Replacing tuning pegs?

[Victory Pete]

Quick to judge!

Hmm let me think???


Nope I have read it again and this is total loblox of the finest quality from start to finish. Well done.

It is funny how you can object without any of your own experiences to back it up

 

[Victory Pete]

Martin's string wrapping procedure

I think some guys will like the tone with more mass, and some won't, definitely a matter of preference. I brought it up because I know a lot of players change out the stock tuners for lockers and other heavy ones, because they believe it will stay in tune better...IMO, it will not help tuning stability, but will change the tone somewhat - whether for better or worse is in the ear of the beholder. On LP's, I prefer the lighter ones, I think it imparts a little more "acoustic" tone, not as "focused" as heavier ones. A good LP has plenty of sustain no matter what kind of tuners. Whether a string rings for 19 seconds, or you increase it to 21.3 (or whatever it would be) I think is far less important, at least to me, than the shape of its envelope for the first 6, 8, maybe 10 seconds.

Back to the OP:

How many wraps around the posts? I looked at a problematic guitar that belonged to a guy at church, it would not stay in tune at all, constantly going down in pitch. I looked at the pegs and he only had like 1.5 or 2 wraps around the post (non-locking tuners). When I pulled up on the strings to "stretch" them, they would go way flat...over and over and over - I watched them up close and the strings were slipping on the post. I handed it back and told him to put new strings on, with more wraps...

The more wraps the better. When I use to work at Guild a guy who use to work at Martin showed me how they wrap the posts. It is a little hard to describe but basically it puts a kink in the first wrap. Martin describes the procedure in their manuals. It is a little tricky to do but it will ensure your windings wont slip or bind.
VP

 

[Light]

The extra weight on the headstock will give a guitar more sustain.

No, it won't.

I think some guys will like the tone with more mass, and some won't,

No, some guys will imagine they like the sound more. In fact, there will be no difference. They will particularly imagine they like the sound more when they have just spent a stupid amount of money on some device to add mass to the headstock. It's a myth. And a stupid one with absolutely no logical or scientific basis behind it. All a heavy headstock does is fuck up the balance of the guitar.

The more wraps the better.

GAH! NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Too many wraps means you have too many places for slack to build up, which then gets pulled out by the tension on the strings, which leads to tuning problems. Two or three wraps MAXIMUM. EVER!

HERE is Frank Ford's opinion. I do it differently from him, as I think his way makes it too difficult to take them off, but the way he does it will work just fine on any guitar with steel strings (acoustic or electric).


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

It is funny how you can object without any of your own experiences to back it up

Muttley and I have more experience trying out shit like that on guitars than any ten people on this board. It's how we make our living.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Victory Pete]

Closed-minded self appointed know-it-all!

Muttley and I have more experience trying out shit like that on guitars than any ten people on this board. It's how we make our living.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

You dont even know who I am or what my story is. I make a living with guitars and amps also. Of course it doesnt occur to you that anybody else could do the same!
Victory Pete

 

[muttley600]

It is funny how you can object without any of your own experiences to back it up

Apart from 30 years experience as a guitar builder and teaching musical acoustics you are correct I have no experience to back it up.

I could have chosen to pick apart the post you made sentence by sentence, instead I chose to ridicule it. Others here know that my one man mission to rid the interwebs of nonsense on the subject of musical acoustics is still ongoing and I rarely let it slide.

Now if you wish to back up the statements made in your post I will deal with them coherently and precisely. Until then it remains total and complete rubbish.

 

[muttley600]

You dont even know who I am or what my story is. I make a living with guitars and amps also. Of course it doesnt occur to you that anybody else could do the same!
Victory Pete

I'm calling you out, back up these statements. When you have done that I will tell you why they are all without exception complete and total rubbish.

The extra weight on the headstock will give a guitar more sustain.

The extra mass acts to dampen the wasted energy of the vibrating neck.

The string will then vibrate longer.

I dont remember what the effect on tone was, probably an increase in treble.

they have short posts and a lot of slop in the gears.

I found if I adjusted the stopbar all the way down to the body it would stay in tune. The added friction over the saddles helped keep the strings from slipping.

If there was not enough friction the strings would move back and forth over the saddle.

If you tune down to pitch there is some play in the worm gear that will slip.

 

[ermghoti]

The more wraps the better... [snip]... Martin describes the procedure in their manuals. VP

Utterly false. I have a Martin manual at home, it advocates 2-3 wraps, with the first half-turn the opposite of the normal direction, catching the tag end as it reverses (ie the "locking wrap").

Guitar tuners work exactly like an adjustable wrench. Think of the cheesiest adjustable wrench you've ever seen, up to and including a plastic toy. You can't move the jaw by pulling on it, unless you break it. Tuners are the same way. Better tuners have finer gear ratios, smoother action, better finish, maybe a little less gear slop, all of which are irrelevant to tuning stability.

It's never the tuners.

 

[Victory Pete]

Are you serious?

Utterly false. I have a Martin manual at home, it advocates 2-3 wraps, with the first half-turn the opposite of the normal direction, catching the tag end as it reverses (ie the "locking wrap").

Guitar tuners work exactly like an adjustable wrench. Think of the cheesiest adjustable wrench you've ever seen, up to and including a plastic toy. You can't move the jaw by pulling on it, unless you break it. Tuners are the same way. Better tuners have finer gear ratios, smoother action, better finish, maybe a little less gear slop, all of which are irrelevant to tuning stability.

It's never the tuners.

By more wraps the better, I didnt mean 38! Have you no common sense? I have a few Martin manuals, I think you are describing what I have already brought up.
VP.

 

[Victory Pete]

Obnoxious bigmouth!

I'm calling you out, back up these statements. When you have done that I will tell you why they are all without exception complete and total rubbish.

Take a course in physics! I dont have to prove anything to you! I am comfortable in my 25 years experience!
VP

 

[Victory Pete]

Original post

Hey everyone,

I have a guitar that I rebuilt several years back that I recently took out of storage. It was stripped, repainted and all the electronics were replaced.

I restrung it and stretched them out as I usually do, retuning as I went. Once I'd gotten all the stretch out of the strings I reset the action and intonation and everything seems good.

However, I've noticed that after playing it and doing some bends the strings quickly come out of tune. I can't visibly tell if the tuning keys are turning, but I was wondering if it's possible that the shanks are turning. The tuners weren't replaced when I rebuilt the guitar.

Is it easiest to just replace them? Or do I have any other options to fix this problem...

Thanks in advance!

I hope you can figure out your tuning problem, I am trying to give you my own opinion and experiences. Some people have a lot of nerve and cant mind their own business. They should express their opinion and shut up.
Victory Pete

 

[muttley600]

Take a course in physics! I don't have to prove anything to you! I am comfortable in my 25 years experience!
VP

Which one would you recommend? I have a post graduate doctorate in Musical acoustics will that do? Maybe I should attend the graduate course I teach on the subject or is that not physics?

I challenge you to search through my post history and find one post that contains a statement of inaccurate or non demonstrative scientific fact on the subject of physics. I suspect you will be unable to do this in exactly the same way as you cannot support the statements you have already made. Before you do please feel free to explain your statements as outlined previously.

Your 25 years of experience has lead you to some deeply flawed and incorrect assumptions. I would suggest you don't offer advice on a subject that you are ill qualified to advise on at least until you have attended a course on physics.

 

[muttley600]

Utterly false. I have a Martin manual at home, it advocates 2-3 wraps, with the first half-turn the opposite of the normal direction, catching the tag end as it reverses (ie the "locking wrap").

Guitar tuners work exactly like an adjustable wrench. Think of the cheesiest adjustable wrench you've ever seen, up to and including a plastic toy. You can't move the jaw by pulling on it, unless you break it. Tuners are the same way. Better tuners have finer gear ratios, smoother action, better finish, maybe a little less gear slop, all of which are irrelevant to tuning stability.

It's never the tuners.

That's correct, just as light and myself have mentioned here many times before you need between 1 1/2 to 2/1/2 turns on the post less will not secure the string. More may present issues with strings taking longer to settle on the post. You probably won't have problems if you wind on 3 or 4 turns it just isn't necessary that's all. Your assessment of how a tuner pinion and worm gear work is spot on.

 

[Victory Pete]

Hot Air!

Which one would you recommend? I have a post graduate doctorate in Musical acoustics will that do? Maybe I should attend the graduate course I teach on the subject or is that not physics?

I challenge you to search through my post history and find one post that contains a statement of inaccurate or non demonstrative scientific fact on the subject of physics. I suspect you will be unable to do this in exactly the same way as you cannot support the statements you have already made. Before you do please feel free to explain your statements as outlined previously.

Your 25 years of experience has lead you to some deeply flawed and incorrect assumptions. I would suggest you don't offer advice on a subject that you are ill qualified to advise on at least until you have attended a course on physics.

You must really be bored! I have studied Physics.

 

[muttley600]

You must really be bored! I have studied Physics.

Then educate me! Explain the statements you made. The hot air here is yours. I have called you out and so far you have not and cannot substantiate a single statement you made.

Forget me maybe others here would like you to explain them. Maybe the OP would benefit from your 25 years of experience and your knowledge of physics. You are one easy target at present, man up and let me have the benefit.

Oh wait you can't can you...

 

[Victory Pete]

"Guitar Nazi"

Then educate me! Explain the statements you made. The hot air here is yours. I have called you out and so far you have not and cannot substantiate a single statement you made.

Forget me maybe others here would like you to explain them. Maybe the OP would benefit from your 25 years of experience and your knowledge of physics. You are one easy target at present, man up and let me have the benefit.

Oh wait you can't can you...

I feel sorry for the original poster who just wants to play his guitar in tune. You keep starting these pissing contests, get a life!!!!

 

[muttley600]

I feel sorry for the original poster who just wants to play his guitar in tune. You keep starting these pissing contests, get a life!!!!

The original poster has had all the advice he needs to quickly and easily solve the problem you on the other hand are a hack. You have repeatedly been told that here in the guitar and bass boards by others. When you start spouting nonsense about musical acoustics and physics I am going to expose you for the hack you are. If you persist I will go back and bump other threads in which you have been challenged on posts you have made and let the board as a whole have a good laugh at your expense. A final word of advice, when you find yourself in a hole stop digging.

Back up the statements you made or STFU.

 

[Light]

You dont even know who I am or what my story is. I make a living with guitars and amps also. Of course it doesnt occur to you that anybody else could do the same!
Victory Pete

I don't need to. Very few people on this board know who I am, though many know my story. They judge me by the quality of my information, which on guitars is highly opinionated but accurate, and on electronics is amateurish and confused (which is why I don't post that much in amp threads, and am always willing to differ to those who know more than I - or at least I mean to). Judging you by your information, your views on the guitar come from reading the internet, not actually working on guitars.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Micter]

I don't need to. Very few people on this board know who I am, though many know my story. They judge me by the quality of my information, which on guitars is highly opinionated but accurate, and on electronics is amateurish and confused (which is why I don't post that much in amp threads, and am always willing to differ to those who know more than I - or at least I mean to). Judging you by your information, your views on the guitar come from reading the internet, not actually working on guitars.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

who do you think you are light? A guitar tech or something? LOL

 

[Victory Pete]

You have to be joking!

I don't need to. Very few people on this board know who I am, though many know my story. They judge me by the quality of my information, which on guitars is highly opinionated but accurate, and on electronics is amateurish and confused (which is why I don't post that much in amp threads, and am always willing to differ to those who know more than I - or at least I mean to). Judging you by your information, your views on the guitar come from reading the internet, not actually working on guitars.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

You have no idea what my experience is! I am new to the internet! Apparently you have spent many years waisting time on the computer! No I have been hands on for a long time. I refuse to be intimidated by you two arrogant know-it-alls. Why dont you shut your mouths and open your minds! Good luck to you both and your internet thrones!
Victory Pete