Using mixer inserts as direct outs to audio card?

[bhuether]

I have been doing this for a while using a normal TRS cable. I plug it in half way and it works. But everything I read says you are supposed to be doing this with TS cable. So now I am confused. Further, I read that the insert direct out method is a cleaner signal than a dedicated direct out from a mixer. I need to replace my mixer and not sure if I should look for one with direct outs or get a cheaper mixer with just inserts. I am recording with a lynx2 sound card which has balanced inputs. I just want the best quality signal getting to the sound card, and want to reduce possibility of addded noise (hum). I noticed the allen and heath mixwizard 12 has direct outs. But it is twice the price of other similar mixers with no direct out.

Anyway, price isn't necesarilly a major factor here. I am willing to pay an extra few hunbdred for a mixer if it yields superior output to a card like the lynx.

Thoughts appreciated!

Brian

 

[mjbphotos]

Why do you want to use a mixer at all? It's just adding another device in the signal chain that can add noise to the signal.

To answer your first question - the insert (out) will provide a cleaner channel than the main ouput because that signal has gone through the channel and the main circuitry/controls.

 

[MarkCSmith]

I just want the best quality signal getting to the sound card, and want to reduce possibility of addded noise (hum).

Then you should consider removing the mixer from the equation altogether. Why do you bother with it?

 

[bhuether]

Well the thing is I often just jam and not record. So I like to run mics into the mixer then use send/return for fx. And I have several amps and so I don't use the amps' send/returns. And when I record I like to hear the fxs, but record dry. So given all that, I think a mixer is a must. Ideally I would use a 4 or so channel line mixer (I use sepaeate mic preamps) that has direct outs on the channels, plus a send/return. But searching online for hours I can not find such a product!

 

[Ethan Winer]

Ideally I would use a 4 or so channel line mixer (I use sepaeate mic preamps) that has direct outs on the channels, plus a send/return. But searching online for hours I can not find such a product!

The Mackie 1202 series mixers have line inputs and also direct outs and / or inserts (basically the same thing). If you have a decent mixer, you don't need external preamps. Here's how I did my setup, and it works fine:

Using a Mixer with a DAW

--Ethan

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Why do you want to use a mixer at all? It's just adding another device in the signal chain that can add noise to the signal.

To answer your first question - the insert (out) will provide a cleaner channel than the main ouput because that signal has gone through the channel and the main circuitry/controls.

The Lynx has no mic preamps. A mixer would provide preamps.

Insert sends are generally immediately after the mic preamps (and perhaps the HPF), so there isn't a whole lot of other circuitry there to add noise. The OP could use standalone mic preamps but without spending a fair bit of cash I doubt they will be substantially better than something like a Mackie or small Soundcraft, and a mixer offers more monitoring options.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

I have been doing this for a while using a normal TRS cable.

Inserts on any board you're likely to be using are unbalanced. There is no advantage to using cables meant for balanced signal. Use TS cables, or better yet build yourself a couple of insert tap cables.

Insert tap cable:

Insert end: TRS, conductor to tip and ring, shield to sleeve

Sound card end: TS, conductor to tip, shield to sleeve.

 

[Beck]

The reason the TRS cable is working is because you're not fully seating it. What you really need is a TRS plug on the mixer end and a TS plug on the recorder end, whether that's a sound card, tape deck or whatever. The Tip and Ring should be shorted inside the connector so the signal continues through the mixer for monitoring, etc. It depends on the design of the board whether you'll have use of the mixer's EQ and AUX sends. Some insert points come right after the EQ section and other designs place the insert pre-EQ. Same with AUX/EFX sends. The position of an insert in the signal path is always pre-fader, so you won't be able to use the main channel faders on boards that have them either. So its best to get a mixer with direct outs if you can.

On paper the insert points are cleaner because they go through fewer amp stages within the mixer, but if you have a good mixer the difference is negligible and I'd rather have use of the fader and other features.

Ideally you should have enough main program Busses (4 or 8 usually does the trick depending on how many different inputs you have on your sound card and how many sources you really need to have a separate track). Then you don't have to concern yourself with direct outs. I rarely use direct outputs.

 

[bhuether]

Well, now I have a greater problem. I am hearing a radio station faintly through my monitors...

The pres I use are great river 1nv and RNP.

 

[Beck]

Well, now I have a greater problem. I am hearing a radio station faintly through my monitors...

The pres I use are great river 1nv and RNP.

Best to start a new thread for your radio interference issue. Best for you and best for people searching the topic in the future.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Which version of the Lynx 2 do you have, the A, B or C?

Anyway, you could hook the preamps directly to your Lynx and use the built in digital mixer. Use your analog mixer just to drive headphones and monitors. I have no problem with mixers but I wonder if you really need one here.

 

[mjbphotos]

The Lynx has no mic preamps. A mixer would provide preamps.

He says he used outboard mic preamps, not the mixer preamps. But also explained he uses the mixer for monitoring/FX while 'jamming'. I'd still avoid the mixer entirely when recording.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

He says he used outboard mic preamps, not the mixer preamps. But also explained he uses the mixer for monitoring/FX while 'jamming'. I'd still avoid the mixer entirely when recording.

I see that now. I guess it's a matter of how important the monitoring options are. Splitting the outputs of the external preamps would allow using the mixer for the monitor path only, and one of the preamps has a built in split output already.