Stop calling yourself a "PRODUCER".

[RAMI]

"is car-jacking stealing?" Now your just being silly.

Come on! That was funny and you know it.

Listen, truth is, I have a Love/Hate relationship with hip-hop.

As a listener, I LOVE:

A lot of it, I really do. I wore out Dre's "The Chronic", Snoop's "Doggystyle", and The Dogg Pound's first CD, which I think is un-titled. I know every note and lyric of every tune, and can rap along with every tune on those CD's. I know that's old-school rap, but I'm also into old-school rock more than most of the new rock bands, too.

As a musician, I HATE:

The fact that, in these tunes who's groove I really dig, there wasn't a musician within miles of the studio while it was being put together. I also hate the fact that they don't give credit to the originals that they're ripping off. If they did, then maybe your claim that "it's not stealing, just honoring a good old song" would have some validity to it.

Funny thing is, for a "rocker" (for lack of a better term, because I'm much more than that when it comes to musical tastes), my friends think I'm nuts for some of the stuff I like. I love James Brown and EW&F as much as I like Deep Purple.

Once again, I'll repeat that I wasn't aiming my OP at "RAPPERS" in general. Just the kids that call themselves producers when they have no business doing that. It happens only with rappers. That's not my fault. I would have started the same thread and aimed it at rockers or jazz wannabes, if it was a trend.

 

[NYMorningstar]

No, it hasn't. We need 4 more pages, so that you can read the whole thing, and then post an angry post saying you don't give a fuck.

In Honor of ez willis...

An essay on being a Producer

I shall now enrich your life by sharing with you about being a Producer . I find my self constantly drawn back to the subject of being a Producer . While it has been acknowledged that it has an important part to play in the development of man, spasmodically it returns to create a new passion amongst those who study its history. Crossing many cultural barriers it still draws remarks such as 'I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole' and 'i'd rather eat wasps' from the over 50, who are yet to grow accustomed to its disombobulating nature. At the heart of the subject are a number of key factors. I plan to examine each of these factors in detail and and asses their importance.

Social Factors

Society is a simple word with a very complex definition. When Sir Bernard Chivilary said 'hounds will feast on society' [1] he must have been referning to being a Producer . While deviating from the norm will always cause unrest amongst ones peers, being a Producer provides standards by which we may judge our selves.

Did I mention how lovely being a Producer is? Society is powered by peer pressure, one of the most powerful forces in the world. As long as peer pressure uses its power for good, being a Producer will have its place in society.

Economic Factors

Increasingly economic growth and innovation are being attributed to being a Producer . We shall examine the JTB-Guide-Dog model of economics. Transport
Costs

Being a Producer


There are a number of reasons which may be attributed to this unquestionable correlation. Seemingly transport costs looms over being a Producer this cannot be a coincidence. Strong fluctuations in investor confidence have been seen over the past two financial years.

Political Factors

The media have made politics quite a spectacle. Looking at the spectrum represented by a single political party can be reminiscent of comparing being a Producer and ones own image of themselves.

One quote comes instantly to mind when examining this topic. I mean of course the words of nobel prize winner Xaviera Lionel Forbes Dickinson 'Political idealists must ideally deal, for I daily list my ideals politically.' [2] Primarily, he is referring to being a Producer. Both spectacular failure and unequaled political accomplishment may be accredited to being a Producer.

The question which we must each ask ourselves is, will we allow being a Producer to win our vote?
Conclusion

In my opinion being a Producer deserves all of the attention it gets. It questions, brings glamour to an unglamorous time and it brings the best out in people.

What a great essay. Finally a word from super-star Denzel Hanks: 'I wouldn't be where I am today without being a Producer .' [3]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[1] Sir Bernard Chivilary - Interestingly... - 1904 Badger Books

[2] Dickinson - I Am The Dickinster - 1999 Hughs Books

[3] Weekly Time smearing effects - Issue 54 - Rhino Media

 

[rnb259]

i love you guys

the thread is getting repeated over and over again lol
you know whats the best part though is that even though these "beats" as everyone keeps referencing to the actual instrumentation as is "STOLEN" when i open up a cd booklet and read the actual credits these artist whose music was sampled are given just that "there credit".

i mean maybe its me but if im lying then maybe someone should pick up a rap album thats come out in the last i don't know how many years and check these said credits. These samples get paid for...

again just my 2 cents... only caus my $1.50 wasnt appreciated LOL

i still love ya'll though

 

[stevieb]

L... So those guys that throw paint splatter on a canvas or take a crap in a jar and call it "ART." I think that's bullcrap...

So, you are not a big fan of Jackson "Jack the Dripper" Pollock, I take it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_Pollock

When I first saw a Pollock in real life, I almost fell over- the thing was that powerful. STILL (ten years later) haven't decided if I LIKE it, but can't deny it's power.

Try it for yourself (mouse click to change colors):

http://www.jacksonpollock.org/

But, back to the topic- frankly, I do NOT see every little podunk "producer" as in the same class- not even close. Back to the art analogy- when you average rube or redneck sees something like a Pollock or a Picasso, they usually say "I coudda done that!" Thing is, they could NOT- and besides, what separates the true artist from the wannabees is NOT that the wannabes COULD have done it- it is that they DIDN'T do it.

 

[rayc]

Remember the farmer is the "Primary Producer".
So beet farmers are producers of primary beets?
If you want penultimate quality you'd ask for silver beets.
If you want exotic beats you go off the beaten path.
If you want big, phat, sweet, fruity loops you'd have to consult the toucan.
Are songs by B.I.G. dead beat?
Does the rhythm section of Barracudda become a Heart Beat?
If the Priduca is disrhythmic does he produce off beats?
Raps about the difficulties of life are down beat.
I win you lose who beat whom?
Beat that!

 

[lumstar]

try to realize that the availability of moderate level devices to anyone with a credit card... while it allows us to play the home version of the game... has cheapened in every sense of the word the very art that we would make...worthy of being elevated as such...

I wouldn't say cheapened... I would say widened the field. I think it's great that anyone can spend a few thousand dollars or less and have a capable setup in their basement or bedroom. Why shouldn't they have a chance to make music too? Is the art of music production that elite a pursuit that it should only be available to the select "chosen" few?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I don't believe it's a question of age or experience, as in that guy should not call himself a "drummer" because he's not very good at it yet, or that guy should not call himself a "producer" because he's only 16 years old and working in a basement*. Nor is it a question of whether one is qualified or has the right to make music or not. That misses the point entirely.

Or, maybe, that IS the point, but not in the way people are saying. The point is that most people have no idea of what it actually means to be a producer. A "producer" - in the traditional, multi-genre, industry-wide sense of the word - doesn't even make music. To say that a music producer makes music is to say that a movie director or producer is an actor. He's not - or at least that's not his role when he's actually producing. Making music is not producing music any more than acting in a movie is producing the movie.

HERE is a very good explanation of the mindset and tasks of a producer by someone who should know. OK, he dives a bit into A&R as well as producing, but this is one excellent diatribe on the art and job of producing music.

It is so, so, so much more than just "making beats" or laying a vocal over a rhythm section or any of the standard hip hop definitions of "producer". This is the problem IMHO; it's not just a matter of quality or degree (though that's a big part of it), it's a matter of entirely different job description.

*There was a contestant on Jeopardy a few weeks ago who called himself a "music producer". He was not a little kid; he was, I'd say, in his late 20s, early 30s. But because of the modern-day corruption of the term "music producer", I didn't know whether to take him seriously or not. I didn't know if he was the next RZA or Rob Cavillo or just some hack tinkering with a few loops and samples. This is why it's important what someone calls themselves. The term "producer" used to actually mean something specific. Now it means nothing, as anyone can opt it as their title at will. This can only hurt those who use it.

Thanks Jimbo for the link

G.

 

[mshilarious]

Many years ago Arsenio Hall had an audience member that described his occupation as "businessman". Hall replied, "I know you aren't no businessman because you pronounced it 'bidnessman'"

Yeah, I watched Arsenio. You did too, you big liar

 

[Lumpy]

f off beeeatch

not that im a producer im a rapper, but dont give me that shit i know dudes who have learnt there craft and have every right to call themselves producers

tit

bitch try tellin cats like drdre n timbo aint producers
wack ass

Exactly what language was that post written in?


Lumpy

You were on CHiPs? Did you wear those sexy
tight pants and high boots like Erik Estrada?
No. Swimtrunks.
www.LumpyMusic.com

 

[Lumpy]

I think you're missing the boat a little here. We're not debating Webster's definition or people's rights to call themselves what they will. It's more of an opportunity to poke fun at people who stumble upon software and a couple of samples and suddenly call themselves "producers" in order to either: a) sleep with women or b) make vain attempts to look cool to their "dawgs"...

I think I am indeed missing the boat. If I wanted to score chickies,
I'd be leaning toward "lead guitarist" instead of "Hey baby, I'm a producer".

"Oooh Shirley! Never mind that long haired guy with the
tight leather pants, I want to meet up with a PRODUCER!"


Lumpy

You played on "The Love Boat"?
Yes. White tux, huge sideburns.

www.LumpyMusic.com

 

[stealth_prod]

Just because someone disagrees with you don't make them a "hater". What, do we really live in the fantasy world of Dubya where it's automatically "if you're not with me, you're against me"? Not the planet I live on. Stop making like you're being persecuted and downtrodden upon and hated just because someone disagrees with something you say or do.

G.

My statements were made the people like those below, not the ones that disagree with what im saying.

see right there you blew it, rap isnt music!

Im right there with you RAMI 100%. Hey and why do rappers and hippity hoppers sample so much? Cause they cant come up with anything decent themselves! So they steal......just like in their real life>

ZERO RESPECT FOR DR DRE and most hip hop producers.

Hip hop is a style of music, like it or not. If you dont like it dont listen to it but nothing gives anyone the right to criticize anyone else for the things they do, the things they spend their money on, and the things they have fun with. I do agree with RAMI that those guys that dont buy their software and are basement internet beat makers shouldnt call themselves "producers" but who am I to say anything about it, and on the other side who are you?

I respect alot of your opinions in here because you guys have helped me out alot and showed your intelligence time and time again but this thread is not a good display of that.

 

[RAMI]

guys that dont buy their software and are basement internet beat makers shouldnt call themselves "producers" but who am I to say anything about it, and on the other side who are you?

Well, the thing is, and I do respect everyone's opinion, is that it SHOULD matter what people call themselves. It might not seem to matter on the surface, but looking at the bigger picture, it does. Like Glen said earlier, if someone is looking to hire a producer, they shouldn't have to waste their time wading through a bunch of hacks mis-using the title.

What if you're looking to hire a lawyer, doctor, building inspector, or accountant??? Would you be happy to find out that the idiot you hired has absolutely no credentials, and therefore no right to be mis-representing themselves as a professional in any of those fields.

It's too bad the music industry doesn't have half the amount of self-respect other industries do.

 

[iqi616]

I don't think the title "producer" is something you earn. What you do is what you are. If you produce, you are a producer. If you don't produce, your are not a producer - even if you used to produce. At the moment, I'm not a producer because I haven't produced a finished recording all year for myself or anyone else

 

[TyphoidHippo]

...nothing gives anyone the right to criticize anyone else for the things they do, the things they spend their money on, and the things they have fun with....

This does: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

I don't agree with what the dude you quoted said, but he definitely has the right to say whatever he wants (for whatever reason he chooses...).

I know this post isn't too terribly constructive to the thread, but I have a problem with hearing about "rights that nobody has"...so, sorry.

 

[KJI]

Is Dr. Dre a producer?

Is Kanye West a producer?

I don't listen to much rap, but I'm pretty sure they are.

There are various levels and various types of producers, just like there are various levels and types of singers.

 

[Toker41]

I think the thread should be called "don't call yourself a 'sound engineer'. Anybody can produce something (just might not be any good), but not everybody (in fact, very, very few 'home recorders') are sound engineers. I know people that think "I know what sounds good, and that's all there is to it", but they couldn't be further from the truth about that being "all there is to it".

 

[NYMorningstar]

I don't think the title "producer" is something you earn. What you do is what you are. If you produce, you are a producer. If you don't produce, your are not a producer - even if you used to produce. At the moment, I'm not a producer because I haven't produced a finished recording all year for myself or anyone else

I think it boils down to those that can, produce. Those that can't, teach

 

[mshilarious]

What if you're looking to hire a lawyer, doctor, building inspector, or accountant??? Would you be happy to find out that the idiot you hired has absolutely no credentials, and therefore no right to be mis-representing themselves as a professional in any of those fields.

Anyone can call themselves an accountant! I'm an accountant, and a damn good one, and I have absolutely no credentials! Well that is, I have no license. You only need a license to be a certified public accountant, or chartered accountant, or whatever you call it in the GWN. In the US, you can check with the state boards to verify whether or not an accountant is really a CPA. Same thing with lawyer, doctor, etc.

I do have a degree, but I don't think you are suggesting that producers be required to have a degree in music industry or similar . . . it's because music production is not now and will never be a profession. Mainly because the industry eschews formal education and licensure. In fact, many are downright hostile to any standards whatsoever! Not to mention ethical standards . . .

Also, anyone can call themselves a doctor! There's Dr. John, Dr. Hook, Dr. Who, and of course Dr. Zaracemga

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

It's not a matter of someone who does taxes not being an experienced or a certified accountant, its a matter of somebody calling themselves an accountant when what they do is write poetry. It's not so much a misrepresentation of qualifications, but a misidentification of job description.

What your average "produsa" actually does resembles what a real music producer actually does about as much as as an accountant does, not because of experience or qualification, but because they are different jobs.

G.

 

[Mindset]

wow.
my only words to this thread. lol

IDK.. I am a =producer= myself. A hip hop producer.
The generalization around here is pretty out there.... lol
Couple questions..... not that I am for pirating software (because I'm not), but how is the use of "pirated software" make you not a producer? I really don't think it has anything to do with production lol.
Sampling... Personally I do it all, live to samples. But sampling does not constitute that the initial intentions was to "steal" someones work.. I have friends who are "producers" who win Grammy's & their music is a whole lot more dynamic than I'ld say 70% of the people hmm I'ld say in this forum.

Let it all be music.