Who went to school for recording? Who hometaught themselves?

[cusebassman]

I believe that you get as much as you put in.

By "how little you get out of it" I mean to say that it is (from what I've heard) very difficult finding employment as an audio engineer - I'd imagine you would learn quite a bit in a rather short period of time going to school for audio engineering specifically.

You probably learn in a matter of days or weeks what it has taken me 1 1/2 years on this and other forums to learn, on novice equipment. As I said in some post in this thread, its all about whether you are willing to take the risk - spend the 100k+ to get a degree in something that may never make you money, or go a safer route.

I went the safe route and got a degree in computer science, and am now the standard day-employee night-engineer in my home. I have very little time for it, but I am also financially secure at the moment. As a matter of priorities, I feel better having money in the bank than doing what I love and having creditors pounding at the door of my apartment that a pile of dead rats are holding shut - does that make me a "sell-out" in life - sure, but I'm happy, so

 

[jmorris]

taught by me....playing guitar to mono recorder then playing along with playback and re-recording it with another tape deck is how I got my start, then to cass 4 track, then 8 track 1/2" then adats then HD24 and computer. I mean what other field can you teach yourself and achieve almost if not the same and sometimes better than the guys that went to school. This has been said before on this BBS but you got to be nuts to spend the kind of $$$ they want at a recording school these days with the job prospects so poor. Full Sail...what 70 grand?

 

[MessianicDreams]

jesus, how much does it cost you americans to get a degree...i see people talking about spending $70k-$150k?? That's just stupid. I study at one of the best institutions for audio engineering in the country and I'll have paid under $10k in tuition fees by the time i'm finished with the course.

As to the unbelievers of getting a degree...I've just turned 21 and have work on at a number of major label releases (Sony BMG, EMI) as well as a bunch of minor/indie. I work at one of the best studios in my area and am basically guaranteed a job there as an engineer.

None of this would've been possible if i'd just taken some "lessons" or whatever...


As with most things in life, you get out what you put in....

 

[jmorris]

jesus, how much does it cost you americans to get a degree...i see people talking about spending $70k-$150k?? That's just stupid. I study at one of the best institutions for audio engineering in the country and I'll have paid under $10k in tuition fees by the time i'm finished with the course.

As to the unbelievers of getting a degree...I've just turned 21 and have work on at a number of major label releases (Sony BMG, EMI) as well as a bunch of minor/indie. I work at one of the best studios in my area and am basically guaranteed a job there as an engineer.

None of this would've been possible if i'd just taken some "lessons" or whatever...


As with most things in life, you get out what you put in....

I f you have the cash( or daddys cash) to go and get a degree here in the USA, go for it. My point is not that Im a non-believer, but you can do it without a degree or any "formal" training at all. It is one of the few fields I can think of that yeilds that. If you can do it in the UK for 10 grand that's great. I wish it was that cheap here. If that was the case I would have done it. But now days to spend the kind of cash to "maybe" get a job in a field that is shrinking day by day and where budgets are shrinking for recording even faster seems foolish.Then again as George Burns said " I'd rather be a failure at something I love, than a success at something I hate".

 

[pezking]

That's just stupid. I study at one of the best institutions for audio engineering in the country and I'll have paid under $10k in tuition fees by the time i'm finished with the course.

Where do you study and which course is it?

 

[Ironklad Audio]

jesus, how much does it cost you americans to get a degree...i see people talking about spending $70k-$150k?? That's just stupid. I study at one of the best institutions for audio engineering in the country and I'll have paid under $10k in tuition fees by the time i'm finished with the course.

well...here's the thing - while college tuition is extremely expensive in the US(i was just looking at a local private school this morning that runs $30,000+/yr.), the real killers are the schools that are specializing in audio - places like full sail, CRAS, LARW, etc.

most of the "certificate" programs run around 9 months in length, and will cost you $15,000-18,000. full degree programs, such as full sail or expressions, will run at least $100,000 if you go straight out of high school...if you already completed your gen. ed. stuff at another college, you're looking at around $70,000. that's on par with the cost of a degree at a top-notch school in the US...but as many people have stated, the chance of making that money back working in the audio field is slim at best.

and while on the topic, i saw earlier today that Indiana University offers a master's degree in music technology that can be completed entirely online...i'm not sure what the cost is, but it's something i think i might be interested in after i finish my bachelor's degree. however much it costs, i'm sure it's a lot less than going to full sail and only takes 1 year of instruction. on top of that, the completion of a master's degree, regardless of the field, opens a lot more doors than a bachelor's in audio engineering.

edit: the cost for the master's program is $300.18/credit hour(in-state) and $874.22/credit hour(non-resident). with 30 units to complete, that makes $9000 if you live in IN, and $26226.60(!!!!) if you're out-of-state. i wouldn't bother if i had to pay the out-of-state rates...but since i just moved here from CA, $9000 seems more than reasonable for obtaining a master's.

 

[whjr15]

Whenever this subject comes up, everyone always assumes a (music)recording studio. Yeah, the jobs in that area are pretty hard to come by. But thats not the only thing youre limited to.

Front of house/ monitor mixers for concerts make great money. Live sound can't be hurt like the studios and the advent of home recording equipment... Can you say job stability?

Every tv and radio station in the world needs an audio engineer. Whats this about a job shortage?

And not every school costs more than my house... Im not ashamed to say I just started CRAS (about 1/5 the cost of full sail), and the amount of knowledge I've gained in about 2 months here would've taken me 5+ years on my own.... If ever. And on top of that, in order to graduate we have to complete an internship that the school helps set up --- Instant foot in the door.

It all goes back to the saying "you get what you put into it." I mean, if you truely love audio it wouldn't matter if you're in the recording studio, mixing front of house, or at some tv station somewhere.

 

[SonicAlbert]

The poll is flawed--most engineers that I've worked with are not self-taught and did not attend any of those recording schools. Those engineers came up by apprenticing at commercial recording studios, by working as assistants to older recording engineers. In my opinion, this is the best way to learn the art of recording and mixing.

As for myself, what I've learned about recording is by observing pro engineers in a studio setting, and by a lot of study and practice on my own. I am a musician, not a recording engineer, but I've learned a lot from the excellent engineers I've worked with.

 

[rayc]

I stumbled around with a pportastudio & then a computer for almost 20 years gettting none too far but, in retrospect, getting things to tape or HDD.
in 2005 I discovered this place & have managed to do some good things with the stuff I'd previously just managed to record.
This translates to:
Most of my advanced learning has been done at/on/through this BBS.

 

[soundchaser59]

This translates to:
Most of my advanced learning has been done at/on/through this BBS.

CooL.

Wait til you start learning from the other forums online. This place only scratches the surface, some good stuff here, but you'll get even further with your efforts if you include 3 or 4 other recording forums that are more "serious" than this one....

 

[Beck]

...I didn't think it was worth paying that much money to learn recording when you could get it for free from online forums like these.

Oy Vey!

Web forums are no place to learn the fundamentals. If you don't already have some foundation you have no reference with which to judge the validity of a member’s contribution.

At worst it’s the blind leading the blind; at best it takes a long time to learn who knows what they’re doing and who’s just passing around info they’ve heard from others that don’t know what they’re doing.

I see more bad advice than good on all the popular recording forums. There is only a handful on each forum with extensive backgrounds.

Forums have a place, but only after you have some sense of orthodoxy.

Education and training are good things.

By the way I was apprenticed.... and self-taught by reading standard sound recording works and learning by doing, not browsing forums. My degree is in social science, which has proven quite useful in the music business. I have friends with engineering degrees that couldn’t even find the on/off switches on some of my gear, but they do know what an on/off switch is for in theory.

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

....but they do know what an on/off switch is for in theory.

Smart guys!

 

[cusebassman]

Smart guys!

You'd be amazed at how many people can't find an on/off switch

 

[PsychoticTurtle]

I am completely self-taught in recording. I started four years ago by recording guitar tracks into a cheap computer microphone and mixing it through Acid Music 3.0. After recording a few "songs" with the microphone, I decided to purchase a better microphone. I then bought a Shure SM57 which I connected directly into the input of my computer using a line transformer. The sound quality was better but now my music had an annoying hiss sound which I was unable to do much about due to my lack of a mixer. I also recorded my drum tracks with a single microphone which sounded uneven and distorted. Although I had a terrible sounding setup, I quickly learned about recording and mixing using Acid. Around this time, I even started double tracking guitar tracks as well. I actually had figured out the technique of double tracking myself. After recording hundreds of demos, I decided to make a major upgrade. Two years ago, I purchased a 24 channel mixer, a set of drum mikes, and a better guitar amp. At first, I was a little overwelmed with all of the dials and settings but after a couple months, I was making wonderful sounding songs that sounded near professional. In the last two years, I have been working with this same equipment and I continue to improve the quality as I learn more about recording. I have found that one of the best ways to learn about recording techniques is to experiment with it and see what works and what doesn't.

 

[Beerhunter]

Hey all, I just started an AE course at a local college here. I've been recording our band (and a few other projects) at my home studio for about 5 years so I am self-taught right now.

I have a career in IT right now and I've been to college many years ago for graphic design. I'm hoping to get into a computer gaming company (like EA). This will combine my entire skillset into one job.

Anyways, I am blogging my experience while taking the course. You can find the blog here http://beerhunter341.blogspot.com/ if you are interested.

 

[Soundmind??]

Perhaps the main thing to remember about formal schooling is that schools will not make you a pro at anything, they will teach you the fundamentals and theory, along with some practical hands on training. While the fundamentals will give you a good foundation, you will have to spend many hours learning and experimenting to become a pro. Graduates from engineering schools are not engineers....they are engineering candidates. After several years of continued study and application of their training they become engineers in their specific field.

 

[jhamrn]

new to home recording

I came to this site hoping to find information on how to record, songs that I have composed, using my home computer. I have a fairly good condenser microphone, a behringer eurorack ub802 mixer, a headphone amplifier, & alesis midiverb 3. I'm thinking about just using the soundcard (realtek) that came with my 1 year old computer. I have older recording software such as cubase vst 3.5, sony vegas, cakewalk sonar. My goal is to just have some decent recorded songs without breaking the bank. After reading some of the posts on this site, I know that some people on this site may laugh at the equiptment I am going to use. I've already heard about the low quaility of Behringer. Anyway, can anyone give me simple instructions on how to make a fairly decent recording. Singer and songwriter

 

[jeffmaher]

Hey! Back.

So like I took two lessons...and I was right...learned more in a few hours with a pro than all I did in a year on my own. automation, sequencing..mixing...some good stuff.

But my reason for posting again is jhamms:
After reading some of the posts on this site, I know that some people on this site may laugh at the equiptment I am going to use. I've already heard about the low quaility of Behringer.

The guy who taught me has recorded a gold record, and had singles in the Billboard top 10 at least twice, US and international.

His mixing console: Behringer Eurodesk. And he doesn't use the pre's direct.

He has a Cray-like computer feeding the highest quality samples into his MIDI constructions.....but the audio is through the Behringer.

He's quite pleased with it. Go figger.

ps. I graduated with a homework assignment;

"Record every day, eight hours a day, for a few years: you'll learn what you need to know."

 

[Dax Productions]

Here's the thing guys... Like someone else said, getting into the "music industry" and making a shitload of cash producing or engineering records is about as likely as breaking into the NBA out of high school, or at all for that matter.

There is a TON of work in alternative media. The problem is that a lot of people that go to these schools are so set on pursuing the dream of being the next Butch Walker or Timbaland. People need to understand that if you want to work in music, you need to be IMMENSELY talented, and lucky!

One other thing worth mentioning is that a lot of people that get into these schools don't have the talent to begin with. Audio production is an art, not a skill, and while you can learn all the pro tools commands in the world, it won't matter if you can't tell what sounds awesome and what doesn't!

 

[jeffmaher]

Hey...the way i see thing play out is that it's the executive producers who make the scads o' cash...they have the money, risk it..and lose...or win: everybody else is a subcontractor..some better paid than others. The engineers of 'name' get good pay, but often also invest in the products they make as co-EXProducers.....they get a %. of the profit from the project.

And here's another thing...the pro guy I mentioned in my above post? The major that picked up the record he co-wrote, co-produced, recorded and mastered...and did all the arrangements and instrumentation? He got major FOOKED by the major distribution company which altered the terms of his written contract... illegally. They said "achieve us". He went to court and, naturally , prevailed. The lawyers got the lion's share of the money. And his international hit? Same deal: ASCAP, Harry Fox, and his publisher all dropped the ball on his behalf. He's in the process of recovery...but, again, the lawyers will be the biggest winners.
It's an exclusive club up there at Sony/BMG , etc. They have lawyers and money...and ignore contract law with great regularity. They know most people will roll over. Those who don't sometimes wish they had.

The money he has made for all he has achieved is shockingly small.

And that's why he's doing filmscore, now, instead...a whole 'nuther group of players, outside that 'big five' establishment, who have , like, morals.

At the same time, another buddy of mine is making unsophisticated hard rock stuff used by auto and beer commercial producers , and sports broadcasters, etc. He's raking it in, relatively speaking. The difference is that his material is handled by production music publishers...smaller outfits...that actually treat their composers fairly.

I see a future. It ain't trying to make hit records!!