Why my Zoom Q8 and Studio Projects B3 mics aren't capturing it, a comparison...

Winfred

Member
Hi!

I have a very nice classical guitar with cedar top and rosewood back and sides, sounds very nice, deep and rich. I'm trying to post my debut on YouTube, but I'm wondering what's wrong. My Studio Projects B3 large diaphragm condenser mics are on omni to prevent phase problems, just like I had them set when I recorded acoustic piano 17 yrs ago. I have nice thick XLR cables, same I used before, but different this time, recording with the Zoom q8 that is highly rated... Years ago with the B3's I captured the sounds of my piano very nicely and with a small M-Box by Digidesign digitizer, nothing extremely high quality, but it recorded beautifully. Without touring I sold almost 4,000 CD's. I received a lot of compliments for the 2 solo piano albums I recorded.

I now have 2 videos of guitar and vocals for comparison, one of me presently, and another of a girl who achieved in home recording very nice quality. She is a phenomenal talent, but she doesn't answer comments very often and never posts what equipment she uses. I'm still wondering why the rich tone and clarity of recording she has. One thing I think is her Taylor guitar plugs in. My Takamine no.10 classical guitar from 1986 just bought a month ago sounds directly very nice, deep and rich tone, but it doesn't plug in. I mic it with one of the B3's and mic my voice with the other. My video is 4:34 and hers is around 3:00. I hope you have time to listen. Let me know what I might be doing wrong. Sorry as I need to figure out how to attache my own video that for over 2 hrs I think was uploading, only the problem is the webhost will delete it after one hour of inactivity and it's now showing up. The progress circle of dots was active and stopped so I assume that means it uploaded to this site, right?

Kindest Regards,
Winfred
 

gecko zzed

Grumpy Mod
I can't see any uploaded videos. The upload may not have worked. You might try loading to youtube, then linking that to here.

However I can offer some thoughts on why there may be differences in quality:

1 the rooms in which the recordings were made may have different acoustic properties
2 the placement of microphone/s may have an impact
3 the character of the guitars may differ. You don't mention whether she has nylon or steel strings on her Taylor
4 though the Taylor can be plugged in, you can switch between transducer and internal microphone. She could use either or a combination of both.
5 there may be different levels of post production undertaken.
 

keith.rogers

Bobby'); DROP TABLE USER
....
I now have 2 videos of guitar and vocals for comparison, one of me presently, and another of a girl who achieved in home recording very nice quality. She is a phenomenal talent, but she doesn't answer comments very often and never posts what equipment she uses. I'm still wondering why the rich tone and clarity of recording she has. One thing I think is her Taylor guitar plugs in. My Takamine no.10 classical guitar from 1986 just bought a month ago sounds directly very nice, deep and rich tone, but it doesn't plug in. I mic it with one of the B3's and mic my voice with the other. My video is 4:34 and hers is around 3:00. I hope you have time to listen. Let me know what I might be doing wrong. Sorry as I need to figure out how to attache my own video that for over 2 hrs I think was uploading, only the problem is the webhost will delete it after one hour of inactivity and it's now showing up. The progress circle of dots was active and stopped so I assume that means it uploaded to this site, right? ...
First, it would take a lot less time to upload just the audio of your guitar/playing, and perhaps a "still" (maybe screenshot from the video) *if* it shows your recording setup - mic placement, primarily.

But, if you want to display a video, I'd suggest uploading it to YouTube, setting the access to "Unlisted" and then simply posting the "Share" link from there. An Unlisted video will only be visible to those that have the link. If you can't upload to YouTube, the video file may be too large, so, again, just do an audio file for the folks here. If the audio is non-lossy, put it in Dropbox, Google Drive, or your favorite cloud storage, and post that link. An MP3 file can be attached. If that is too large, just trim it down - we don't need to hear more than a minute or so, probably.

Describing all of your equipment, recording method, mixing steps (plugins, EQ, et al), mic placement and room size and any treatment, all are things of relevance.

Generally, the plugged in aspect of a guitar is not going to sound very acoustic, though there are some setups and players that have success with it. Probably more often it is mixed with a mic'd track, but is really not necessary (IMO) unless there's a specific kind of quality in the pickup you want, or the recording space prevents good microphone capture.
 

Winfred

Member
I can't see any uploaded videos. The upload may not have worked. You might try loading to youtube, then linking that to here.

However I can offer some thoughts on why there may be differences in quality:

1 the rooms in which the recordings were made may have different acoustic properties
2 the placement of microphone/s may have an impact
3 the character of the guitars may differ. You don't mention whether she has nylon or steel strings on her Taylor
4 though the Taylor can be plugged in, you can switch between transducer and internal microphone. She could use either or a combination of both.
5 there may be different levels of post production undertaken.

Hi Gecko zzed, and Keith!

Again you are so helpful! Thanks for responding. I signed up for one hour at a local recording studio that charges $35 an hour, but I just sprained my left wrist badly and doing home medical care ha! It's painful to even type this, but I feel I must keep moving forward no matter what, plus trying to heal. I commute by bicycle but the sprain is so bad I must walk. I had to cancel my studio appt. I feel I must try recording in a studio just to see if my problem is my Studio Projects mic.

The B3 worked very nice 17 yrs ago with my solo acoustic piano albums, but something seems not right with the quality recording my acoustic guitar. I have the filter set at that straight horizontal line symbol which I think means I'm not filtering at all, right? I'm recording in a phenomenally quiet basement room of the high-rise apt bldg I live in. I found an amazing deal on a used AKG C214 mic for $89. I find many very good comments about the 212C, plus being made in Austria etc., and good with acoustic guitars. I'm happy with the B3 and my vocals, but not with my very nice sounding Takamine classical guitar. I think I can attach my Google Drive recording sample I hope you can hear. To send an excerpt, as Kevin mentions here... well... I don't know how to do that and would probably have to use my free Reaper I still have... but since the video is stored at Google Drive I think I can send the link to that and include the link to that girl's recording on YouTube for comparison.

The other thing is, if the 212C is a good choice, I don't know why the C214 is so reduced in price and wondering if it could have problems. I think AKG is nice quality. I think the local studio might record my nylon string guitar better than my Studio Projects B3 with my Zoom Q8. I feel not all that great recording in a studio as really the reason I dug deep and spent a lot was so I could home record with good quality. I uploaded my video to Google Drive. Google's Gmail will not let you attach larger than 25MB and I think my video is 1.1GB. It is now stored at Google Drive.

Google's Gmail will not let you attach larger than 25MB and I think my video is 1.1GB. Just click on the YouTube address below and I think it takes you right to my video because I clicked for it to be a general "share" but only privately as it's not posted public until I maybe replace it.

YouTube

This is the link to YouTube and that girl's video.

YouTube

By hearing her sound quality you can see what I mean about how my sound quality is with my guitar. Also the AKG C214 is in Australia. Do you know if there's a big fee for items purchased coming into the US? Do I pay a big tax of some kind, a "tariff"? Maybe FedEx is a lot from there. (?)
With my B3 I'm willing to go with my voice quality, but not the guitar. Any advice is much appreciated! I hope my link to my video at Google Drive works, but not sure how to test it.

Kindest Regards,
Winfred
 
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Winfred

Member
First, it would take a lot less time to upload just the audio of your guitar/playing, and perhaps a "still" (maybe screenshot from the video) *if* it shows your recording setup - mic placement, primarily.

But, if you want to display a video, I'd suggest uploading it to YouTube, setting the access to "Unlisted" and then simply posting the "Share" link from there. An Unlisted video will only be visible to those that have the link. If you can't upload to YouTube, the video file may be too large, so, again, just do an audio file for the folks here. If the audio is non-lossy, put it in Dropbox, Google Drive, or your favorite cloud storage, and post that link. An MP3 file can be attached. If that is too large, just trim it down - we don't need to hear more than a minute or so, probably.

Describing all of your equipment, recording method, mixing steps (plugins, EQ, et al), mic placement and room size and any treatment, all are things of relevance.

Generally, the plugged in aspect of a guitar is not going to sound very acoustic, though there are some setups and players that have success with it. Probably more often it is mixed with a mic'd track, but is really not necessary (IMO) unless there's a specific kind of quality in the pickup you want, or the recording space prevents good microphone capture.

Hi Keith!

Thanks so much for your response again! Could you have time to look at my message to you and Gecko zzed above? I hope the link to my video stored at Google Drive works. I included the link as a general "share" I think. I right now can't do an excerpt as it I think means having to go to my free version of Reaper to do it and kind of reluctant to try that so far. I have my B3 mic about 10 inches from my guitar and facing about 5 inches below my sound hole. It's a beautiful rich sounding guitar I now have but it's not coming across in the recording. Please see too my note to you and Gecko zzed combined. Also I think an AKG C214 mic for $89 might sell very fast and hoping I can decide what to do soon for that reason, but understand if you don't have time to respond. Thanks for all!

Top of the Day!
Winfred
 
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keith.rogers

Bobby'); DROP TABLE USER
Hi Keith!

Thanks so much for your response again! Could you have time to look at my message to you and Gecko zzed above? I hope the link to my video stored at Google Drive works. I included the link as a general "share" I think. I right now can't do an excerpt as it I think means having to go to my free version of Reaper to do it and kind of reluctant to try that so far. I have my B3 mic about 10 inches from my guitar and facing about 5 inches below my sound hole. It's a beautiful rich sounding guitar I now have but it's not coming across in the recording. Please see too my note to you and Gecko zzed combined. Also I think an AKG 212c mic for $89 might sell very fast and hoping I can decide what to do soon for that reason, but understand if you don't have time to respond. ...
I've shut down my music room because it's upstairs and the bathroom and all flooring are being done. And my other computer is literally right underneath where they are drilling, smashing tiles, whatever, so listening time is limited. I will try to get to it.

Now that you've figured out Google Drive, it would probably help more for you to upload the raw audio that you've recorded. Somewhere in the Reaper the unmodified track as it was recorded. That will give a clearer picture on what you started with, and whether it's clearly the recording (possibly hardware problem) or mixing that should be looked at first.

Check that listing again. I am not sure about that microphone model you are mentioning. I have a C214 and it's a good mic (made by AKG but mostly just visually related to the C414), just fine for home recordings of acoustic guitar and not bad on many vocals. $89 for that mic would raise a red flag to me. You need to see if there's a problem with the B3, cable or something else in your current chain before jumping at the next shiny object, IMO.
 

TalismanRich

Well-known member
Check that listing again. I am not sure about that microphone model you are mentioning. I have a C214 and it's a good mic (made by AKG but mostly just visually related to the C414), just fine for home recordings of acoustic guitar and not bad on many vocals. $89 for that mic would raise a red flag to me. You need to see if there's a problem with the B3, cable or something else in your current chain before jumping at the next shiny object, IMO.

Agreed. I can't really find anything on a 212 AKG. They made the D12 and D112 which are kick drum dynamic mics. Other than that, it would have to be the C214.
 

Winfred

Member
I've shut down my music room because it's upstairs and the bathroom and all flooring are being done. And my other computer is literally right underneath where they are drilling, smashing tiles, whatever, so listening time is limited. I will try to get to it.

Now that you've figured out Google Drive, it would probably help more for you to upload the raw audio that you've recorded. Somewhere in the Reaper the unmodified track as it was recorded. That will give a clearer picture on what you started with, and whether it's clearly the recording (possibly hardware problem) or mixing that should be looked at first.

Check that listing again. I am not sure about that microphone model you are mentioning. I have a C214 and it's a good mic (made by AKG but mostly just visually related to the C414), just fine for home recordings of acoustic guitar and not bad on many vocals. $89 for that mic would raise a red flag to me. You need to see if there's a problem with the B3, cable or something else in your current chain before jumping at the next shiny object, IMO.

Hi Keith!

Thanks very much for taking your precious time for me! Sorry you're having all the construction, but nice to get it done as I heard about how old bathrooms eventually need to be restored. When I was caring for my mother my sister as a surprise paid $800 and had the old bathroom remodeled and it needs it as the floor can as you know rot. Can't sleep but up 5:33AM, thinking a lot about my music and this debut video. You mention cables... I 17 yrs ago bought nice thick shielded cables with very nice XLR plugs. All along the cable it repeatedly notes: "Professional low noise microphone cable" and I got them from 8th Street Music, a big online store back then. I don't find any brand name on the plugs, but heavy duty stainless steel. I bought the thicker cables as I learned the "signal path" had to be very good, the mics, and the digitizer too. I still have the M-Box like new in the box only it runs on Windows XP and not sure where the ProTools is that I had, but I think that came with it. All was never moved from the house to record anywhere and in good storage ever since.

Sorry as the least I could have done was to be sure about the mic name. It's the AKG Pro Audio C214 Large Diaphragm Condenser Microphone for $89 but all the other items in the store were cut in the same way, hundreds of dollars, like maybe going out of business... Yah, jumping for shiny objects ha! I did email him to ask if it was that price and maybe needs repair or not. I just checked and that was 15 hrs ago and no answer yet. I think too the mic could sell at any moment if my thinking is right, a low price not because of damage to the mic but because of going out of business since all the other about $400 mics are cut to about the same price. This is the 214C Pro Audio C214 Professional Large-Diaphragm Condenser Microphone, Grey
– bassomusic
It's through his own store and not via like ReVerb Nation or Ebay... I look up the address and street view is a house, but maybe that is the case a lot in Australia, home businesses.

I was led to the 214C mic because one recording guy that charges $25 an hour has that on his list of equipment. He said his fiance said no more musicians etc coming to record because of the CoVid19. He said he agreed and cut all appts off. I thought he cared about quality, but his recording station is portable. He said, before CoVid19, that he'd record me on a Roland VS 1824 CD Roland - VS-1824CD | 24-bit Digital Workstation Maybe it was wrong to think he used good mics, but I assumed he knew then found good comments and reviews about the 214C. Would the $89 mic be a good buy and by far better than the B3? I don't mean to ignore you stating the B3 will work, yet I have tried different things. I'm just wondering if this mic is worth it and leaps and bounds a no brainer over the Studio Project B3's and paving the way to a recording like yours and Kieko Nessario's, in her video. If you don't have time I fully understand.

Carpe Diem!
Winfred
PS I didn't record in Reaper in raw audio. I just kept playing until I had an acceptable take (59 takes so far ha). YouTube has basic cutting type of editing but that's all. I took some Reaper tutorial and took good notes but kind of gave up on it and might have that $35 an hour guy go over my recording, master it.
 

Winfred

Member
Agreed. I can't really find anything on a 212 AKG. They made the D12 and D112 which are kick drum dynamic mics. Other than that, it would have to be the C214.

Hi! It's the AKG Pro Audio C214 Large Diaphragm Condenser Microphone. Do you like those? Would it be leaps and bounds better than my Studio Projects B3's that cost $160 ea. The AKG is $400 new and this one I found is $89. See in my post #Very sorry as the least I could have done was get the name right! See it to at: Pro Audio C214 Professional Large-Diaphragm Condenser Microphone, Grey
– bassomusic


The variant=34613634760871&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic

Top of the Day!
Winfred
 

keith.rogers

Bobby'); DROP TABLE USER
...
PS I didn't record in Reaper in raw audio. I just kept playing until I had an acceptable take (59 takes so far ha). YouTube has basic cutting type of editing but that's all. I took some Reaper tutorial and took good notes but kind of gave up on it and might have that $35 an hour guy go over my recording, master it.
You will save a lot of money if you learn to use the equipment you have, IMHO.

An AKG C214 with an *asking* price of $89, to me, says broken, fake, stolen, whatever. I could be wrong, of course, but the lowest asking price on eBay right now is $220. Below 25% of the "street price" (or MAP) has a whiff about it I would avoid. Of course, this may be completely legit, but if it was, he could sell it on eBay or Reverb in a heartbeat for more than $89. (Again, IMHO)

And, if that interface only runs on XP, do you have an XP computer? If not, aren't you still going to need an interface, first? Why buy the mic when you have one, but really need an interface. This is a little tedious, but if you want better audio, start by getting set up to record better audio, and you say you have a decent mic and cables...

You should be able to open that video file in some kind of editor on your computer (QuickTime Player is what I use on a Mac) and just export the audio file. Then, you could attach that to a post, or save it in Google Drive and share the link.
 

mjbphotos

What?!?
I agree with Keith regarding that used (or counterfeit) mic. Forget about it.

Let's get back to how YOU are recording.
Why are you recording with the mics in OMNI? You realize that doing that means the mic picks up all the room reflections? Some of these will be out of phase, and unless you are recording in a nice studio room with the appropriate acoustic treatment, it ain't gonna work well!
Then, you are also recording vocals at the same time. Your voice is very soft. The vocal mic is picking up the guitar, too (more phase issues?) so your voice is drowned out.
Recording a nylon string guitar guitar can be trickier than a steel string. Usually you want the mic to be 18-24" away from the guitar so that the sound has a chance to 'bloom'. Experimenting with different placements is always advised - just set up your gear, hit 'record', then try different placements while recording, noting (by speaking on where/how you are in relation to the mic) the placement.

As to that girl's video. Pretty sure she is lipsynching (hence the earbuds she's wearing). The vocal has a reverb on it that is NOT on the guitar. She may be recording the guitar part while lipsynching the vocal - or not,because you can't see her playing fingers
 

TalismanRich

Well-known member
Hi! It's the AKG Pro Audio C214 Large Diaphragm Condenser Microphone. Do you like those? Would it be leaps and bounds better than my Studio Projects B3's that cost $160 ea. The AKG is $400 new and this one I found is $89. See in my post #Very sorry as the least I could have done was get the name right! See it to at: Pro Audio C214 Professional Large-Diaphragm Condenser Microphone, Grey
– bassomusic


The variant=34613634760871¤cy=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic

Top of the Day!
Winfred

Not trying to rain on your parade or anything, but bassomusic is located in Victoria Australia. I'm guessing you'll be looking at some pretty hefty shipping charges to the US. It might be good to ask if any of our Australian members have ever dealt with the company.

The fact that EVERYTHING is priced in the $75 to $98 range is a red flag for me. Be VERY cautious.
 

Winfred

Member
You will save a lot of money if you learn to use the equipment you have, IMHO.

An AKG C214 with an *asking* price of $89, to me, says broken, fake, stolen, whatever. I could be wrong, of course, but the lowest asking price on eBay right now is $220. Below 25% of the "street price" (or MAP) has a whiff about it I would avoid. Of course, this may be completely legit, but if it was, he could sell it on eBay or Reverb in a heartbeat for more than $89. (Again, IMHO)

And, if that interface only runs on XP, do you have an XP computer? If not, aren't you still going to need an interface, first? Why buy the mic when you have one, but really need an interface. This is a little tedious, but if you want better audio, start by getting set up to record better audio, and you say you have a decent mic and cables...

You should be able to open that video file in some kind of editor on your computer (QuickTime Player is what I use on a Mac) and just export the audio file. Then, you could attach that to a post, or save it in Google Drive and share the link.


Hi Keith!

Thanks very much for your patience with me! If you don't have time for me still I fully understand. It's just in my case a big decision that for most is not... I just thought since all the other mics in that online store with the C214, quite a few other mics, and quite a few speaker sets, more than one person would own if they were trimming down on their studio investment, are all drastically decreased, that just maybe it is a case of the store suddenly selling out everything in a short time for some reason and not because of a defective item. Maybe it's less time consuming selling out from the actual store than on Ebay where I think he'd have to post each individual item... but maybe I'm way off on that supposition. I don't have any insight about things like that as I've only recently looked for recording gear with my attempt to debut my music on YouTube. This is the store's home page.

bassomusic

I look up the street address on Google Map and it shows a residential home, so I'm thinking maybe it's a "cottage industry". I find him as a musician with a few songs that are very good in "Sound Cloud". I just posted and it won't post just his url and auto-posts directly his music and link to more about him. After five attempts to split the url to his music at sound cloud the system here will auto-delete the second half of the url so his music name is "Yuri vs Music" and it's found at Sound Cloud. You can see what his music is like because otherwise the automated system here posts everything and a picture to click on of him, and not sure if that is proper etiquette or not. I have to laugh at myself as maybe his actual music over-all has nothing to do with whether or not he is credible posting the AKG at $89.

Maybe besides his mellow songs at Sound Cloud, can't recall exactly where I was reading yesterday, but I found he was or is maybe somewhat into Punk and Metal, but not sure, which could with heavy percussion and amp-ed guitar etc be hard on the AKG C214... I think. He doesn't note condition of sale, but return mail to Australia would be costly... yet the underlying reality really being once it's sold "that's it", or "as is" etc. I should also consider your major input that the major ultimate question is: "Why doesn't he sell it on Ebay or Reverb Nation etc for a lot more?" Maybe another question is: "Does living in Australia have anything to do with selling direct as opposed to sites like Ebay etc, some customs difficulty or tariff tax etc?" Have you or anyone here heard about that?

I know for sure I need to save money, but find myself dreaming for the possible quick answer being this $89 AKG. I can't try anything further tonight with my Studio Projects B3 due to my sprained wrist. I think I'll be back to normal soon as it is finally feeling somewhat better in the past hour. Yesterday I carried groceries (even just four 1 1/2 lb loaves of bread but having to switch hands quite a few times.) for a mile which didn't help matters, (my pack was too full with hard items for soft bread) but had to shop food was so low. I also bought a nicer shirt for when I record with the Q8 for YouTube if that should help with my "visual" aspect ha!

My present "signal path" is mics, cables, and my Zoom Q8 camera that digitizes the sound. The manufacturer will present the Q8 in the best way possible, but this is what I purchased about 2 months ago.

Zoom Q8 Handy Video Recorder | Zoom

It gets 4 stars out of 119 ratings on Amazon...

Amazon.com: Zoom Q8 Handy Video Recorder, 3M High Definition Video, Stereo Microphones Plus Two XLR/TRS Combo Inputs, Four Tracks of Audio Recording, for Recording, Music, Video, Youtube Videos, Livestreaming,Black: Musical Instruments

It seems it's just my amateur ear, but I'm so far disappointed and feel my guitar sounds muddled in my example video. I'll try the mic positioning you advise ASAP once I'm better. In the video of my song now it was directly at about 5 inches below the sound hole and about 10 inches out from the cedar top of my guitar. I also paid for one hour at that studio only the owner hasn't been upfront about what equipment he'll use in my case. I just gave in after a lot of questions and figured I'll never really know until I try recording there. Another thing that makes me nervous with other entities is what you see in my video is actually "take" 59 ha! That's not including what I deleted where I get halfway through the song and stop over failing at something I feel is not right. I delete all those partial attempts as they take up too much space. Maybe it's me in denial with my wannabe talent after so many attempts, where Kieko Nessario probably did it all in one take ha!

I think you mean to post the audio only here, which would take less space, but I think my posting it here means it's actually stored at YouTube as that was the only way I could figure to make it most accessible. I only posted it "privately" at YouTube and it's not "public" yet of course. I'm not sure what I've mentioned throws a different light on this or not, but thought I'd just pass it by you. Thanks again for all and to all here for such great advice, and any further input from anyone after reading this too is much appreciated.

You mention: And, if that interface only runs on XP, do you have an XP computer? If not, aren't you still going to need an interface, first?
Sorry as I confused things. I use to use the M-box that ran with XP 17 yrs ago with my solo piano albums, but now I use the Q8 camera only as they say it's designed to be an audio and video digitizer all in one. I only mentioned the old M-box because I thought maybe you knew it might be better than the Q8 in creating better quality audio. I still have since January a Scarlett 2i2 3rd Generation still factory sealed in the box, only some told me it would not be better audio quality than the Q8. Do you or anyone maybe have an opinion about that comparison?
Top of the Day!
Winfred
 
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rob aylestone

Well-known member
I've listened to both pieces, and in the girl's one you can even hear a phone ring!

I agree with the others - placement is you big issue here. You have a boxy sounding room, and are using omni mics that will work beautifully in a nice sounding room, but in this one, they don't.

I am NOT going to blame the mic, because I've had stunning results from cheap mics used properly. For me it sounds like you plonked out two mics and did no nistening to optimise their sound, then did NO EQ, or at least ineffective EQ. If you must record two sources at the same time, you need isolation, so cardioid settings and find the best place for the guitar by experimentation. Clearly the one on the guitar also heard your voice - as we can hear fret noise and finger slide noise, which come from further away than your voice. Your vocal mic is too far away - so get it in closer. At the distance in the video, the pop shield wasn't doing anything anyway.

Get the mic in closer, take advantage of the proximity effect to get your voice warmer, and then you just have to add processing. EQ is absolutely essential, and probably a bit of reverb and maybe a tad of compression to tame the clouds and softs.

You also need to place the mic so you can sing into it and not have to keep moving your head. You look at the cameras, then look at the mic and we hear this.

Being frank - you have a competent recorder, but 59 takes is a joke. After 6 or 7 your performance falls off. It's never going to be a case where you record on your device and upload straight to Youtube - it needs work inside a computer, or at least with some device, like a mixer and another recorder!
 

keith.rogers

Bobby'); DROP TABLE USER
...
I know for sure I need to save money, but find myself dreaming for the possible quick answer being this $89 AKG. I can't try anything further tonight with my Studio Projects B3 due to my sprained wrist. I think I'll be back to normal soon as it is finally feeling somewhat better in the past hour. ...
I looked at that site and it is clearly selling counterfeit items. Even though the picture says AKG, nowhere in the description does it actually say that it is selling you an AKG C214. The page title is "Pro Audio C214..."

Listen to the folks here that are trying to help you. Fix the mic positioning, and work so you can get a decent recording in, let's say less than 10 takes. I do know that is hard to do when you want to get everything right from start to finish, which is why the vast majority of professional videos are not done in a single take, though they make look that way. If you still need to watch the chart or look at the guitar to get through it, chances of success are slim.

An alternative is to always practice to a click (perhaps with some earbuds) and then you can just pick up and restart where you made a mistake, and paste things together with a bit of crossfading if you really must produce a video. Honestly, I would seriously work on getting the audio part right first, and once you can do that, then work on the video. That's a whole 'nother can of worms.

So, use the Q8 so it captures the audio and video separately - this has been covered before either with you on this forum or the Acoustic Guitar Forum, perhaps with someone else. Just work on the audio file quality, i.e., mic placement, technical stuff (string/mechanical/human noises) and mixing.

And, when you do get around to the video, you should see if you can efficiently render down to a more compressed format, maybe even 720p. I usually have something on the order of ~300MB, plus or minus, for short (popular) kinds of songs.
 

Winfred

Member
I've listened to both pieces, and in the girl's one you can even hear a phone ring!

I agree with the others - placement is you big issue here. You have a boxy sounding room, and are using omni mics that will work beautifully in a nice sounding room, but in this one, they don't.

I am NOT going to blame the mic, because I've had stunning results from cheap mics used properly. For me it sounds like you plonked out two mics and did no nistening to optimise their sound, then did NO EQ, or at least ineffective EQ. If you must record two sources at the same time, you need isolation, so cardioid settings and find the best place for the guitar by experimentation. Clearly the one on the guitar also heard your voice - as we can hear fret noise and finger slide noise, which come from further away than your voice. Your vocal mic is too far away - so get it in closer. At the distance in the video, the pop shield wasn't doing anything anyway.

Get the mic in closer, take advantage of the proximity effect to get your voice warmer, and then you just have to add processing. EQ is absolutely essential, and probably a bit of reverb and maybe a tad of compression to tame the clouds and softs.

You also need to place the mic so you can sing into it and not have to keep moving your head. You look at the cameras, then look at the mic and we hear this.

Being frank - you have a competent recorder, but 59 takes is a joke. After 6 or 7 your performance falls off. It's never going to be a case where you record on your device and upload straight to Youtube - it needs work inside a computer, or at least with some device, like a mixer and another recorder!

Hi Rob!

Thanks very much for taking the time to consider me! I thought I needed a pop screen for my acoustic guitar because to minimize noise created by plucking the strings and sliding my fingers across the wound strings, but I will try not using that screen and place the mic even closer, plus other means to increase my sound quality. I tried many takes and moving the mics, and changing gain, but thanks to advice not doing so effectively.

You mention the boxy room and not sure what you mean, but maybe it might mean it's echoy? I'm in a room in the far corner of a nine story 131 apartment bldg almost hardly ever used and meant as a rec room. It is a big room, about 50 feet by 20 feet or 15 meters by 6 meters. It has baseboard heat in winter, but no ventilation vents or air conditioning that could cause noise, just one big ceiling fan I can turn off. It doesn't echo in the room because of carpeting and I think because of furniture, a big pool table, two 6 ft long tables, many very tall stacks of stack-able chairs etc. and false ceiling with soft foam-like panels and 3 ft of dead space to a very thick concrete floor construction and adjacent to rooms hardly ever used. It is basically dead silent. To me it is a musician's home recording dream. It is also up against a steep river bluff about 3 floors below street level on the two outside walls. The way the bldg is entered from the street level is by about a 100 ft long enclosed bridge to the 4th floor. The only thing that happens is sometimes, not often, others come to shoot pool thus I must tear all down.

It means 35 min to set up and same to tear down every time I go there. I use my laundry bag cart to transport my 3 tripods, lights, and other things and wear my guitar on my back. The case has nice shoulder straps. I by great advice, will place next time my mic at the area where the neck meets the body and see how that goes, and per your advice I'll not use the pop screen and place it even closer than the former 10 inches away. My problem is getting brave and using my 60 day free Reaper software now about 30 days passed.

Years ago I'm finding it was by far easier to record my acoustic solo piano (no vocals just piano). I was in an un-used bedroom of a 4 bedroom farm house in a very quiet country setting with no neighbors, only wilderness in every direction. It too was a very quiet room. My mother could be watching TV in the living room and no sound effect my recording. I had to put the B3's on omni or I would get that strange phase effect where the recording would sound like it was done with mics mounted in tin cans, terrible. At that time the mics were 6 feet apart where now they are only 3 feet or less apart. Being on omni I think is fine as the room is absolutely silent. Are you saying boxy because the mics receive with micro latency a bounced sound that I can't myself hear that causes degradation? I use no amplifiers as all is directly my voice and the volume of my un-amplified nylon string guitar. To me my guitar sounds muddled but maybe it's just me being too fussy. To me it's muddled enough it bothers me. I'm also by great advice not considering that my example of Keiko Nessario's recording being mastered either by her or by some professional sound engineer.

I don't want to play with engineering and might try to find someone online. My question to all is to let me know if they know of any good engineer to master my audio. I decided I'm not going to edit in pictures of beautiful scenes and keep the visuals simple. I'm reading that it's important how the thumbnail appears so I might try to figure out how to have a picture of beautiful clouds in the thumbnail, all another task to be learned. Years ago and some others were impressed, like my title song with my album, Red Sky At Night, was 16 minutes long. I surprised myself as I didn't have to do all that many takes, but... the farther I got into the song the more nervous I'd get ha! I knew if I had any mistake I would have to start all over again as no way did I want to try to figure out how to do that kind of editing, and seamlessly. I have other songs on that album and my second album that are up to 30 minutes long... It's amazing as I sold almost 4,000 copies to book stores and gift shops and businesses with sound systems just as Sirius Radio and Pandora etc were taking over and as CD sales were dropping off fast and stores discontinuing selling them.

Others, not me, are still selling my albums 17 yrs later on Ebay, Amazon, and other places mostly used but still some bran new never opened from $45 to 4.95 ha! About a year ago a store in Japan had my "Over The Rainbow" solo piano album for $85 and about 2 weeks later it was gone! You will see my "Red Sky At Night" for sale too, and also not by me. I've seen it for $65 a few times too, and that was only about last February, a store in LA! It was all recorded with the Studio Projects B3 mics but not with the Zoom Q8. The sound engineer who mastered it told me I had done such a good job he was blown away and only had to do some minor things. I tried hard to find him again, but so many years passed I couldn't. I think he retired or died and felt a conflict of interest to ask the manufacturer I had originally hired as he worked for them.

Back in 2003 and 2004 I had just the $587 "M-Box" by Digidesign that is now of course obsolete. I don't know to what degree my Q8 might be to blame, or the audio not being mastered at all, just as it was recorded... but again me being too concerned... yet it is my debut video to attract others to my originals, a crucial video that in the first few seconds viewers can reject. I know the problem is also "me", to what degree I have what it takes, only after many open mics in coffeehouses I have received a lot of encouragement, however I might find out such an open mic crowd is more empathetic than the general public at YouTube... I've never played guitar and sang in public until recently. Any input is much appreciated. Thanks for all!

Kindest Regards,
Winfred
 

Winfred

Member
I looked at that site and it is clearly selling counterfeit items. Even though the picture says AKG, nowhere in the description does it actually say that it is selling you an AKG C214. The page title is "Pro Audio C214..."

Listen to the folks here that are trying to help you. Fix the mic positioning, and work so you can get a decent recording in, let's say less than 10 takes. I do know that is hard to do when you want to get everything right from start to finish, which is why the vast majority of professional videos are not done in a single take, though they make look that way. If you still need to watch the chart or look at the guitar to get through it, chances of success are slim.

An alternative is to always practice to a click (perhaps with some earbuds) and then you can just pick up and restart where you made a mistake, and paste things together with a bit of crossfading if you really must produce a video. Honestly, I would seriously work on getting the audio part right first, and once you can do that, then work on the video. That's a whole 'nother can of worms.

So, use the Q8 so it captures the audio and video separately - this has been covered before either with you on this forum or the Acoustic Guitar Forum, perhaps with someone else. Just work on the audio file quality, i.e., mic placement, technical stuff (string/mechanical/human noises) and mixing.

And, when you do get around to the video, you should see if you can efficiently render down to a more compressed format, maybe even 720p. I usually have something on the order of ~300MB, plus or minus, for short (popular) kinds of songs.

Hi Keith!

Back in the Eighties I was living in a rooming house which was a very good deal for low rent. I had a bedroom the size of my present apartment ha! We shared two kitchens and three bathrooms with many in a big old mansion. Anyways, a guy there told me he bought a special gift for his fiancee. He handed me a Rolex watch. I knew the Rolex name and was very impressed but silently wondered why so much money, and his hard earned dollary... but juxtaposed that with one's choice in expressing their love. I handed it back after a list of adjectives and he met that with a big grin and said it was a counterfeit! I didn't know that can happen with microphones! So many though are very expensive I shouldn't be surprised. I never thought of really reading into the description and how it is carefully worded. I should always take greater caution when something seems too good to be true. I did email and ask if there was maybe some damage to it and no response. I probably would have bought it if it wasn't for your advice and I'm very grateful! I should have learned that wisdom long ago. When I was a college student back in the Seventies I spent a lot of my hard earned dollar on a supposed student job agency in Europe that would set students up with a job and exciting experience in Europe. Well... I never got the language books and records I paid for, and they sent me to a job that didn't exist. I still stayed as my airline ticket was good for a year. I hitchhiked all over and worked illegal jobs for less than minimum wage, yet had some great times.

I paid for one hr with that studio so I'll still record there and try to lip sync it later as that studio doesn't do videos. I'm also going to try harder with the advice I appreciate so much from here. My wrist is finally starting to feel better, but I must be sure it's healed or I'll be soon back to the start again with it. If you have time see my post #18 too as I describe more different things. Years ago I hired a sound engineer for mastering who was very good, and I think I'll do that again. Do you or anyone here know any good ones that aren't real expensive? With Mastering maybe I can get equal to Kieko's sound quality, or like with your great recording of "April Comes She Will". I love that song and have sang it for years, but you really hit it great! I wonder why I'm trying so hard with quality etc and in a way I guess I'm trying to also "leave something behind" before I sign off, and/or before I become a "Dharma Bum" as Jack Kerouac would say... and gradually go around the world and survive on my bit of Social Security, fulfill some of my "bucket list". It would be nice if some of my originals might sell a little at least on like Spotify and help with a little income each month, but I am aware of the odds, plus most purchasers of music are not at all interested in an elderly person's music. Many thanks!
Kindest Regards,
Winfred

PS Are more of your songs on YouTube?
 

gecko zzed

Grumpy Mod
My problem is getting brave and using my 60 day free Reaper software now about 30 days passed.

Once the 60 day trial has passed, you can still use Reaper. All that happens is that you get a nag screen encouraging you to buy it each time you start it up.
 
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