Which Monitor/Amp Setup

  • Thread starter Thread starter laj35
  • Start date Start date
if you can swing the $$$$, most definitely get the actives, IMO......
 
Laj,

Hate to say it, but None Of The Above. Or at least you need some well designed subs go along with these monitors.

As an electronic musician you enjoy some significant equipment cost savings over those who record 'live' music. But monitors aint-one-a-dem things you can save on. For the kind of music you are doing, I suggest you look for monitors with wider frequency and dynamic range than these can offer. I can point you to some alternative sources besides traditional nearfields. They're fairly expensive but they are also extremely good "values".

What kind of amp do you have right now?

barefoot
 
Ouch, Barefoot right now I'm starin at my tres tres beau panasonic "monitors" that are "amped" by the 5cd changer home stereo. Big joke I know, laugh it up, yeah yeah. Anyways, tax returns got me with about 500-600 so I was going to get some knobby type midi controllers, as I love knobs, but maybe it's finally time to go and get a decent monitoring system. Got a couple pairs of decent cans but know there not gonna cut it. What you suggest? Appreciate your thoughts man.



Laj
 
laj,

first determine what type of recording you are doing:

PRO QUALITY

DEMO QUALITY

HOBBYIST QUALITY

spend accordingly........
 
Hmmm....Gidge that's a hard question for me to even answer to myself. I mean it's atleast a hobby that makes me happy, yet I feel it's atleast demo quality and I aspire to make "pro" sounding tracks sooner than later. Hence, I equally aspire to have "pro" sounding gear that will allow me to produce "pro" sounding tunes, kinda a catch22 of sorts I guess. As I've said, I'm lookin at around 500 bucks, or so. I want the absolute best quality amp/monitor setup I can buy with that kind of cash or maybe save another couple hundred for a more suitable one. To answer your question I guess I'd say I want pro gear as my stuff is worth it to me.

Barefoot I'd definitely like to hear your suggestions as you have heard my stuff and seem to know the ins and outs of electronica, which is somewhat of a rarity around here. I mean I am curious about how say the Reveals would give a sufficient dynamic range for live recordiongs but not quite so for stuff like mine. If you could expand on that I would REALLY apreciate it! Thanks man!



Laj
 
Laj,

Let me just warn you that I design and build speakers, so I come to this with a definite "perspective". But I really do think it's the right one.

If you search around for some of my post you'll see that I firmly believe for many, many reasons that loudspeakers are by far the weakest link in most every monitoring chain, so they require the most consideration.

Electronica has special demands because it's both dynamic and synthetic. The kind of IDM and ambient that you and I are into is especially dynamic, akin to live jazz or classical recordings. But the synthetic side allows us to create sounds which are not common in live music, or even common in nature at all. Beyond this you're making music which is as likely to be played in a club as in a car or living room. Finding a loudspeaker which can encompass all of these demands is not trivial.

I build speakers, so I'm very familiar with the strengths and limitations of the designs and components commonly used in Tannoys, Events, Mackies, and the rest. They are far from outstanding. Most of these monitors are simply designed to have flat frequency response and little else. True linearity is much more than flat response, and actually quite difficult to achieve. Top that off with the fact that we are asking this for music which often has significant content below 40Hz or even 30Hz.

You read a lot about "translatability" with respect to monitors. Well, as most mastering engineers know, the best translatability comes from a monitoring system which most closely represents the actual recorded waveform. This is why they are using $30,000+ B&W, Quested, etc., speakers.

OK, I'll stop my lecturing now. :) I'm sure you don't have $30k+ to lay down, neither do I. But something more in the range of $1k and some judicious spending can get you much closer to the truth than your average nearfield ever will.

Here are some suggestions I have made in the recent past. They are speaker kits which are easily built and can get you into the world class ballpark at middle class prices:

http://www.speakercity.com/sc_kits.shtml
Scanspeak 7, Raven 7, Scan Speak MTM-18

http://www.zalytron.com
look in Kits/Premium for Wonder-R, Aria 6 RW

They look similar to nearfield monitors in that they have woofers and tweeters (though the Raven is a ribbon tweeter), but this is where the similarity ends. The drivers and components in the models I've suggested are vastly superior. I know they're quite expensive compared to what you've been looking at, but the linearity of these speakers will leave something like a Mackie HR824 in the dust. They're passive, so you need an amp as well. But, as I've said, sacrificing on the amp quality for speaker quality will get you much further on a given budget since speakers have such embarrassingly poorer performance specs than electronics.

I particularly endorse the dual woofer designs since accurate deep bass REQUIRES surface area - the laws of physics tell us there is no way around it. The next step of course would be subwoofers, but I'll leave it for now. Hope all this hasn't ruined your day.;)

barefoot
PS - And did I forget to mention the sheer p l e a s u r e of listening to music through a transparent system.... ahhhhh.:D
 
Phew, well I guess I know what I 'm saving for anyways. Gotta get an EvolutionMK249C controller for my newly acquired Novation A Station and FM-7 Soft Synth but after that it's definitely high time for some proper monitors. I really don't have any problem spending some cash as not only do I not want to spend less twice (or more) but I am all for optimum listening to my/all tunes. I REALLY appreciate your help Barefoot, you are proving to be one of the most helpful members of the BBS for me, and it doesn't go unnoticed in the least. If I ever make it down to SF I'd love to pick your brain, or hey you got an in in Seattle if you take a vaca in the NW. Thanks again man, I'm off to do some research!



Laj
 
OK so I've read through those sites a bit Barefoot, again thanks. A couple of questions though:

1. My roomates/bandmates especially and my self a bit have fairly decent knowledge regarding how to put together high tech stuff, admittedly mostly PCs, which aren't terribly hard, but IYO do you think it's possible we could assemble one of these kits?

2. Now you also mentioned that I could probably skimp a bit on the amp. That said would an amp like the Hafler Ta11/1600 be sufficient? It's not wattage(volume) I'm concerned with, I don't need anything too loud, 'm just wondering if something like that, or something cheaper even, would suffice in powering the speakers?

Hey thanks again man, your help is like gold!


Laj
 
laj35 said:
1. ...do you think it's possible we could assemble one of these kits?
Absolutely. I’m pretty sure all you need is a soldering iron and a screwdriver.

2. ...would an amp like the Hafler Ta11/1600 be sufficient? It's not wattage(volume) I'm concerned with, I don't need anything too loud, 'm just wondering if something like that, or something cheaper even, would suffice in powering the speakers?
I think either of the Haflers would be fine for a start. I wouldn’t go much cheaper though.

And thanks for the nice compliments Laj. I try my best to give good solid advice. Definitely drop me a note if you plan to make it down to SF. I’ll do the same next time I plan trip to Seattle, whenever that may be.

Btw, check out my new web site. Not much up there yet, but it has some pictures of speakers I’ve designed. I’ve built many more, but these are the only that I have decent pics of. http://www.geocities.com/twbarefoot2000

barefoot
 
Realy cool lookin speakers barefoot, you make any sort of cash off of them or is that just a bit of a hobby. I liked those tracks too, equip: Acid, SF, Stomper, that's it, really?



Laj
 
I went with the passive Reveals and a 70 watt amp.
I suppose I could have worked with powered monitors and no outboard amp, but opted for the flexibility afforded by seperates.

The Tannoys sound great to my rookie ears and I enjoy being able to route my playback rig thru the amp and my "warmer" home speakers. This may have been achieved through patching, I dunno. Time always tells later if I've shopped wisely.
 
laj35 said:
Realy cool lookin speakers barefoot, you make any sort of cash off of them or is that just a bit of a hobby. I liked those tracks too, equip: Acid, SF, Stomper, that's it, really?
I ran my own speaker company for about 5 years. 3 of them only part time because I was attending grad school. Even though I had more work lined up than I could do, I made just enough money to get by. It's a really tough business to make money in. Also, this was back in my home town Pittsburgh PA. Not a huge market there for high end audio. Recently I've been doing it just for fun.

Yes, primarily just Acid, SF, Stomper and tons of samples. The P4 song is derived from the Mixman DM2, so I guess I "played" some of those sounds. But everything I do is arranged and mixed in Acid. Worksong uses a few very ambient Global Electronic Network tunes like pads to flesh out my own beats, bass lines, and loops. It's less than an original, but a bit more than a remix. So I described it as a "reconstruction".

I'm looking around for people to collaborate with. I'm finding my talent mostly centers around rhythm structures and grooves. I find it difficult to come up with the melodic and thematic "icing on the cake" if you know what I mean. I have several completely original mixes worked out, but I don't want post them because they're too rawly rhythmical - and frankly too stealable at this point.

I really do love to come up with phat, ass shaking grooves:D

barefoot
 
Barefoot, I really think you should e-mail me man, I have some wierd phobia of making beats/gooves. While I often literally force myself to sit down and program out a drum line or a bass riff, I find it a very slow and arduos task. For me I'm more on the finishing touches side. I'm obssesed with making itty bitty cryptic sounds that breathe in and out of tracks and tie everything together. Many of the tunes I make end up just being a collage of random sounds with little or no rythym tracks at all, just melodies and sound fx. I understand your apprehension about putting your stuf out on a limb, but e-mail me and maybe we can come to some sort of common ground and work on a track together---> laj2235@hotmail.com



Laj
 
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