Help ID'ing old Epiphone bass

[muttley600]

look through the right Fhole, the sound post is a 3/4" spruce or pine dowell going from the bass top to the back.

It is always spruce never pine. The dowel is selected for perfectly quarter sawn and tight grain. The orientation of the grain in it's final position is also important. It runs at right angles to the grain of the top. The fit has to be perfect to match the compound curve of the top and back. It should also sit perfectly upright and snug not loose or too tight. It is not a "few minute job" to get it fitted correctly. To maximise the tone and projection you want to get it done properly.

the smaller the instrument the more tedious it is to fit and set a sound post.

Rubbish, with the right tools, experience and knowledge it makes no difference. If your doing your first couple of soundpost sets maybe..

 

[Roguetitan]

It is always spruce never pine. The dowel is selected for perfectly quarter sawn and tight grain. The orientation of the grain in it's final position is also important. It runs at right angles to the grain of the top. The fit has to be perfect to match the compound curve of the top and back. It should also sit perfectly upright and snug not loose or too tight. It is not a "few minute job" to get it fitted correctly. To maximise the tone and projection you want to get it done properly.

Rubbish, with the right tools, experience and knowledge it makes no difference. If your doing your first couple of soundpost sets maybe..

what the fuck do you think spruce is? it is an evergreen the same as pine
I also know for a fact several violin makers who use aged white pine exclusively for sound posts because they say that it resonates better than spruce.
I have hand made a large number of violins in my career and
i have set a whole lot more posts than the number of violins I have built pal and I have the proper tools to do the job I know that setting a sound post in a violin through the F hole is more like building a ship in a bottle compaired to installing one in an upright bass
stop being a knowitall already
come on by my shop and I will give you a tour of the facility some time.

 

[muttley600]

what the fuck do you think spruce is? it is an evergreen the same as pine
I also know for a fact several violin makers who use aged white pine exclusively for sound posts because they say that it resonates better than spruce.
I have hand made a large number of violins in my career and
i have set a whole lot more posts than the number of violins I have built pal and I have the proper tools to do the job I know that setting a sound post in a violin through the F hole is more like building a ship in a bottle compaired to installing one in an upright bass
stop being a knowitall already
come on by my shop and I will give you a tour of the facility some time.

Whatever,

Pinky it's your choice mate...you decide.

 

[muttley600]

what the fuck do you think spruce is? it is an evergreen the same as pine

Thats priceless - Thanks you've just made my day.....

Is an apple the same as a pear? They are both fruits?

 

[Roguetitan]

Sorry Roguetitan but you have persisted with the lemon oil thing.

A word on why this might not be appropriate. Lemon oil is a non drying oil. It is suitable for your unfinished fingerboards on guitars etc.

Violin school luthiers prefer other oils for their fingerboards but thats another story. It would also not do much harm if you use it on a synthetic finish. Violin family instruments are finished with either a spirit varnish or an oil varnish (this x bass may not be!). As a rule they are soft and wear quite easily. They can be effected by contaminants. Most violin school luthiers will advise cleaning with a very slightly damp cloth or in extreme cases a mild alcohol wash. I wouldn't suggest you do either yet. Just a wipe with a dry clean cloth. More importantly those old instruments often have cracks that are barely visible at first, some are. If you get oil in them you are increasing the work needed to repair them. I've had many a good session cleaning oil and dirt out of splits and top cracks before they can be fixed with hide glue. Also the common way in which hide glue is separated is by use of localised water (cotton wool twisted into strands and layed on the glue joint or crack is the normal way) and gentle heat. Should your bass need any cracks re-set or parts unglued, cracks closed whatever any oil there is going to make the job harder. It will also help to seal dirt into any splits cracks or loose glue joints. They should be cleaned dry and re-glued first.

Trust me as someone who has seen first hand the problems this can present. Your choice but I wouldn't clean with lemon oil in this case. If you want it to smell nice hang a car air freshner off the tuning peg.

you will use alcohol on a stringed instrument but not lemon oil that is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard alcohol will ruin a finish on a violin in a heart beat.
lemon oil is excellent for unfinished fingerboard it is much safer to use than alcohol for shure.
and BTW my craft was not learned in any luthier school it is a craft that has been in our family for many genreations.
why dont you come to the realization that you dont know it all.

 

[Roguetitan]

Thats priceless - Thanks you've just made my day.....

Is an apple the same as a pear? They are both fruits?

what ever

fuckin knowitall limeys

 

[muttley600]

you will use alcohol on a stringed instrument but not lemon oil that is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard alcohol will ruin a finish on a violin in a heart beat.
lemon oil is excellent for unfinished fingerboard it is much safer to use than alcohol for shure.
and BTW my craft was not learned in any luthier school it is a craft that has been in our family for many genreations.
why dont you come to the realization that you dont know it all.

First, I will use alcohol on a stringed instrument when it is appropriate. I will use lemon oil when it is appropriate.

Just to quote myself here because you don't seem to have read it correctly....

It is suitable for your unfinished fingerboards on guitars etc.

So where did I say I use alcohol on unfinished fingerborads? As it happens in most cases that would be quite safe. Glad we've cleared that one up.

Now, Alcohol will not ruin the finish on a violin if it is used correctly. A light alcohol wash is often used to prep surfaces and areas before repair work is carried out it is also used to clean cracks and splits before closing. Everything depends on how it is applied and why as well as the nature of the finish, oil or spirit varnish. But then Hils of London as well as Bridgewood and Hietzert would have had it wrong for generations I suppose because thats where I learned it from? I'll be sure to tell them when I see them next week dropping and collecting repair work.

I do realise I don't know it all, but in this case just a little more than you do. Thanks for pointing it out all the same. Touchy sensitive septics..

 

[Roguetitan]

I do realise I don't know it all, but in this case just a little more than you do. Thanks for pointing it out all the same. Touchy sensitive septics..

I noticed your location is in your head

boy you sure got that right

Know this...
I just love this ignore option this forum has and you just made the list TTFN.

 

[muttley600]

Thank heavens for that!!! No more sulhy PM's

Pinky, best advice whatever the bickering. Get that bass to someone who can look at it in front of him. He or she will tell you exactly what condition it's in and what parts you need. They'll be able to advise on the condition of the top, and any cracks or splits They are common on old basses. I would advise you don't do anything to it yourself unless your confident in what your doing. Mistakes now could devalue and add to the repair cost. You could well be lucky and just need strings and a setup, but why take the risk. We haven't seen it and someone needs too. It's potentially a nice instrument. Good luck with it.

 

[Pinky]

Thanks for the spirited help guys.

I'm certainly comfortable trying myself and won't hesitate to stop if I'm missing something or suddenly notice a crack ,etc. There's no rush as well as no need at this time to assume it needs special attention. I'll know more in a just a few days, hang tight . First step is to look for the soundpost, then take a bunch of photos, then report back here with my findings.

I'm not planning on cleaning it. Instruments play fine without being cleaned. Probably the last thing to be done. It's actually not that dirty, it's been in an old soft cover bag and wrapped in shipping grade plastic for who knows how long. Unfortunately it's not mint due to being used for a number of years, but considering its age and use it would probably be graded in very good condition.

 

[muttley600]

Thanks for the spirited help guys.

I'm certainly comfortable trying myself and won't hesitate to stop if I'm missing something or suddenly notice a crack ,etc. There's no rush as well as no need at this time to assume it needs special attention. I'll know more in a just a few days, hang tight .

I'm not planning on cleaning it. Instruments play fine without being cleaned. Probably the last thing to be done.

No problem, my toys are still well and truely safe in my pram..

Just keep in mind one thing that both Rougetitan and myself agree on. Violin family instruments need to be kept strung up under tension to help keep their integrity. A few days or weeks will likely not be a problem but don't leave it too long. Violin family instruments are also very susceptible to humidity and weather changes so get it looked at as soon as you can. Even more so when not strung up and being moved. Hope it turns out to be a winner for you whatever.

 

[rayc]

We had our septic removed last year.
Not a pretty smell!
Maybe we should settle on oil thinned with alcohol OR better still, Get the slice of lemon, a bit of salt & some tequila, that's be the oil, a soluble abrasive and the alcohol.
Imbiding heavily we could all WIPE ourselves out in the greater cause of international relations (Oz always being caught between the imperial folk and those who preferred coffee).
I think the bass looks lovely, I'm hanging out for snaps & a soundclip, I want one, I want yours in fact Pinky, and would be prepared to pay freight if you were to give it to me!
Oh, Limey is, when looked at in etymological terms, a compliment. Brit sailors were required to drink lime juice generally, & Cpt Cook introduced sauerkraut to the high seas diet, to prevent scurvy. Hence a limey was a sailor in the British navy (pressganged or otherwise) who sensibly ingested the liquid to live better & longer than others. Typically a non lime juice tub would have one third of its crew die of the dreaded disease.

 

[Milnoque]

Your Epiphone Bass probably has a nitrocellulose finish. If so, any product suitable for your guitars would be good for your bass. Lemon oil would not hurt the finish but I've never been a fan. This is especially true if there is much finish checking. I'm aware that many people disagree with me about that.

It is my opinion that you should have someone qualified assess your instrument before you attempt any repairs yourself. Almost every violin luthier I've met enjoys talking about his craft and you could learn alot from the visit. The information you could get from him with the instrument in hand would be much better than any you could get here.

There is some good information specific to violin family instruments out there. You would do well to do some reading. As with guitar luthiery, common sense will only carry you part of the way.

By the fifties, upright basses were the most profitable sector of Epiphone's business. Even so, they are not common. You now own a fine vintage instrument. With that comes a responsibilty to preserve it for future generations.

 

[Pinky]

First, I apologise for it taking so long to get photos. The bass is being stored at the deceased father's house and it's 20 miles away.

While there yesterday I took a bunch of photos, covering every inch of the bass in detail. I dusted it off but used no cleaning agent. There's a lot of cracking in the (paint), but there's no cracked wood anywhere I can see. I looked it over very carefully. We also found (2) $1 1935 E dollar bills inside of the bass body. I managed to fish them out, and they're probably keepsakes.

The soundpost is in there. It appears to be in the correct position. On the second photo I drew a red dot where it approximately is. Based on the scuff marks on the dust inside of the bass, and the tight/perfect fit of the soundpost in that position, I have reason to believe this was where it was orignally set.

I'm not sure what the metal piece near the "epiphone" logo is. There's a patch cable with the bass but the end doesn't fit that metal piece. I was thinking it was some type of pickup, and has a threaded end.

So I'm feeling confident that the bass is ready for strings. I'll keep the old E string on, add the D, rmoved and replace the E, add the G, and last the A (unless someone has a better plan to keep the tension on a one-string bass ). If I hear anything cracking or notice any exagerrated warping of the wood around the sound hole I will immediately stop and bring it to a local repair shop.

Thanks again for all the advice and my knowledge of double bass guitars has grown exponentially just being involved in the process.

 

[Roguetitan]

First, I apologise for it taking so long to get photos. The bass is being stored at the deceased father's house and it's 20 miles away.

While there yesterday I took a bunch of photos, covering every inch of the bass in detail. I dusted it off but used no cleaning agent. There's a lot of cracking in the (paint), but there's no cracked wood anywhere I can see. I looked it over very carefully. We also found (2) $1 1935 E dollar bills inside of the bass body. I managed to fish them out, and they're probably keepsakes.

The soundpost is in there. It appears to be in the correct position. On the second photo I drew a red dot where it approximately is. Based on the scuff marks on the dust inside of the bass, and the tight/perfect fit of the soundpost in that position, I have reason to believe this was where it was orignally set.

I'm not sure what the metal piece near the "epiphone" logo is. There's a patch cable with the bass but the end doesn't fit that metal piece. I was thinking it was some type of pickup, and has a threaded end.

So I'm feeling confident that the bass is ready for strings. I'll keep the old E string on, add the D, rmoved and replace the E, add the G, and last the A (unless someone has a better plan to keep the tension on a one-string bass ). If I hear anything cracking or notice any exagerrated warping of the wood around the sound hole I will immediately stop and bring it to a local repair shop.

Thanks again for all the advice and my knowledge of double bass guitars has grown exponentially just being involved in the process.

The bridge looks good all that Bass needs is new strings
that bass should bring a very good price if you decide to sell it.

 

[rayc]

That looks BEWDIFUL.
I am, how you say?, jealous.

 

[Milnoque]

Congratulations!! That thing's a beauty.

Since the soundpost is in place and you've inspected it carefully, I'd say string her up and get thumpin'.


I would love to see a picture of the attachment on your tailpiece if you get a chance.

 

[Milnoque]

By the way, It may be worth your time to find out what you can about the prior owner(s) of your bass. Uprights were, more often than not, owned by professional musician's. Even if it's owner just played in local bands the provenance could be helpful should you decide to sell it. Sometimes it adds a couple of hundred to the sale price.

 

[Pinky]

I would love to see a picture of the attachment on your tailpiece if you get a chance.

The piece that has the epiphone badge?

By the way, It may be worth your time to find out what you can about the prior owner(s) of your bass. Uprights were, more often than not, owned by professional musician's. Even if it's owner just played in local bands the provenance could be helpful should you decide to sell it. Sometimes it adds a couple of hundred to the sale price.

Story is known, since it was my girlfriend's father's. It was played by another relative in a band headed by Bugsy Bachinsky who was a reknown pianist in his time (unfortunately I couldn't find anything on him through google, so he wasn't that famous). But we have a newspaper clipping with a photo of Bugsy, singer, and bassist playing this bass. I'm going to scan it and frame it for safe keeping.

 

[Pinky]

The piece that has the epiphone badge?

Nevermind this post, I realized shortly after posting you were wondering about the metal attachment that I think is part of a pickup of some type. I'll get a better photo and also a photo of the patch cable with the funny end when we get the bass in a few days.

With that being said, a couple more bits of news.

1) Bass strings ordered, $100 D'addario Pizzicato. I figured hybrid or orchestral would be a waste since I'm not investing in a bow anytime soon.

2) Bass stand ordered.

3) Found newspaper article referenced in prior post. Mentions Woody Herman (famous big band leader) coming to see John "Buggsy" Bachinsky play at a Troy NY college. Scanned and framed a copy to stay with the bass for eternity.

4) We're 100% keeping the bass now and have reserved a spot for it in the living room.
____________________________

Any suggestions for starting to play it? Mainly some basic technique and proper positions...