Mixing: how long before your ears start lying to you?

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markmann

markmann

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I've been wondering how long others can mix before they lose perspective on what good tone is? For me it seems to be about an hour before changes I make begin having a negative effect on the mix. FYI, when I mix I am usually also adjusting EQ and time based effects. How are people that work in studios able to do it for many hours? If I take an hour or two break I'm good but I really wish I didn't have to.
 
I always mix at lower volume and I'm still only good for roughly an hour. At higher volume I'm sure it would be less. If I go too long, when I come back to it there are bits that really stick out in a bad way. I can usually correct things quickly but it's still a waste of valuable time.
 
I like to mix it up by checking 'where' my hearing is with a quick listen to a known track to see if I am off or more often I will switch between monitors, headphones and earbuds to see if I have lost sensitivity
 
Never actually recorded anything that sounded right.

Never have been PROUD of the recordings I made.

Never be jealous of anything I have, its not that special.

I got plenty of Nevers.
 
Hearing fatigue can occur after a few hours of listening to the same thing repeatedly, and this can result in either accepting something that has problems that you are no ;onger able to hear, or being increasingly unable to be satisified with what you are hearing.

But even without long hours of listening, your brain can ignore what your ears are trying to tell you. You can focus on minor issues that have no consequence for the eventual listener, while simultaneously, not hearing significant flaws that do affect the final result.
 
I dunno the time limit before my ears are shot, but with my analog work flow it’s always been kind of a mix as you go along.

Often times I have to trust my instincts as the first mix is usually the best.

The more I stray from that and try to ‘perfect’ the mix the worse it gets.
 
markmann said:
I've been wondering how long others can mix before they lose perspective on what good tone is? For me it seems to be about an hour before changes I make begin having a negative effect on the mix. FYI, when I mix I am usually also adjusting EQ and time based effects. How are people that work in studios able to do it for many hours? If I take an hour or two break I'm good but I really wish I didn't have to.
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They don't start lying - you become ear fatigued - when I was beginning I could go 4 or 5 hours - now I take a 20 minute break every hour. and only mix for 4 Hours total
- ears can't take that much even at the low volumes I mix at these days.
 
gecko zzed said:
Hearing fatigue can occur after a few hours of listening to the same thing repeatedly, and this can result in either accepting something that has problems that you are no ;onger able to hear, or being increasingly unable to be satisified with what you are hearing.

But even without long hours of listening, your brain can ignore what your ears are trying to tell you. You can focus on minor issues that have no consequence for the eventual listener, while simultaneously, not hearing significant flaws that do affect the final result.
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I didn't realize fatigue could cause what you hear to change but it makes sense. Your latter comment is closer to what happens many times for me. For example, I've been working on a song and I decided that I could improve the sound of the electric guitar so I duplicated the track and muted the original. I removed a bit of low mids which sounded better but then sounded like it had a little too much high end so I took out some upper mids. Definitely sounded even better but still could use a little more low end. Now it sounds perfect. I compare it to the original.... Nope, original is better!
 
My tinnitus makes mixing a chore at the best of times, but like others here, I don't go for too long and take breaks from it.

This is where the mp3 mixing clinic is so invaluable to me, combined with playing it on other systems and feedback from other people in general. I do try to mix fast though, that's
one piece of advice I learned on the Internet that has worked for me.

EL
 
For me, it's only when it's too loud. At lower levels I can make sensible decisions for all of the working day. As I got older, loud got more unpleasant and now I find I am sticking in ear plugs more and more, so I can go back to my modest level position, and be effective. Walking next door and having to stick them in is a real nuisance, but pretty vital. I still do the odd stint mixing for picture in tiny little spaces where the small speakers are wound up quite high, and there is continual chat from the comms - which you need to mentally filter - and as long as you keep everything reasonable, level wise, you can do a shift quite effectively. For me - the usual problem is with bass. Modest monitoring level and deep bass is tricky - so at the start I get that balance roughly done, then listen on my headphones (oddly DT100's) but I know what they sound like and they are sealed, so I get bass and kick drum balance pretty well pegged, then I take them off and see what kick and snare sound like on the small things at lower volume. Often the speakers are Genelecs, and appear to be a bit weak, bass wise - but I can hear what 'proper' mix level is, and just remember that on the output, there is plenty of bottom end - I just cannot hear it because of the speakers and the lower overall level.

What I cannot do is make sensible decisions when it is really loud.
 
It's about an hour for me (of just straight mixing: EQ, adding compression, reverb/delay) - before I start feeling "tunnel vision". It seems to always be clear to me - the moment I need to step away.
 
PorterhouseMusic said:
It's about an hour for me (of just straight mixing: EQ, adding compression, reverb/delay) - before I start feeling "tunnel vision". It seems to always be clear to me - the moment I need to step away.
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Tunnel vision is a good term. I think about that when I think I'm done with a mix but when I listen back weeks later I hear things that I don't like.
 
markmann said:
Tunnel vision is a good term. I think about that when I think I'm done with a mix but when I listen back weeks later I hear things that I don't like.
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Yeah - it's a good term to describe the loss off objectivity.
 
I would mix for about 45 minutes, then take a 15 minute break, get up and walk around. Then get back at it.

I could do that all day.
 
It is another order of SPL but my son has often told me that after 20 minutes in a rock band his hearing has degraded such that any "cork sniffin',valve-ampy snobbery" goes down the ****ter. He can play all the Queen/Stones/AC DC stuff but just hates what it does to his hearing.

This thread is a good place to remind folks of the value of calibrating their monitors and be VERY careful with headphone levels. I am clinically deaf (nothing past TWO kHz). This is medical, not SPL induced but then at 79 I count myself lucky to have retained as much hearing as I have.

Dave.
 
That's an interesting question. I don't mix loud. I read years ago from Harvey Gerst and others that one way around having an untreated room impinge on what you hear was to mix at low volumes. I also remember Gekko zzed many years ago sharing that things like furniture and bookshelves could make a difference and act as a poor man's 'treatment' - not to suggest people shouldn't treat their spaces but if it wasn't possible.......
So I don't mix loud. I've not really thought much about how long I mix for before my ears become ineffective. But when the time comes, I know. A lot of it depends on the length of the song, what is involved in the song, the time of day I start to mix, how fresh or tired I may be etc. If the song is one of those 15 minute + extravaganzas, no matter how fresh I feel going into it, it is going to take me 2 or 3 days. I make sure it does. Even if I've cleared 8 minutes of the song in less than an hour and I feel great, I'll still stop and return to it the next day. I mix in sections and join as I go.
Some of my 3 and 4 minute songs have taken me comparatively longer to mix than the 22-minute ones, ie the time I'd spend on each day. And sometimes I've found myself really tired, having been at it for 6 or 7 hours. But it was a short or short-ish song so my way of thinking is that I can finish it in one sitting.
Eric Malone said:
I do try to mix fast though
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Same here. No sense in hanging around. But still, on those ultra lengthy songs, 3 days may be fast !
 
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