VHS multitrack

[themaddog]

Has anyone ever designed a VHS multi track recorder? I know people talk about bouncing tracks to VHS or mixing down to VHS a lot here. But, VHS tape is so cheap these days, and it's 1/2 inch, so if it were possible to record on all of it, the sound should be decent with 8 tracks. Does anyone have any idea how fast an SP VHS tape runs at (in inches per second)?

Has anyone tried undertaking this before? I know it would take a radical head design or something, and maybe I'm being way too optimistic here but I feel like you could do a lot with such a format. There are only a few problems that I can forsee:

1- The tape can't be run fast enough (like a 'super' SP if the quality weren't good enough)

2- There might be problems with the cassette reels running it back and forth so much, it might not be as "accurrate" for making passes as reel to reel or a good cassette

3- Designing the heads

Any insight into this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you,
-MD

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Hmmm........... any chance you've heard of ADAT???? (these little gizmos caused a minor revolution in the Recording Industry back in the 90's........)

 

[Farview]

Before you start brainstorming about the smaller 8mm video tapes, Tascam beat you to it.

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Standard VCR's at SP, run at 1,7/8ips; the same speed as a standard home cassette deck and if you've ever heard the quality,(or lack there-of) of the linear soundtrack on a VCR you'll know pretty quickly why the analog multitrack VCR never caught on.

Keep in mind too that video tape is a completely different formulation that is optimized to recording video only in a helical scanning system that speeds up the writing speed to capture video frequencies which are in the megahertz.

Audio recorders need tape that is optimized and designed for the frequency's range in kilohertz and as cheap and plentiful as blank video cassettes are its like being in the desert and being surrounded by miles of free sand when all you really needed is a glass of water.

Cheers!

 

[lansingxcore]

i'm glad somebody takes the time to answer perfectly reasonable questions instead of just taking cheap jabs.. the guy was obviously asking about analog recording to that format (since this is the analog only forum), and i have wondered that myself.. thanks ghost, now we know.

if you don't have something nice to say...

 

[cjacek]

Sounds familiar ........

I recall a similar question posed on the now defunct TASCAM board, many, many moons ago ....... Now to think of it, I think it was I who asked .. Hmm ... Got many replies but it got nowhere really fast. There was one recorder, someone posted a photo of it even, which recorded on what looked like a regular VHS/BETA video tape but it wasn't, just looked like it .... The format never cought on and it's doubtful that it ever will. Hell, it is more likely that Open Reel decks will soon make a comeback, and we all know how low that possibility is, than some company making a VHS tape multitracker ... Still, a good question and comments by the original poster.

Daniel

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Its deja vu all over again!

That's right, Daniel.

We did discuss this topic on the old board and it was Derek Verner who posed the original question.

AKAI did make the MG1212 which used Beta cassette shells loaded with the equivalent of Ampex 457 tape to record analog sound in a linear fashion at 7.5 ips with dbx type I professional noise reduction along with an integrated mixer. The whole thing retailed for over 7 grand and was really the only competition to the Studio8 from TASCAM which still is used by many people on this bbs!

Cheers!

 

[themaddog]

Thanks

Thanks everyone, particuarly Ghost. Yes, I am aware of ADAT, but I wanted something "better" than 20-bit/48k recording (not to add fire to either side of the analog/digital wars).

-MD

 

[TeyshaBlue]

I had a MG1212 for about 4 months before it was stolen and never recovered.
Scary damn machine that should have ruled the world in project and home studios. Good mixer section too, built by Yamaha. I don't remember one single advertisement for this machine.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Yes, I am aware of ADAT, but I wanted something "better" than 20-bit/48k recording

Too funny........!

 

[A Reel Person]

That was a HUGE thread at the old tascambbs!

I believe it was cjacek that floated the original topic, not that turd burglar Derek Verner.

The idea was tossed around a lot, when we all harkened back to the AKAI MG-1212 and MG-1214, two analog porta-format multitrackers that used a cartridge roughly the same size as a Beta cartridge.

General concensus: Good idea? Maybe. Too little/too late? Definitely.

 

[cjacek]

Ahh ... the good 'ol TASCAM board ......

 

[The Ghost of FM]

I believe it was cjacek that floated the original topic, not that turd burglar Derek Verner.

You might be right!

My apologies to Daniel if I am in error.

I do remember Derek being a very active participant in that thread and perhaps why my memory banks are shorting out a bit.

Cheers!

 

[qubeular]

back the the original topic.

i thought if this a few months ago if you can fit four tracks on a 1/8 inch wide tape than you could prolly fit 16 tracks on the tape. i was thinking of makeing a recording head for the tape out of four 1/8 inch tape heads, the ones used in those cheaper auto reverse decks. the quality wouldnt be that great, but it would be a proof of concept.

 

[A Reel Person]

I don't know about your scheme to stack common consumer cassette heads,...

but this whole 1/2" cartridge "port-a-studio" is feasible, alright.

Been there & done that, in the mid 80's, with the Akai MG-1212.

 

[cjacek]

but this whole 1/2" cartridge "port-a-studio" is feasible, alright.

Been there & done that, in the mid 80's, with the Akai MG-1212.

Sweet machine! Thanks Dave!

How many tracks on that bad boy ?? What was the speed ?

~Daniel

 

[cjacek]

With the TASCAM 388 readily available and its reliance on regular open reel tape, no wonder the Akai 1212 didn't make a dent in the market.

Anyway, from the Akai 1212 manual (got it on their site) it says that the recorder employed 3 "Super GX" heads (I assume glass heads ??) and speeds of 19 cm/s, 9.5 cm/s on 14 tracks/4 channel 1/2" tape. It also had dbx 1 NR!

Pretty interesting and highly original.

Daniel

 

[A Reel Person]

Yes.

For the rest of us, it's 7.5ips and 3-3/4ips,... 12 tracks I believe.

... but I'm not arguing with the guy who went to the Akai site.

Some of those "official" and "manufacturer" sites sometimes post little inaccuracies about their own legacy gear,... such as when Tascambbs posted that the 244 was released in 1984, when most of us had them in 1982.

The Akai MG-1212 was 12 tracks on a 1/2" analog tape cartridge, comparable in size to a Beta cartridge.

Exhibit B: The Akai MG-1214

 

[cjacek]

For the rest of us, it's 7.5ips and 3-3/4ips,... 12 tracks I believe.

... but I'm not arguing with the guy who went to the Akai site.

Some of those "official" and "manufacturer" sites sometimes post little inaccuracies about their own legacy gear,... such as when Tascambbs posted that the 244 was released in 1984, when most of us had them in 1982.

The Akai MG-1212 was 12 tracks on a 1/2" analog tape cartridge, comparable in size to a Beta cartridge.

Exhibit B: The Akai MG-1214

Dave,

I took the info from the actual 1212 manual that Akai Pro had uploaded and changed to a pdf file online:

Here's the direct link and the info can be found on page 4 of the manual.

http://www.akaipro.co.jp/global/archiveOM/MG1212om.zip

Thanks

Daniel

 

[The Ghost of FM]

The 13th and 14th tracks are not for normal audio.

The 13th track is a sync channel for recording SMTPE time code and the 14th track is a Continuity track which records a proprietary code for the unit so that it perform automated pinch in and outs with greater accuracy that doesn't depend on the time counter solely as a means of locating these parts on the tape as counters do drift from slippage and other design foibles.

Cheers!