When does mixing stop and mastering begin?

[jdier]

DISCLAIMER:
OK, my project is low end, low budget. I am doing this for a buddy in exchange for his help on another project. This is the first thing I have recorded and engineered and mixed and I am doing it all in our new home studio. However, I want to do as good of a job as I can...
END DISCLAIMER

DISCLAIMER 2: I posted this question at another site and the replys were of high quality, but low quantity. I am really wanting to know how far to take my mix, I am feeling like I cannot get much closer than I am with out doing things that I have always thought would be done by an ME.

I mix what I have using as little EQ and Compression as I can. I worked to get good sounds during tracking and now I am just using effects to help clean up and even out the mix... When I am done, I feel like I am a little weak on low end.

If I jack up the kick, it overtakes the mix (or sometimes puts me 'over' (if that is the right word... ~my meters peak~)

If I put up the Bass (upright) it also makes me peak out.

I have resisted using compression on the bass and kick since the players were very even and played very well. The few places where a single kick or pluck drives the meters over I correct with a volume envelope.

So, do I just go in and eq/compress the bass and kick until the lowend comes together, or do I leave it like it is and let the mastering house (read: 'someone smarter and more experienced than me') fix it with higher quality EQ and Compression?

Or, perhaps, is it a little of both? My hesitance with the EQ and Compression is that, as a new user with limited experience, I could wind up doing more harm than good, and, for the most part the mixes sound pretty good to me...

I know mp3 is the not best way to hear this, but you CAN hear my problem here...

Bear in mind, if you really crank it up, it is all there, but in my mind, a good mix is one that sounds correct across a large sweep of volumes.

Here is a link to an example:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/danwhitakercountrybandmusic.htm

While ALL of the songs have the problem I think 'the fool' is the best example of my situation.

Thanks in advance for the help and direction.

Jim

 

[dwillis45]

I think you need to use some compression and EQ on indiviudual tracks in order to get the best possible mix. Remember, when you send your stereo mix for mastering, it will be difficult for the ME to compress indiviudal instruments without affecting others. Multiband compression can help, but ultimately it's better to address compression issues at the mixing stage. With this type of music, however, you want to preserve dynamic range--so don't squash the hell out of things. (It's not Modern Rock or Punk, after all!).

I would also do some reserach on Mastering houses and see if you can establish a relationship with a good ME. Many mastering studios will do single tracks to give you a sample of what you can expect from mastering. A good ME will also give you clues as to what additional steps might be taken during mixing to improve the sound. Remember, the ME is more than just a technical guru with expensive boxes. They are also a second set of ears.

 

[regebro]

Mastering begins when you taka your mix to a mastering house.

However, if you don't wanna take your mix to a mastering house, you may still want to make it sound louder by applying some compression and limiting, and maybe some EQ. This can very well be done during mixing. No problems.

 

[Beezoboy]

Hey I listened to what you are talking about. Your problem lies with EQ. Compression could make it better too.

The problem is that your kick has WAY too much low energy going on. It sounds like when you say "P" into the microphone. I think you have a good mix going, its just that the kick needs work with EQ.

Beez

 

[Massive Master]

Yeah - It's really not bad in a "big picture' sort of way - A bit of compression on a few tracks would be a nice help... Not too much though, You've got instruments sort of "jumping out" at you once in a while - It's kinda cool - Too much compression will strip that away quickly...

Agreed on the kick also... It's not really overboard, but you might have a little luck adding a little "snap" to it - Find the "PING" frequency on the ride (somewhere between 4-6kHz) and add some of that frequency to the kick. Maybe quite a bit - Don't be shy if it takes 3-5dB before you can hear it clearly.

Again, don't overdo it - This is one of those things that you really don't notice by itself - It can just "magically" make the mix sond better.

Only other thing pulling at my ears... Mastering is going to exaggerate the verb a bit - You may want to trim it back a touch so it's not crazy after mastering...

John Scrip - www.massivemastering.com

 

[jdier]

Man, great help here. I really appreciate you two (john and beez) giving this a listen. I am still so brand new, but what you say makes sense. I will try it.

You know, at the end of the day this is a great learning experience. I am not getting paid, just using this to learn so when I start my project next month, I know what to do and not to do.

John, thanks for the note on the verb.

I really appreciate the help.

If I make some significant headway, I will post a new sample.

thank you again for taking the time.

Jim

 

[Massive Master]

Jim, if you're "brand new" at this and making mixes like that, I wouldn't worry too much - You're a natural.

A little polish on the finish... That's all.

John -

 

[jdier]

John,

I have read your posts before. The guy I am doing this for is in Chicago. I went to highschool with him at Buffalo Grove (Go Bison!)

We did all of the tracking in Crystal Lake area.

I will pass your name and website on to Dan Whitaker as an option for mastering.

Jim

 

[Ibrow]

Holy crap. I'll echo MM here, nice f'in job. You're just starting out? LOL! If that's starting, I'll be 75 before I have the balls to post one of my mixes. Thanks a lot pal.

The only thing I heard is the same as above, the kick sounds like it's broken. Fix that, keep it at the same level, and you'll be ready to master that thing.

How the hell do you get that "BIG" sound? That is the next thing I am going to work on. Good job!

 

[Massive Master]

Most of that "big sound" comes from everything before it - Good talent, good instruments, good signal path (notice I'm not saying "great" or "wonderful" here... It doesn't need to be perfect - It DOES need to be "non-irritating").

The rest is "art" -

John -

 

[jdier]

Ibrow,

Thanks for the nice comments. Remember that I cheated on that mix. I had guys who excel at their art, were ridiculously well prepared and knew each other and the songs extremely well.

They really made my part pretty easy.

I also think that since their expectations were so low (with this being the first time I recorded anything) that there was almost no pressure on me.

Thanks for the kind words.

Jim