MrZekeMan
New member
Jan said:
You're right Jan. If you are in a position to audition different mics through a GOOD preamp, by all means do so. Don't buy the C1 because you think it sounds like a U87 or anything else. Buy it because you like the mic.
If you are like a lot of folks on this site, you don't have access to auditioning mics. Buy one from someone who has a return policy. If that's not an option, you can take to heart the reviews from the home users here that have used them. Or you can rely on ones like Harvey and some of the other reviewers that have said it's a decent mic, and gamble your 2 C-notes. I have one. I don't think you'll be disappointed.
If you are, I'll let you recoup half your money, and I'll buy it from you for a 100 bucks.
Zeke
C
CarmenC
New member
By the way Ammeth...
If you move up 8 posts from your last post on this subject, you'll fine numerous links to places on this board alone where Alan has been helpful without pimping his own stuff. How embaressing for you.
You owe Alan an apology...
JMHO,
C
If you move up 8 posts from your last post on this subject, you'll fine numerous links to places on this board alone where Alan has been helpful without pimping his own stuff. How embaressing for you.
You owe Alan an apology...
JMHO,
C
M
musix
New member
what did I start?
Thanx for the Info
Thanx for the Info
J
jet-rocker
New member
After being highly skeptical of Alan at first here's my take:
1. Yeah he's here to sell mics. Big deal. He's open about. I like having him around, because I'm skeptical enough to decipher the sales-speak.
2. His product is pretty good, at a very reasonable price. I don't own one of his mikes, but I've heard enough samples to think that his mike ain't so bad. And if Harvey says so too... at least he's not shoveling up junk.
I don't own a U87, and I never will. I don't want to. This is a hobby for me. I record at home. If I had $2,000 it wouldn't be going to a mic, that's for sure.
3. Alan has a hot temper and sometimes says innappropriate things. Yup, but at least he's not alone in this. Though it's bad PR.
4. Alan provides great customer service. That's a huge plus in my book. Ever try to get ahold of Fostex...
5. The only thing that get's me are the ocassions where someone with a low (1-5) post count pops up to extoll the virtues of the C-1. Ever see Dot again.... I haven't.
So don't run the guy off the board. Take him with a grain of salt. I have benefitted from his posts. Yeah, this post started out a little heavy handed... but he got called on it.
I think that it's great that he's willing to come down to our level to explain his products. He cares about his product, he also cares about the bottom line. So don't read him like an encyclopedia, and you'll be fine.
-Jett
1. Yeah he's here to sell mics. Big deal. He's open about. I like having him around, because I'm skeptical enough to decipher the sales-speak.
2. His product is pretty good, at a very reasonable price. I don't own one of his mikes, but I've heard enough samples to think that his mike ain't so bad. And if Harvey says so too... at least he's not shoveling up junk.
I don't own a U87, and I never will. I don't want to. This is a hobby for me. I record at home. If I had $2,000 it wouldn't be going to a mic, that's for sure.
3. Alan has a hot temper and sometimes says innappropriate things. Yup, but at least he's not alone in this. Though it's bad PR.
4. Alan provides great customer service. That's a huge plus in my book. Ever try to get ahold of Fostex...
5. The only thing that get's me are the ocassions where someone with a low (1-5) post count pops up to extoll the virtues of the C-1. Ever see Dot again.... I haven't.
So don't run the guy off the board. Take him with a grain of salt. I have benefitted from his posts. Yeah, this post started out a little heavy handed... but he got called on it.
I think that it's great that he's willing to come down to our level to explain his products. He cares about his product, he also cares about the bottom line. So don't read him like an encyclopedia, and you'll be fine.
-Jett
H
Harvey Gerst
New member
Two stories:
A scorpion, being a very poor swimmer, asked a turtle to carry him on his back across a river. "Are you mad?" exclaimed the turtle. "You'll sting me while I'm swimming and I'll drown."
"My dear turtle," laughed the scorpion, "if I were to sting you, you would drown, and I would go down with you. Now where is the logic in that?"
"You're right!" cried the turtle. "Hop on!" The scorpion climbed aboard and halfway across the river gave the turtle a mighty sting. As they both sank to the bottom, the turtle resignedly asks:
"Why did you sting me when you knew you would die as well?"
"I can't help it," the drowning scorpion sadly replied. "It's my nature."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A young girl finds a snake that pleads with her to place it in her winter coat, otherwise the snake will freeze. The girl goes "No you'll bite me if I do". The snake convinces the girl that if he bit her, he would die as well. The girl eventually puts the snake in her jacket to keep it warm and she continues on her walk. Then she feels a sharp pain in her side, the snake drops out and begins to slither away. The girl says "Why? I took care of you, and now we'll both die". The snake simply replies "You knew what I was when you found me".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a very upsetting thread to me. Alan is both the snake and scorpion in the above parables, but he is not the bad guy some of you try to portray him as. Does he try to push his stuff here, or make sure it appears in a favorable light? Of course. "It's in my nature" and "You knew what I was when you found me".
At the same time, he loves music, he loves recording, and he's proud of his new mics. When you ask him questions that might be a conflict of interest for him, you should already know which side of the issue he will be on.
The biggest thing I've found on the Internet is the amazing amount of information out there. More than enough information to make intelligent buying decisions about a lot of equipment. But sometimes, you'll see people get into personality flame wars.
That's the part that really upsets me. It solves nothing, and nothing is resolved. I've been in a few myself. Lord Valve (on another newsgroup) holds me responsible for every ill that has ever befallen the guitar amplifier industry and my Acoustic Control amplifier designs are despised by him (and I'm using "despised" accurately).
Another guy hates every JBL speaker I ever designed and he takes every chance he gets to trash me personally. This was in two different newsgroups, and I finally just gave up and stopped posting to those two groups. While I love helping people and trying to share what I've learned over the years, it makes me a little sad to see people bickering over small differences of opinion, or a poster's writing style.
Having Alan here is an asset. You're getting to talk to the manufacturer one on one, he knows you and he's listening to you, you're getting preferential treatment if you have a problem with his products, and you're learning about new products long before they hit the market. What's the downside? A little puffery on Alan's part? Big deal. "He can't help it, it's in his nature".
Please stop this needless bickering, we can't afford to lose people like Alan, Tom Cram, and others who can contribute so much inside information.
A scorpion, being a very poor swimmer, asked a turtle to carry him on his back across a river. "Are you mad?" exclaimed the turtle. "You'll sting me while I'm swimming and I'll drown."
"My dear turtle," laughed the scorpion, "if I were to sting you, you would drown, and I would go down with you. Now where is the logic in that?"
"You're right!" cried the turtle. "Hop on!" The scorpion climbed aboard and halfway across the river gave the turtle a mighty sting. As they both sank to the bottom, the turtle resignedly asks:
"Why did you sting me when you knew you would die as well?"
"I can't help it," the drowning scorpion sadly replied. "It's my nature."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A young girl finds a snake that pleads with her to place it in her winter coat, otherwise the snake will freeze. The girl goes "No you'll bite me if I do". The snake convinces the girl that if he bit her, he would die as well. The girl eventually puts the snake in her jacket to keep it warm and she continues on her walk. Then she feels a sharp pain in her side, the snake drops out and begins to slither away. The girl says "Why? I took care of you, and now we'll both die". The snake simply replies "You knew what I was when you found me".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a very upsetting thread to me. Alan is both the snake and scorpion in the above parables, but he is not the bad guy some of you try to portray him as. Does he try to push his stuff here, or make sure it appears in a favorable light? Of course. "It's in my nature" and "You knew what I was when you found me".
At the same time, he loves music, he loves recording, and he's proud of his new mics. When you ask him questions that might be a conflict of interest for him, you should already know which side of the issue he will be on.
The biggest thing I've found on the Internet is the amazing amount of information out there. More than enough information to make intelligent buying decisions about a lot of equipment. But sometimes, you'll see people get into personality flame wars.
That's the part that really upsets me. It solves nothing, and nothing is resolved. I've been in a few myself. Lord Valve (on another newsgroup) holds me responsible for every ill that has ever befallen the guitar amplifier industry and my Acoustic Control amplifier designs are despised by him (and I'm using "despised" accurately).
Another guy hates every JBL speaker I ever designed and he takes every chance he gets to trash me personally. This was in two different newsgroups, and I finally just gave up and stopped posting to those two groups. While I love helping people and trying to share what I've learned over the years, it makes me a little sad to see people bickering over small differences of opinion, or a poster's writing style.
Having Alan here is an asset. You're getting to talk to the manufacturer one on one, he knows you and he's listening to you, you're getting preferential treatment if you have a problem with his products, and you're learning about new products long before they hit the market. What's the downside? A little puffery on Alan's part? Big deal. "He can't help it, it's in his nature".
Please stop this needless bickering, we can't afford to lose people like Alan, Tom Cram, and others who can contribute so much inside information.
C
CarmenC
New member
Harvey....
Well said.
Please know that you are held in high regard here. Please also try to remember that for every poster here there are probably 10 lurkers whom you, Alan, Tom Cram, Tubedude and others help every time you post.
Sleep well tonight knowing your help is appreciated far more than you could ever know.
Thanx,
Carmen
Well said.
Please know that you are held in high regard here. Please also try to remember that for every poster here there are probably 10 lurkers whom you, Alan, Tom Cram, Tubedude and others help every time you post.
Sleep well tonight knowing your help is appreciated far more than you could ever know.
Thanx,
Carmen
B
Bodhisan
Hillbilly
...I think Harvey just proved I'm right. I love being right.
alanhyatt
PMI Audio Group
So what happened to the "I hate Alan Hyatt" fan club. I was counting my money and had the membership cards all printed out. damm.... 
I hear what all of you are saying, but I have never hid what I am, or my NY attitude. Do I listen to you...you bet. Most of you asked for a pad on the C1. Well, its here, so you all got what you wanted. Me, I hate pads...I think they are for woosey's and not needed on a mic...but just like Toyota, you asked for it...you got it.
Yes, I promote my mics, but do not compare them. If I think a mic is better than another, I will tell you despite it being my mic, or someone elses. You can't seriously think I only use my mics!
I own about 140 mics now in my personal collection, and no, 139 of them are not Studio Projects. Like Harvey, I use all my mics. I record and engineer projects as much as I can as long as I have the time, and yes, even if I did not have Studio Projects, I would be here. I did not even know about bbb's until 8 or 10 months ago.
A friend told me about rec.audio. pro, I got on to that and as soon as I did, me and Fletcher went round and round like Ali and Frasier, but we became freinds. He told me about all the other bbs's, so I started to check them out.
I am not much of a computer guy. I still record the old fashion way using a console and a tape machine, although I do use digital machines when called for by the client, but not Pro Tools, and I have been working with Cubase recently for sequencing only.
I do make many other posts on this and other groups that never mention Studio Projects. I also distribute Joemeek, Trident-MTA, Toft Audio Designs, and a new addition called the Groove-Doctors. So you know, I do not design Joemeek, Trident-MTA or The Groove-Doctors, and I do not own them. I just distribute them, but I do own Studio Projects and Toft Audio Designs, although most of the Toft is designed by Malcolm Toft, but I have the last word.
I do answer posts on all these products as well, which is how this all started by addressing a Joemeek VC3Q post. I felt his noise was a result of his mic. It (2001) uses an innexpensive transformer, and he would be better off using an FET mic for the Meek. So I steered him to the C1, a FET mic. Could he use a V67...sure, but you have to be F#@$ing kidding me right...me suggesting that!!! Good, bad or indifferent, I make no bones about what I suggest or where my loayalty is, but I have never asked any of you take my opinions as you're last word. You all have ears and hopefully you use them. They will tell you what you like...not me!
Remember, I am here on this group with all of you. I do not ask you to buy my mics, I do not force them down your throats, and I do not compare them to other mics, but I am here, I listen, I help and I don't see any other mic manufacture here to help or assist you, so that should be Brownie points for me. I could say screw it and watch TV, or take on more studio time. You all know I am here a good deal of the time just like Harvey is.
So, agree with me, or don't. That's the beauty of America, but for me Slamming is not something I think I do. If it was, I would post and never reply, so hopefully we can move on with you all knowing what I am about.
Now, who wants to join the club!...
Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group
I hear what all of you are saying, but I have never hid what I am, or my NY attitude. Do I listen to you...you bet. Most of you asked for a pad on the C1. Well, its here, so you all got what you wanted. Me, I hate pads...I think they are for woosey's and not needed on a mic...but just like Toyota, you asked for it...you got it.
Yes, I promote my mics, but do not compare them. If I think a mic is better than another, I will tell you despite it being my mic, or someone elses. You can't seriously think I only use my mics!
I own about 140 mics now in my personal collection, and no, 139 of them are not Studio Projects. Like Harvey, I use all my mics. I record and engineer projects as much as I can as long as I have the time, and yes, even if I did not have Studio Projects, I would be here. I did not even know about bbb's until 8 or 10 months ago.
A friend told me about rec.audio. pro, I got on to that and as soon as I did, me and Fletcher went round and round like Ali and Frasier, but we became freinds. He told me about all the other bbs's, so I started to check them out.
I am not much of a computer guy. I still record the old fashion way using a console and a tape machine, although I do use digital machines when called for by the client, but not Pro Tools, and I have been working with Cubase recently for sequencing only.
I do make many other posts on this and other groups that never mention Studio Projects. I also distribute Joemeek, Trident-MTA, Toft Audio Designs, and a new addition called the Groove-Doctors. So you know, I do not design Joemeek, Trident-MTA or The Groove-Doctors, and I do not own them. I just distribute them, but I do own Studio Projects and Toft Audio Designs, although most of the Toft is designed by Malcolm Toft, but I have the last word.
I do answer posts on all these products as well, which is how this all started by addressing a Joemeek VC3Q post. I felt his noise was a result of his mic. It (2001) uses an innexpensive transformer, and he would be better off using an FET mic for the Meek. So I steered him to the C1, a FET mic. Could he use a V67...sure, but you have to be F#@$ing kidding me right...me suggesting that!!! Good, bad or indifferent, I make no bones about what I suggest or where my loayalty is, but I have never asked any of you take my opinions as you're last word. You all have ears and hopefully you use them. They will tell you what you like...not me!
Remember, I am here on this group with all of you. I do not ask you to buy my mics, I do not force them down your throats, and I do not compare them to other mics, but I am here, I listen, I help and I don't see any other mic manufacture here to help or assist you, so that should be Brownie points for me. I could say screw it and watch TV, or take on more studio time. You all know I am here a good deal of the time just like Harvey is.
So, agree with me, or don't. That's the beauty of America, but for me Slamming is not something I think I do. If it was, I would post and never reply, so hopefully we can move on with you all knowing what I am about.
Now, who wants to join the club!...
Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group
B
Bodhisan
Hillbilly
...my apologies all...on reflection I feel like a dip using Harvey's reply as a springboard for tooting my horn; I hate horn tooters.
Bodhisan
Bodhisan
C
CarmenC
New member
Bodhisan.........
You were right.
C
You were right.
C
H
Harvey Gerst
New member
Great post, Alan. If anybody thinks I was trashing Alan in those two parables, think again. He is who he is, and I'm glad to be able to call him a good friend (even if he can't spell "friend" right).
I disagree with the people who compare the C1 to the Neumann U87, but if I were in Alan's shoes, I'd be hitting people over the head with that story every chance I got. Nah, the C1 doesn't sound like a U87 to me, but the C1 is a damn good mic, and is more useful to me than a U87 would be, except for the recognition and prestige factor the U87 has going for it. One thing is for sure, the Studio Projects line "looks" expensive, and that's important too (especially if you own a commercial studio).
I disagree with the people who compare the C1 to the Neumann U87, but if I were in Alan's shoes, I'd be hitting people over the head with that story every chance I got. Nah, the C1 doesn't sound like a U87 to me, but the C1 is a damn good mic, and is more useful to me than a U87 would be, except for the recognition and prestige factor the U87 has going for it. One thing is for sure, the Studio Projects line "looks" expensive, and that's important too (especially if you own a commercial studio).
Slackmaster2K
Gone
This thread is a perfect example of why this forum, aside from a few threads, is and always has been the most useless forum on the BBS. A shame to, since in theory it's the most important.
Slackmaster 2000
Slackmaster 2000
H
Harvey Gerst
New member
Slackmaster,Slackmaster2K said:
Hopefully, those "few threads" are worth keeping this forum alive. I've noticed other forums on the Internet where people have refered to this mic forum as being valuable to them. We have threads here being privately logged and printed out for reference, stored on other servers, and even translated into other languages. I don't think it's "the most useless forum on the BBS", but that's just my opinion.
J
jet-rocker
New member
Too me this is the most useful forum.
-Jett
-Jett
Slackmaster2K
Gone
I knew I'd getcha Harvey!
The few good threads are indeed enough to keep this forum alive. The size/polar pattern thread is a great example.
I still don't buy half the shit that's said in this forum though. But of course I can't get into it without starting another flame war.
Perhaps "useless" was a poor term. Maybe "annoying" or at times "dangerous" or "misleading". Too bad there's no way to weed the good shit from the bad shit. And maybe the bad shit is good for us after all...
Slackmaster 2000
The few good threads are indeed enough to keep this forum alive. The size/polar pattern thread is a great example.
I still don't buy half the shit that's said in this forum though. But of course I can't get into it without starting another flame war.
Perhaps "useless" was a poor term. Maybe "annoying" or at times "dangerous" or "misleading". Too bad there's no way to weed the good shit from the bad shit. And maybe the bad shit is good for us after all...
Slackmaster 2000
J
jet-rocker
New member
Just use common sense Slack.
If you are really from Montana, you should be equipped with a decent supply.
-Jett
If you are really from Montana, you should be equipped with a decent supply.
-Jett
Slackmaster2K
Gone
I am capable at times of using common sense. Therefore, I officially change my opinion from "useless" to "irritating".
Slackmaster 2000
Slackmaster 2000
H
Harvey Gerst
New member
I agree completely about the "dangerous" or "misleading" part. That's one of the reasons I post here - people just starting out may have (or be giving out) "dangerous" or "misleading" information, simply due to their enthusiasm, lack of experience, or the excitement of buying their first "pro" product. I see it so often everywhere on the net (even on rec.audio.pro), and it still bothers me.Slackmaster2K said:
When all you're used to hearing is an old beat-up Radio Shack ball mic, it's pretty startling to hear a real condenser mic, but many people can get misled by the hyped high end on some of the low cost mics out there. They think it's "detail" and "clarity" instead of what it really is - a harsh, peaky top end.
And the last thing someone (that just spent $200 to $800 on a mic) wants to hear is that "Your mic sucks, sorry". Unless you're really used to hearing mics for a living, it takes quite a while to hear the subtle differences in mics. It also takes having some basis for comparison before you go off, shouting, "This mic RULZ!".
Actually, I'm kinda excited by this new "How to shop for a microphone" thread that we just started here. It's going to give me a great opportunity to teach people how to listen for some of the subtle differences between mics, and not just buy the brightest or the loudest mic in the batch.
W
Wallycleaver
New member
I'm just pissed at the whole deal. When I quoted Alan's posts earlier in this thread, he mentioned that "the C1 is significantly better than the 2001" What?!? That's a direct insult to another company PERIOD! That's just plain rude and wrong. Many people here don't have many resorces available to them to test products and come here for advice on what work and what doesn't. Of course Alan will say that his mic is better. That's not good info. Perhaps his mic is better (although I will never touch one to even find out) but his wallet will suffer if he says that they are similar, and that's what it's all about for him here IMHO.Could you hear me say, "Hi my name is Chris and I work for Wally Cleaver mics, my mics aren't quite as good as the C1" NO! Not at all. I've come here to learn more and help anyway that I can. So if I can be any help to anyone drop me an e-mail cause I don't want to be a part of this any more.