Will a Joe meek pre cut down noise from a marshall mic?

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Alan said that his "C1 is better than the Marshall 2001". I agree. The Marshall V67G is also "better than the 2001". Even though the V67G has basically the same electronics and capsule as the 2001.

Alan wasn't dissing the entire Marshall line. In most people's opinion, the C1 is "better than the 2001" - it's also way more expensive.
 
out of curiosity, why is the MXL2001p such a bad mic? Is the freq. response all over the place, or are we just talking <dB or so, at certain freqs, that give the mic uncomplimentary characteristics? I would presume it is built as well as the V67. Is this mic useless for ANY serious semi-pro application? It seems to get a lot of bashing, and truthfully, I thought the Rode NT1 was in the same ballpark, but has seemed to escape the critisizm...albeit fallen out of many discussions too.
 
mixmkr said:
out of curiosity, why is the MXL2001p such a bad mic? Is the freq. response all over the place, or are we just talking <dB or so, at certain freqs, that give the mic uncomplimentary characteristics? I would presume it is built as well as the V67. Is this mic useless for ANY serious semi-pro application? It seems to get a lot of bashing, and truthfully, I thought the Rode NT1 was in the same ballpark, but has seemed to escape the critisizm...albeit fallen out of many discussions too.
I think the NT1 IS in that ball park, absolutely. I didn't like the 2001 when I tested it about 11 months ago. For the record, here's what I said about all the Marshall mics (and a few others) in January:

Ok, Alex and I finally got around to finally listening to all the mics in the Marshall line. None of the testing was done formally, and it's all pretty subjective, but in talking to Brent Casey at Marshall, he pretty well confirmed what I heard, so I think my comments will be of some use to people here.

Let me also add that Brent is NOT just buying Chinese mics as they roll off the assembly line. He is working on specing the actual diaphragms materials, the porting, new designs, and he's making a really great effort to keep the line consistant. He impressed the hell out of me with his passion about mics (about the same kind of passion about products that people like Taylor Johnson, Karl Winkler, Stephen Paul, and Brad Lunde have). I honestly believe that Brent Casey is 100% committed to making the Marshall line a serious contender in the mic market.

All the mics looked well made, and we had no problems with any of them, or the supplied shock mounts. Noise levels weren't a problem with any of the mics, although we didn't do any testing with really quiet instruments.

One of my concerns was consistancy from unit to unit. After we got the first batch, I had Brent send some extra units (off the shelf) so I could actually compare two units for possible differences. I'm happy to report that all the units I received were consistant and would do fine as stereo pairs.

All tests were done thru a Great River MP-2, with the microphone under test polarity reversed and nulled (to match initial levels), then normalled to do the actual comparison. We used the level controls on the GR to note differences in gain.

While I listened to the mics in the studio using headphones, Alex listened in the control room, using our main speakers (wall-mounted JBL-4311Bs, with a Cerwin Vega subwoofer). We compared notes and in almost every case, Alex and I agreed completely on the results (so we didn't hafta trust my "rock-n-roll shot ears").

The units we listened to included:

1 Marshall MXL "The Fox" hand-held dynamic.
1 Marshall MXL-1000 hand-held condensor
2 Marshall MXL-600 small condensor mics
2 Marshall MXL-603 small condensor mics
1 Marshall MXL-2001 large condensor mic
2 Marshall MXL-2003 large condensor mics
1 Marshall MXL-V67 large condensor mic
2 Marshall MXL-V77 tube large condensor mics

Comparison mics included:

1 Neumann TLM-103
2 matched Oktava MC012s w/cardioid capsules
1 Lomo M3 large condensor mic on MC012 body
1 Shure SM-7 dynamic
1 Nady SCM-1000 multi-pattern condensor

The results:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The mics we didn't like:

Marshall MXL-2001 $130?? Sorry, I can't find the MSRP right now. Harsh top end, thin bottom, compared to the TLM-103. It was a little warmer than the Nady SCM-1000, but the Nady had a smoother top end. The 2001 is everything that I don't like about all the really inexpensive large diaphragm condensor mics that I've listened to over the years, including the AKG C3000, the Oktava 219, the Rode NT1, and some of the early AT low cost units.

Marshall MXL-600 $270 Veiled top end and exaggerated low-mid, compared to the Oktava MC-012. About 1 dB lower output than the Oktava. It just sounded very dull and lifeless. Very easy to bottom out as well.

The mics we did like:

Marshall MXL-2003 $399 I thought the 2003 sounded pretty smooth overall. Alex thought it had a little less bottom than the 103, but a little more hi mids and top end than a 103. The Nady had a little less bottom. Alex felt it was similar to the AKG C3000, but it sounded smoother than a C3000, to me anyway.

(The lack of proximity effect that I noted in an earlier report about the 2003, was due to me accidently hitting the bass rolloff switch while I was putting it in its shock mount. When I noticed normal proximity effect with a second unit, I discovered my screwup.)

Marshall MXL-603 $99 This was a flat-out winner, folks. Almost identical to the MC012 in sound, with a wide cardioid pattern, almost approaching omni. We used them as drum overhead mics, and they did a great job. The diaphragms are easy to bottom out on voice, but with a pop filter (and positioned above the singer's mouth), they wouldn't be bad as a vocal mic on some singers, and they'd probably do fine on acoustic guitar, and many other instruments. They were also a perfect match to the Oktava MC012 - they sounded nearly identical.

Marshall MXL 1000 $99 This was the hand-held condensor mic that Marshall was pushing as a KM-105. It totally sucked as a hand-held vocal mic. Brent Casey suggested I try it without the end ball, and I discovered it was basically the 603 in a Shure-type body. Without the ball end fucking up the sound, it was identical in sound to the 603.

Marshall MXL-V77 $600 This is the top of the line Marshall tube mic, and it's very similar to the TLM-103 in sound (with a little more proximity effect). It's a very nice tube mic, especially at the price. There was a 1 dB difference in the level between the two V77s we tested, but the sound was identical.

Marshall MXL-V67 $270 This was the other flat-out winner, both in the looks, and sound categories. It's the green-bodied, gold topped Bejing 797 copy of a C12, and it looks like it costs around $2500. Lots of proximity effect (even more than my RCA ribbon mics) and about 1.5 dB more bottom than the TLM-103, with a similar top end to the TLM-103. This is a real winner for some male vocals, especially singers that make use of the proximity effect. It compared very favorably with the LOMO M3 head for that "bigger than life" sound. If you wanna make your studio "look" more expensive than it really is, get the V67. And it just happens to sound great, too.

The studio wound up buying the Marshall MXL-V67, the Marshall MXL-603s, and the Marshall MXL-1000 (as an extra 603). I would't hesitate to buy the 2003s or the V77 as well, if we could afford them (which we can't, at the moment).

Well, that's the results - it wasn't a fancy test, and YMMV, but overall, I think it might be helpful to some people, especially if you're a "bottom feeder" studio as we are. As I mentioned earlier, Brent said that our tests pretty much agreed with his findings, and that at least confirmed that we were all hearing pretty much the same things.
 
An open response to Wally,

If you know me, you would know my post did not diss the Marshall mic. Harvey and others who know me, know this. Yes, I said the C1 is better than the 2001, but that does not mean Marshall is shit. I never said Marshall is shit, what I did say was the C1 is better than the 2001...and it is.

I can also say the Brauner Velvet is a better mic than the V67 or the C1, by how much I would love to debate... :D I can also say Lexicon reverbs are better than DOD, and a Mercedes is better than a Ford...so what. Who does that hurt, and why does that make me out a slammer? Yes, I own Studio Projects, but I have a right to my say.

Like all of you, I have opinions as well. I don't just think of myself as a poster to only push my mics. Oh yeah, I push when I can because that is what I do and everyone knows that, but when I say a C1 is better than a 2001, that is nothing that everybody does not know and it is not out of disrespect for Marshall.

The 2001 is a $99.00 mic, and for $99.00 its not horrible, but it is not the C1 or the V67. The SSL9000 I worked on a few weeks ago is better than my Sony DMXR-100. Does that mean my Sony DMXR-100 is shit...hell no!

Instead of blasting me with here goes the spammer again, why don't you email me off this group, or on this group and ask me point blank..."Alan, did you mean to say the 2001 was shit"? I would have said, no I do not, and I would have preceeded to tell you and others my meaning, but I am not a spammer.

Maybe you're a good guy, but I am also a good guy, but what do you expect me to do when I suggest something to someone, and if it is not favorable to what you think, you blast me. If you blast me like Harvey says, I become the snake and I bite back.

I would understand you blasting me if I came right out and said something nasty to you for no reason, but I did not even address you on that post, so from my view you came out and blasted me for helping someone else regardless of my being right or wrong. I think the group has spoke on this, and taking sides of who was right or wrong does not matter and is not the issue. The issue is between you and me.

All I can ask is before you decide to blast me, ask me for clarification, because I think I offer good advice as well. I am a very experienced user and I am opinionated. I think many people appreciate my direct approach, and I am sure some don't. Its fine by me that you choose never to own one of my mics. You're not the only one I have pissed off, and have made that claim. That alone should tell you something.

You could have simply replied in the post, and said "Alan, in you're last post you said the C1 is better than the 2001. Would you please clarify this because to me it sounds like you're saying Marshall sucks.

If you did this, you would have received a nice response and all this would not have happened. What more can I ask? So I raise the peace flag...the rest is up to you. I am sure you and I will never be friends, but we can be civil.

Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group
 
So Alan, what did you and Fletcher (and Mixerman...among others) go round and round about?
 
alan for the record

Alan I think your post was totally blow out of proportion. I came here looking for advice and received riddicule. one of the few people who tried to help me was you. for the record I didn't take your advice as spam. I took it as someone taking time to inform me about condenser mic's. In my mind anything elthing else is just some thinking too much. this is one of the biggest problems with this bbs. Just look at all the flamings in the microphone section. People seem to grow 10 ft long dicks when they don't have to actually worry about getting a fat lip. I just wanted to thank you for your advice. I think I'm going to send back the mxl 2001 and hold out till January. thanx
 
Ametth,

It was a long time ago, but I think it was about a Joemeek unit, then it led to a statement that I made on rec.audio, when I said you can get pretty much the same professional results out of a good low cost mic and preamp as you could a really expensive one, as long as the recording was done properly.

That brought out a ton of curse words from Fletcher and others, but this has been proved many times already. It has been proved again by the post of the mp3 Imagine did. It is on this group of a female singer, a killer tune, and an excellent recording. In either case, I respect Fletcher, and we have become friends.

Musix,

You are welcome. I understand how these things work. I answered you truthfully and later you will find my advice was correct. I know you did not take my advice as spam. You had nothing to do with it; it is just the way these bbs works. Don't give up on them. Despite all the trouble I have had, I am still here, so hang in there, as you can learn from many on this group.

Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group
 
I said you can get pretty much the same professional results out of a good low cost mic and preamp as you could a really expensive one, as long as the recording was done properly.
. It has been proved again by the post of the mp3 Imagine did

Hmmm...Unless my memory's screwing with me (hey, I just woke up) Imagine used an Avalon 737 preamp for his C1...Not exactly a "low cost preamp";)
 
WOW

A guy walks away from his computer for a couple of days to watch some football and comes back to see this.....

Harvey, you are right on all fronts I think, I can't imagine anyone who owns a company recommending a competitors product over their own if they know (as we all do that) their product is better.

As a "newbie' (god I hate that word, I ve been a professional musician since I was 14 which is well more than half of my life, but enough about me), I find the microphone forum the MOST informative. I know if I like a damn Pod or not, and I don't need to talk about it. ( no offense guitar guys... really)

Alan, Please - stay as New York as possible , (like you could help it) I have found your posts to be helpful,and have never felt like you were pushing anything on me ( or others really, you are just weighing in on your area of the marketplace)

So let's move on already and fight about something really important like

"Who will ever beat the Steelers again this year!!!"

Raiders, 49ers, Bears, Packers, and Rams fans- Bring it! :D


hehehehe ;)

nP



(correction, I just made junior member. YEE HAW! Still feel like a newbie compared to Harvey though ;) )
 
Last edited:
db51,

You are correct, the Avalon is not a cheap mic pre. This why I did the Studio Projects Sessions Disc. It is all our mics on five different preamps, they are:

Focusrite Red 1: Solid State Mic Pre with Transformer
Neve 1089: Solid State Mic Pre/Transformer, (same as 1073)
Modified V72: Tube Mic Pre/Transformer, modified for variable gain
Trident A Range: Solid State Mic Pre with Transformer, reissue
JoeMeek VC1QCS: Solid State Mic Pre with Compressor

There are two cuts, one with music and one all solo. email me off the link for the disc and I will send it to you. All you have to do is download the file on the follwing link for the key code, so you know what cut is what mic with what preamp. The link is on the disc we send anyway. I still stand by what I said!

The link is: http://www.studioprojectsusa.com/spnews.html


nezpierce

I think it is Rams all the way...but you never know!


Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group
 
:)))))))))))))))))))

:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
lots of assholes here lol! I think there should be a separate Asshole Forum for dissing and whateva.
 
News flash! Neumann and Marshall are teaming up to offer the
"I hate Alan Hyatt (fan?) club" for only $199.99!! That's over a $50
savings-operators are standing by. If you join in the next 10 minutes
you'll also get a free poster/cd of Britney Spears "testing" each mike
(like we care how she SOUNDS). Can you better it Alan?

In the spirit of the holiday season, let's just forgive and (mostly) forget!
The people, like Wally and Alan, on both sides of this issue are those who
I respect for their respective contributions to this bbs, and hope they
continue to do so.

P.S. How are about a forum called "Harvey and (special guest) Go To
The Manufacturers" ala Roger Ebert ?
Alan could be the first guest......
Fletcher the second.......
etc.
 
man, this takes the cake. someone asks questions about joe meek and wants to know where to get a c-1. and people give alan a bunch of shit about replying. I am fairly new to this site, and i have learned alot just reading posts. i bought a c-1 and a joe meek british channel and my recordings have improved 100%. I for one am DAMN glad that alan hangs around and reads posts concerning his products. Thats convieniance and service in my book. Plus...i think he ought to push his products as they are excellent and affordable. So, i guess you can put me down as agreeing with the "asshole" tag.
 
Jimistone,

Thanks!

Chess,

I got a better deal. We clone the Neumann TL103, put it in a silver case, stuff it in a cardboard box. Build it real good so it lasts, make the shock mount an option, so we just supply a mic clip. We can do test's, but not with Spears...unless she is holding the mic between her...well, you know what I mean :D

Anyway, we can make it spec the same or better than the 103 and sell it for $79.00 in the stores...the problem is, what do we call it? I GOT IT!!!! We can call it the B1 :cool:

Hey, we can even do a couple more models or a whole series if you want. All models come complete with membership cards to the I hate Alan Hyatt Fan Club, but the factory tour is to pricey. Do you know how much it costs to go to Beijing? :D

I don't like the sound of Neuman and Marshall teaming up...so I will have to do something to beat that. Give me a few weeks, and I may have a surprise for you. ;)

regards,

Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group
 
Anyway, we can make it spec the same or better than the 103 and sell it for $79.00 in the stores...the problem is, what do we call it? I GOT IT!!!! We can call it the B1

ha ha! Just like you would like to call a C1 an U87 ey?
:D

I'll never find out if it sounds close to a TLM103, cause where I live the price of a C1 is roughly that of a TLM103...So if I had the money, I'd just go with the Neumann. Logic ey?
 
musix, I had some more time to think about how you could improve your signal chain, other than my kidding around.
You may want to tell the place you were getting the Marshall
mike to credit you for the purchase of a better microphone.
Whether that means a better mike in the Marshall, Studio Projects, or any other product line is obviously up to you.
I've ditched two mikes that weren't the best for me, in exchange
for better-AKG C1000S was dropped for Audio-Technica 3527
omni (discontinued), and Rode NT1 for Studio Projects C1.

P.S. I also had a Joe Meek VC3Q, and really liked it, especially
the EQ section. I sold it recently to a young musician to
help him get started in making good demos for his band.
You should have a lot of fun with it!
 
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