy. If you have an amp with just a volume and maybe a tone control you will possibly hear something. If you have an amp with a decent amount of EQ and presence controls, you will probably be able to shape your tone better than those amazing 1960's Mullards everyone pays big bux for.

I have had a UniValve and a BiValve....I have done extensive personal testing of various tube brands and types. And IMO the only time I ever really notice a difference was from going from either massively different powertubes (6k6 or 6g6, to something like a EL34 or KT88) or from a lower gain preamp tube to a higher gain tube (12AT7 to 12AX7). Outside of that its a joke IMO. Older RCA and Mullard preamp tubes, and even JJs, seemed to have more clarity than than cheap chinese no name tubes I had, but it was far from the epiphany I had the first time I played a nice guitar...or the first time I played a tube amp, or then a nice tube amp.
A good amp with mediocre tubes will smoke a mediocre amp with great tubes. Why? Because the rest of circuit makes a bazillion time more impact on the sound.

 

[Outlaws]

Have you ever seen the PANTONE colors available. There are a shit ton of blacks. They are all perfectly black, except when you set one right next to the other and then it is kinda sorta maybe a little grey-ish. Thats a JJ vs a Mullard.

 

[Kingofpain678]

Well I have a peavey windsor. I know alot of people knock it and but I really like the tone I get from it. The only thing I don't like is the low end could "tighten up"(for lack of a better word) a little when I'm "chugging"
But then again the amp was designed to mimic old british tube amps, But to be fair I get just the hard rock tone I'm looking for.
Just a little more "tightness" in the low end would be nice.

I don't know if a tube change would give me a little more tightness and maybe take a little harshness in my sound... I just thought I'd ask before spending the money.
I'm experimenting with strings too.

 

[ocnor]

A good amp with mediocre tubes will smoke a mediocre amp with great tubes. Why? Because the rest of circuit makes a bazillion time more impact on the sound.

And a good amp with good tubes will smoke a good amp with mediocre tubes. The amp's circuit has a huge impact on tone and the tubes dictate how the circuit operates. Tubes are all very different. Some are weak, high gain, bright, fat , thin, dull, noisy, quiet, etc... which has a major affect on the amp's tone. I'm not just talking about overpriced vintage tubes either.

 

[miroslav]

A lot depends on the amp.
For some...you might not hear much difference from tube to tube...but for others, you will hear it. Good quality amps will react better to tube changes...crappier amps just sound crappy, no matter what the tubes.

I have a couple of cases of tubes - preamp, power and rectifiers in every type and all kinds of brands, old and new production…and I've spent a good deal of time testing the tubes with my tube tester and notating the results, and also trying out tubes in the amps.
It is very time consuming, but finding the right tube combination can make BIG difference.
One thing...if you just swap one preamp tube...you only change one thing. You have to try swapping the other tubes in the amp also.

Going through several 12xx7 types will give you a multitude of flavors.
I'll use 5751, 12AY7 and 12AU7 tubes in place of 12AX7 tubes in some positions.
Also...everyone usually leaves the phase inverter tube alone...but swapping that out could provide greater tone changes than when you swap the V1 preamp tube.
Also...don't just focus on the preamp tubes. Different power amp tubes can give dramatic changes...or none at all.

So...first you need a good assortment of preamp and power amp tubes...and then an afternoon to experiment.

 

[ocnor]

Well I have a peavey windsor. I know alot of people knock it and but I really like the tone I get from it. The only thing I don't like is the low end could "tighten up"(for lack of a better word) a little when I'm "chugging"
But then again the amp was designed to mimic old british tube amps, But to be fair I get just the hard rock tone I'm looking for.
Just a little more "tightness" in the low end would be nice.

I don't know if a tube change would give me a little more tightness and maybe take a little harshness in my sound... I just thought I'd ask before spending the money.
I'm experimenting with strings too.

I know exactly what you mean about the low end on those Peavey amps turning to mush. You might want to try running a tubescreamer pedal with the gain turned down. That will cut some of the chub from the low end.

 

[Kingofpain678]

I know exactly what you mean about the low end on those Peavey amps turning to mush. You might want to try running a tubescreamer pedal with the gain turned down. That will cut some of the chub from the low end.

Ok, I had it in my head that a tube screamer could tighten a distorted tone up a bit but I couldn't remember where I heard it or if it were true.
I also know that alot of people complain about the sound of the new TS-9's...
Will the age difference matter so much in this application?

 

[Kingofpain678]

A lot depends on the amp.
For some...you might not hear much difference from tube to tube...but for others, you will hear it. Good quality amps will react better to tube changes...crappier amps just sound crappy, no matter what the tubes.

I have a couple of cases of tubes - preamp, power and rectifiers in every type and all kinds of brands, old and new production…and I've spent a good deal of time testing the tubes with my tube tester and notating the results, and also trying out tubes in the amps.
It is very time consuming, but finding the right tube combination can make BIG difference.
One thing...if you just swap one preamp tube...you only change one thing. You have to try swapping the other tubes in the amp also.

Going through several 12xx7 types will give you a multitude of flavors.
I'll use 5751, 12AY7 and 12AU7 tubes in place of 12AX7 tubes in some positions.
Also...everyone usually leaves the phase inverter tube alone...but swapping that out could provide greater tone changes than when you swap the V1 preamp tube.
Also...don't just focus on the preamp tubes. Different power amp tubes can give dramatic changes...or none at all.

So...first you need a good assortment of preamp and power amp tubes...and then an afternoon to experiment.

Sounds like fun but I think personal testing that extensive might have to wait a while for me Good tips though, I'll definitely keep it in mind. I never thought about using different tube types in different positions.

 

[Kingofpain678]

I know exactly what you mean about the low end on those Peavey amps turning to mush. You might want to try running a tubescreamer pedal with the gain turned down. That will cut some of the chub from the low end.

Oh and thanks for your time and advice man, I really appreciate it.

 

[ocnor]

Ok, I had it in my head that a tube screamer could tighten a distorted tone up a bit but I couldn't remember where I heard it or if it were true.
I also know that alot of people complain about the sound of the new TS-9's...
Will the age difference matter so much in this application?

No it won't matter as much since you would just be using it as a tone shaping tool rather than an overdrive. You also don't have to use an actual Ibanez pedal. There are many tubescreamer-ish pedals and some are very nice.
This is a pretty decent sounding and fairly inexpensive tubescreamer type pedal: http://store.guitarfetish.com/grcldicltsct.html

 

[Kingofpain678]

No it won't matter as much since you would just be using it as a tone shaping tool rather than an overdrive. You also don't have to use an actual Ibanez pedal. There are many tubescreamer-ish pedals and some are very nice.
This is a pretty decent sounding and fairly inexpensive tubescreamer type pedal: http://store.guitarfetish.com/grcldicltsct.html

Looks promising for only 50$ too bad it's back-ordered till august though haha. I've been itching for a new toy to play with and I think that would be just the thing.

Have you used it yourself?

 

[Outlaws]

And a good amp with good tubes will smoke a good amp with mediocre tubes. The amp's circuit has a huge impact on tone and the tubes dictate how the circuit operates. Tubes are all very different. Some are weak, high gain, bright, fat , thin, dull, noisy, quiet, etc... which has a major affect on the amp's tone. I'm not just talking about overpriced vintage tubes either.

And I wouldn't advise anyone against going out and getting a set of JJs for instance. IMO I like them a lot. But I wouldn't recommend someone retube with them unless they actually needed a retube because IMO the cost vs return in tone is marginal in the grand scheme of things.

 

[antichef]

RCA, but they don't make'm anymore.

Good advice all through this thread. The one thing I could add, is to keep your eye open for old TV/Radio repair stores. There's one in my town that has been operating since the 1950's and has gobs of tubes. Many of them are for old TVs, but they had quite a few that would work in some amps I have, and for fairly cheap. There must be others around the world.

 

[WhiteStrat]

RCA, but they don't make'm anymore.

Good advice all through this thread. The one thing I could add, is to keep your eye open for old TV/Radio repair stores. There's one in my town that has been operating since the 1950's and has gobs of tubes. Many of them are for old TVs, but they had quite a few that would work in some amps I have, and for fairly cheap. There must be others around the world.

Yep, there's a shop like that 3 minutes from my office. Boxes and boxes of old tubes in the back room. They'll let me sort through 'em over lunch.

 

[punkrocker]

Ok, I had it in my head that a tube screamer could tighten a distorted tone up a bit but I couldn't remember where I heard it or if it were true.
I also know that alot of people complain about the sound of the new TS-9's...
Will the age difference matter so much in this application?

I was in the same boat as you not to long ago with my mesa. Got a maxon808 OD pedal which is about $40 more than a tube screamer. Chug city. I found out about the maxon because the guys from Bullet For My Valentine use it. I don't like their music but their guitar tone has the tightest palm muting I've ever heard. TS-9 works too, but IMO its a little digital sounding when compared to the Maxon.

 

[Kingofpain678]

I was in the same boat as you not to long ago with my mesa. Got a maxon808 OD pedal which is about $40 more than a tube screamer. Chug city. I found out about the maxon because the guys from Bullet For My Valentine use it. I don't like their music but their guitar tone has the tightest palm muting I've ever heard. TS-9 works too, but IMO its a little digital sounding when compared to the Maxon.

Yeah, I'm not looking for a SUPER tight tone though, I like metal music but I don't try to emulate the typical "heavy metal tone"
But then again I don't really know much about these overdrive pedals so I have no idea. I'll definitely check it out though, thanks for the tips man.