Monkey Allen
Fork and spoon operator
Why get so worked up about what anybody says on an internet forum?
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mshilarious
Banned
It's jargon, and every group does it, generally as a conscious or subconscious effort to exclude those who aren't members of the community. Don't single out hip-hop, everybody does it. What the hell are "Nashville Numbers"? I mean seriously, they pretend they invented standard music theory, but use Arabic numerals instead of Roman? It's laughable (and less effective).
Have you ever written or said something like "2 bus" or "ORTF"* or "interconnect" (OK, probably not the latter
) Why not say "stereo bus" or "near-coincident cardioid pair (at 110 degrees)" or "cable"? So let's all resolve to use language that is straightforward and descriptive, so it is easily understood by all.
Maybe we're not worked up, we just like typing a lot because it beats doing real work?
* of course I am aware of the historical reasons most stereo micing techniques bear the name of their originators, but how does that really help a newbie learn what they are and how they work? 300 years from now, physics will not have changed, but no one will really care about French radio engineering of the 1960s. It's funny when you hear tapers talk about DIN, DINa, ORTF, Healey, Blumlein, Jecklin, XY, MS, AB, Decca, and a few others I'm forgetting right now. A few of those are descriptive, but only if you already know the jargon. Why not coincident, near-coincident, spaced; modified by the angle of incidence and polar pattern? Because we are lazy and it's easier to type initials, and we are cooler if other people don't know what we are talking about.
But then tapers, in particular, have their own jargon which in some cases doesn't even match standard engineering: "clipping" is rendered as "brickwalling" (there is no concept of a "hard" limiter as a "brickwall" limiter); a recording is a "pull", a mic capsule with an integral FET, such that the capsule can be remote from the rest of the mic amplifier, is said to use "active" cables, even though the cable contains no electronic components.
And are we really any different, or are we just blind to our own jargon?
Have you ever written or said something like "2 bus" or "ORTF"* or "interconnect" (OK, probably not the latter
) Why not say "stereo bus" or "near-coincident cardioid pair (at 110 degrees)" or "cable"? So let's all resolve to use language that is straightforward and descriptive, so it is easily understood by all.Maybe we're not worked up, we just like typing a lot because it beats doing real work?
* of course I am aware of the historical reasons most stereo micing techniques bear the name of their originators, but how does that really help a newbie learn what they are and how they work? 300 years from now, physics will not have changed, but no one will really care about French radio engineering of the 1960s. It's funny when you hear tapers talk about DIN, DINa, ORTF, Healey, Blumlein, Jecklin, XY, MS, AB, Decca, and a few others I'm forgetting right now. A few of those are descriptive, but only if you already know the jargon. Why not coincident, near-coincident, spaced; modified by the angle of incidence and polar pattern? Because we are lazy and it's easier to type initials, and we are cooler if other people don't know what we are talking about.
But then tapers, in particular, have their own jargon which in some cases doesn't even match standard engineering: "clipping" is rendered as "brickwalling" (there is no concept of a "hard" limiter as a "brickwall" limiter); a recording is a "pull", a mic capsule with an integral FET, such that the capsule can be remote from the rest of the mic amplifier, is said to use "active" cables, even though the cable contains no electronic components.
And are we really any different, or are we just blind to our own jargon?
Monkey Allen
Fork and spoon operator
Yeah well I can't blame you for that
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deejaytrixx
New member
Did I ever tell you guys how much I LOVVVVE this forum..especially this mix forum...Good reading and laughs in between tracks....
Everyone gets so worked up and technical here...Please..engineer, producer..who really gives a shit? Can you make good MUSIC?
Every music forum I've seen is the same..a bunch of ppl who humbly say they don't know shit about this industry, a bunch of 10 or more year "pro's" who claim to know everything about this industry...and everyone is fighting to say who should be called who, who is qualified for what..blah blah f-ing blah,
Before I did this music thing full time, I was a licensed architect. I took a test, after a lengthy internship and earned the title...But in music, there are no proficiency exams to say the least..Its who ever everyone feels is actually worthy of the title, because of their lengthy discography of number one hits.. Fuck that shit..its all bullshit..some of the best music never gets placement on the billboards..
Or dear I say, a new kid..pimply faced, under 50 years of age, with only one year under his belt, no preconceived notions of how to do things, does something absolutely outstanding, genius,,,and here's the kicker....NEW!
That's what new blood is all about..fresh ideas to get rid of the prehistoric thinking of yesterday..u know..from analog to digital..shit like that..
So this kid, who has created a masterpiece is less of an engineer or producer because he hasn't spent 10 years in studio's doing the same shit over and over?...please.. Or the guy who has 300 records under his belt that all sound the same, close to the same or exactly the same is a "pro".
A producer makes a piece of music..directs its path along the many lines of tasks it will take before its release..He puts a studio budget together, he hires the talents to make the record..Even though he should be well rounded in all aspects...he doesn't have to be an expert in any particular one..THAT IS WHY PRODUCERS HIRE PPL. Just like when I was an architect, sometimes u hire that engineer who specializes in steel frame buildings.
AND DARE I SAY ANOTHER THING...Those little kids coming up..you know..who make the loops into a contiguous file..mix it themselves..then mix the vocals on it..then press it...do their own marketing..and sell 1 million copies online and go platinum...They have done more than the "pro" ducer normally does..Some of the biggest names in "pro"duction never actually do anything but give an opinion and make orders. They only touch the fader on the board to look important...cause that is the level of respect they have attained..They no longer have to prove they can do it...but that doesn't qualify them to have the title any more than that kid with the next big hit who wore every hat in making that record that the studio has to offer.
Hip hop, by definition, does misinterpret the word producer...The "beat" makers are really composers. Or it starts off that way! Because then comes mixing, mastering, recording and all the other shit associated with making a record. I think it is beneath any pro to denounce what these guys do. If you call yourself a pro, you would understand this process and have a respect for it..just like an architect who does residential can appreciate the guy who designs the coffee shop...both deserve the title architect.
In my experience, it is often the ppl who lend air to the most criticism, who usually sound the most average. Its one thing to talk and know about polarity, and Ohm's Law, resistance, inversing signals, psycho acoustics and how to tune a room...Its a whole other thing to make something sound good however...technical savvy alone in this business doesn't cut it..you cant make a "Technical Hit" for the general public..But u can make a great SOUNDING hit for the public..and that is who qualifies you in this business...not your peers..cause I don't think a producer will hire me to produce his client now will he?
Everyone gets so worked up and technical here...Please..engineer, producer..who really gives a shit? Can you make good MUSIC?
Every music forum I've seen is the same..a bunch of ppl who humbly say they don't know shit about this industry, a bunch of 10 or more year "pro's" who claim to know everything about this industry...and everyone is fighting to say who should be called who, who is qualified for what..blah blah f-ing blah,
Before I did this music thing full time, I was a licensed architect. I took a test, after a lengthy internship and earned the title...But in music, there are no proficiency exams to say the least..Its who ever everyone feels is actually worthy of the title, because of their lengthy discography of number one hits.. Fuck that shit..its all bullshit..some of the best music never gets placement on the billboards..
Or dear I say, a new kid..pimply faced, under 50 years of age, with only one year under his belt, no preconceived notions of how to do things, does something absolutely outstanding, genius,,,and here's the kicker....NEW!
That's what new blood is all about..fresh ideas to get rid of the prehistoric thinking of yesterday..u know..from analog to digital..shit like that..
So this kid, who has created a masterpiece is less of an engineer or producer because he hasn't spent 10 years in studio's doing the same shit over and over?...please.. Or the guy who has 300 records under his belt that all sound the same, close to the same or exactly the same is a "pro".
A producer makes a piece of music..directs its path along the many lines of tasks it will take before its release..He puts a studio budget together, he hires the talents to make the record..Even though he should be well rounded in all aspects...he doesn't have to be an expert in any particular one..THAT IS WHY PRODUCERS HIRE PPL. Just like when I was an architect, sometimes u hire that engineer who specializes in steel frame buildings.
AND DARE I SAY ANOTHER THING...Those little kids coming up..you know..who make the loops into a contiguous file..mix it themselves..then mix the vocals on it..then press it...do their own marketing..and sell 1 million copies online and go platinum...They have done more than the "pro" ducer normally does..Some of the biggest names in "pro"duction never actually do anything but give an opinion and make orders. They only touch the fader on the board to look important...cause that is the level of respect they have attained..They no longer have to prove they can do it...but that doesn't qualify them to have the title any more than that kid with the next big hit who wore every hat in making that record that the studio has to offer.
Hip hop, by definition, does misinterpret the word producer...The "beat" makers are really composers. Or it starts off that way! Because then comes mixing, mastering, recording and all the other shit associated with making a record. I think it is beneath any pro to denounce what these guys do. If you call yourself a pro, you would understand this process and have a respect for it..just like an architect who does residential can appreciate the guy who designs the coffee shop...both deserve the title architect.
In my experience, it is often the ppl who lend air to the most criticism, who usually sound the most average. Its one thing to talk and know about polarity, and Ohm's Law, resistance, inversing signals, psycho acoustics and how to tune a room...Its a whole other thing to make something sound good however...technical savvy alone in this business doesn't cut it..you cant make a "Technical Hit" for the general public..But u can make a great SOUNDING hit for the public..and that is who qualifies you in this business...not your peers..cause I don't think a producer will hire me to produce his client now will he?
BushmasterM4
Well-known member
I know what you mean. I only buy about 4 at a time.
My wife makes banana nut bread out of the brown ones. mmmmmmmmmm
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adamangler
New member
Like I said:
HAHAHA! My, how we get defensive when we feel the truth has cut right through us.
That's funny. I never said anything about Hip-Hop. The fact that you assumed I did should tell you something right there.
I never said anything about Dr. Dre. Read my post again. I obviously typed too fast for you.
I find it interesting how, when you throw a rock into the ocean, it only hurts the fish that it happens to hit.
ok. i did respond like an idiot lol.
but its obvious you were talkin about hip hop. and its insulting.
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adamangler
New member
The dude would piss his pants if he had to run a session with a live drummer, guitars or a horn section.
maybe so. i dont know.
i doubt it tho.
but why would he want to?
hes probably the most succesfull PRODUCER in the biggest genre of music today.
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RAMI
Guest
That's cool. I respond like an idiot on a regular basis. Nobody's perfect.
And, I wasn't talking about Hip-Hop in general. I love a lot of hip-hop. Mostly older stuff because, like every style of music, there's nothing new happening after a few years. The same thing happened with hard rock, metal, etc....
But, I was talking about the kid that pirates Frooty Loops, samples his first James Brown loop, and then goes around telling everyone to dig his Madd Skillzz Producer Beatzz. If people were doing that with rock or any style of music, I'd be criticising that, too.
Now I feel bad about the Neg Rep I gave you. I can't give you any rep now, but can someone please give Adamangler some love so that he turns green again. It's not fair that he has a red line of dots just because of one person (me).EDIT: Cool. Looks like it already happened.
noisedude
New member
LOL @ Bedroom 'producers'!!
"Hey man, I'm a producer, you wanna work with me?"
"You mean you have a cracked copy of Fruity or Live and a bunch of pirated samples on your PC?"
"Hater!!"
"Hey man, I'm a producer, you wanna work with me?"
"You mean you have a cracked copy of Fruity or Live and a bunch of pirated samples on your PC?"
"Hater!!"
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
There's a big difference, Jon. Those are all different names for the same thing. With the "producer" vs. "produsa" it's the same name for different things.Have you ever written or said something like "2 bus" or "ORTF"* or "interconnect" (OK, probably not the latter
The former does not lead to ambiguity or confusion; there is only one fundamental definition for ORTF, and everybody knows and agrees what ORTF means. The later does cause ambiguity and confusion; OK, this guy is a "producer"; does that mean he's qualified to run a production or does that mean he's good at throwing rhythm tracks and lead vocals together? That's an important difference that one cannot just brush off.
If I'm looking for a real producer to manage a project for me, I need to know if I'm looking at a producer or a produca if I'm to tell whether the person is qualifiable or not. And when it comes to communicating in forums like this, without knowing just which we're talking about, there's a lot of misunderstanding that can and has happened.
G.
Rokket
Trailing Behind Again
Fuck all of this!
I am Batman...
I am Batman...
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eternalpayn
New member
Shhh! If people find that out, the people who graduated from the 'med-school' I run will want their money back! Or even worse, write 'scam' on my telephone pole flyer!
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dementedchord
Psychotic State alumni ch
for me the irony is in the ones who misappropriate the title of producer are the same ones who claim they are being dissed... yet they don't see that "they are" the diss of those who worked and deserve the title...
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eternalpayn
New member
The word 'producer' is misappropriated in every sense... The producer doesn't actually produce the music, the artist does. They should be called "creative director" or "studio god."
And for the record, I'm not saying that you are dissing me; I'm not calling myself a producer. I'm pretty sure that producers understand the difference between them and rap producers, and aren't offended at all.
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dementedchord
Psychotic State alumni ch
The word 'producer' is misappropriated in every sense... The producer doesn't actually produce the music, the artist does. They should be called "creative director" or "studio god."
And for the record, I'm not saying that you are dissing me; I'm not calling myself a producer. I'm pretty sure that producers understand the difference between them and rap producers, and aren't offended at all.
not sure how to take the first comment... are you refering to an actuall producer or a sears producer??? historicly guys that i respsected as producers... like roger nichols (steely dan) had their hands in essentialy every phase of production... helped with arrangements... hired the studio guns... was responsible for overseeing the artists concept and assuring it came out... and even responsable for the budget and was laison to the labels... sat with the engineer durring tracking and mix... so thats a pretty specific and wide ranging role...
as to the second statement... i too am sure that real producers understand the diff... but i assure you they are offended... a grammy for producer of the year was mad you a thing of legend.... now you can pawn them for drugs.... pathetic state of affairs actually....
try to realize that the availability of moderate level devices to anyone with a credit card... while it allows us to play the home version of the game... has cheapened in every sense of the word the very art that we would make... just because you can record every stroke of this masturbation doesn't mean it is worthy of being elevated as such...
X
XLR
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ANSWER MY QUESTION DAMMIT!!!!11!!! 
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axeman_ukl
New member
is this forum called homerecording.com or i do this for a living.com a homerecorder would not give a flying f&*k what you call yourself only a person who does this for a living would care that an imposter could take business away from him by impersonmating a title and should be on the i do this for a living forum not here !
personally i could not care less what anybody called themself....queen of sheeba for all i care
this has wasted enough cyber space
personally i could not care less what anybody called themself....queen of sheeba for all i care
this has wasted enough cyber space
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RAMI
Guest
No, it hasn't. We need 4 more pages, so that you can read the whole thing, and then post an angry post saying you don't give a fuck.
Chili
Site Moderator
No, it hasn't. We need 4 more pages, so that you can read the whole thing, and then post an angry post saying you don't give a fuck.
I can't believe it made it to 78 posts so quickly. Oops, 79.
mshilarious
Banned
No, it hasn't. We need 4 more pages, so that you can read the whole thing, and then post an angry post saying you don't give a fuck.
You're right. Let's kill ourselves.
We can't? Why not?
Because we are waiting for a producer
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