Converting Mixer Unbalanced Direct Outs as balanced line inputs to Audio Interface Analog Mixers

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sumitsimlai

Member
My two Behringer mixers QX2442USB and Xenyx 2442FX, both have 8 UNBALANCED LINE LEVEL Direct Outs each, which I intend feeding into 8 balanced inputs of my audio interface for direct recording. Trying to figure out whether there is a way to convert unbalanced line signals to balanced LINE signals. I do have two of Behringer DI800s, but what I understood from the manual is that the converted signal is a mic signal (low). I can't say whether it would be good or not to plug converted signals (mic level) into an audio interface using XLR (balanced).

I am sure this is something being faced by some who have mixers with unbalanced direct outs, wanting to record those signals through balanced audio interface channels to a computer.

Would be nice to hear from someone with similar experience and solution deployed.

Regards
 
A rake of transformers of course but that is expensive and even the best ones have some impact on fidelity and can pick up hum. Lot of work but the "Spark Fun" modules are very good.

But, if those direct outs are on jacks there is every possibility that they are on TRS "impedance balanced" jacks and if not this can easily be arranged. You don't get the 6dB level boost (don't with traffs anyway) but you do get the noise suppression advantages.
Got to go out but be back in two or so with more info if needed.

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
A rake of transformers of course but that is expensive and even the best ones have some impact on fidelity and can pick up hum. Lot of work but the "Spark Fun" modules are very good.

But, if those direct outs are on jacks there is every possibility that they are on TRS "impedance balanced" jacks and if not this can easily be arranged. You don't get the 6dB level boost (don't with traffs anyway) but you do get the noise suppression advantages.
Got to go out but be back in two or so with more info if needed.

Dave.
Click to expand...
Thanks Dave.

The manual specifies all 8 Direct Outputs are TS Unbalanced type.

When you say a rake of transformers, does it imply an 8 channel DI box? If yes, then that's exactly what I have - the Behringer DI800. My intent is to use these DI800s (2 of them, one for each of 2 mixers I have) to connect the Direct Outs to Audio Interface.
 
Yes, that "DI" box seems to be a collection of active unbalanced to balanced amplifiers and would seem to do what you want. I put DI in " " because strictly speaking a DI box has a high input impedance (as this does) and a very low output impedance (same here) but at microphone level. The DI800 seems to deliver line level signals which should be fine for your needs.

Dave.
 

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sumitsimlai said:
My two Behringer mixers QX2442USB and Xenyx 2442FX, both have 8 UNBALANCED LINE LEVEL Direct Outs each, which I intend feeding into 8 balanced inputs of my audio interface for direct recording. Trying to figure out whether there is a way to convert unbalanced line signals to balanced LINE signals. I do have two of Behringer DI800s, but what I understood from the manual is that the converted signal is a mic signal (low). I can't say whether it would be good or not to plug converted signals (mic level) into an audio interface using XLR (balanced).

I am sure this is something being faced by some who have mixers with unbalanced direct outs, wanting to record those signals through balanced audio interface channels to a computer.

Would be nice to hear from someone with similar experience and solution deployed.
Click to expand...
Why aren’t you using the QX2442USB usb outputs - it does Multitrack I thought.
 
ecc83 said:
Yes, that "DI" box seems to be a collection of active unbalanced to balanced amplifiers and would seem to do what you want. I put DI in " " because strictly speaking a DI box has a high input impedance (as this does) and a very low output impedance (same here) but at microphone level. The DI800 seems to deliver line level signals which should be fine for your needs.

Dave.
Click to expand...
Thanks Dave. I too thought so. My only doubt was about the input section of the DI800, whether or not it is configured to accept line inputs coming out or the mixer. But if it can, then the problem is solved. My understanding was that the D.I. is particularly meant to process guitar pickup / keyboard type of inputs and convert them to mic level outputs, but I might me completely wrong.
 
sumitsimlai said:
Will look into this but the studio is under construction and I’m at the planning stage.
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OK, well Tim and BSG make a very valid point, very often such a direct connections works perfectly well but..."studio under construction" says to me that you are looking for a specification a cut above the average 'home bod' job? If so then you do not want to risk degrading your signal so early in the recording process.

You will in any case surely need to test out the setup to ensure you have the lowest noise and distortion and that the frequency response is not restricted? I can recommend Right Mark Audio Analyser, free software that will allow you to test these parameters. That Behryy box is I am sure decent enough as a 'problem solver' but is not something I am sure that the "Pros" would like in their primary signal path.

"Impedance" balancing cannot introduce distortion or response problems, ground loops might be a problem but they are ALWAYS a possibility in any audio system!

Dave.
 
If his standards are that high, why is he using two Behringer analog consoles? If the Behringer mixers represent the level of expectation and budget, I'd start with the cheapest solution and move up until I found what worked. He already has the active DI thing, but I'd be leaning toward fewer potential points of failure.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
If his standards are that high, why is he using two Behringer analog consoles? If the Behringer mixers represent the level of expectation and budget, I'd start with the cheapest solution and move up until I found what worked. He already has the active DI thing, but I'd be leaning toward fewer potential points of failure.
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A very fair point! But I have found in the ten years or so I have been on forums that people do not seem to understand the "Principle Of The Weakest Link" . One thing always astonishes me? A bod will come up with a phantom power problem with a $1700 mic and a $1000 interface and it turns out that they own just ONE fekking XLR cable!

The other 'failure to engage' is with monitoring. Endless words about AIs and mics but rarely any consideration as to how the music is going to be critically monitored. Headphones can be useful to a degree* but they need to be pretty expensive types.

*Yes, I know! ENDless debate!


Dave.
 
The real solution? Step up to better gear. For example, a rack of preamps (Grace, Millennia, API, UA) and a good headphone amp seems more appropriate. Or at least just use a decent digital mixer as your interface.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
The real solution? Step up to better gear. For example, a rack of preamps (Grace, Millennia, API, UA) and a good headphone amp seems more appropriate. Or at least just use a decent digital mixer as your interface.
Click to expand...
Cranbourne Audio make some excellent pre amps at very competitive prices.

I have no connection with the company.

Dave.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
If his standards are that high, why is he using two Behringer analog consoles? If the Behringer mixers represent the level of expectation and budget, I'd start with the cheapest solution and move up until I found what worked. He already has the active DI thing, but I'd be leaning toward fewer potential points of failure.
Click to expand...
Yep. Again: just plug the balanced lines into unbalanced jacks. I about guarantee you that the Behringer (I've owned a lot of their mixers) says "bal or unbal" on the jack bay in the unit(s) somewhere.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
If his standards are that high, why is he using two Behringer analog consoles? If the Behringer mixers represent the level of expectation and budget, I'd start with the cheapest solution and move up until I found what worked. He already has the active DI thing, but I'd be leaning toward fewer potential points of failure.
Click to expand...
TimOD said:
Yep. Again: just plug the balanced lines into unbalanced jacks. I about guarantee you that the Behringer (I've owned a lot of their mixers) says "bal or unbal" on the jack bay in the unit(s) somewhere.
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I've been following along, here and that 'OtherPlace. :>)
This concern -apparently part in 'prep of a build out -has some stuff, waiting on some(?) not clear exactly?
Part next; For some 20 to 30 feet all of the track lines -mixer(s) > A/D's seeing some nasty stuff apparently.
Now, my retired ass knows enough to know when I'm outside my experience- and happy to say so. :rolleyes:
So 20-30 feet enough to care? Quoting from the other place here..
https://gearspace.com/board/showpost.php?p=17020641&postcount=11
David Rick;17020641 said:
Unbalanced line-level signals get plugged into balanced line inputs every day, in A-list studios and network broadcast facilities alike. It's a fundamental requirement for balanced inputs that they permit that.
The only time you need to do something else is when running unbalanced signals hundreds of feet, because there's potential for ground loop problems.
David
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​

But now, the Fun Stuff.
-At both sites, hundreds ..and way more suggested on 'fixes.
-My involvement led smack into an old favorite. Used to hate Behringer. TimOD you should get a kick out of this.
-Along the way realized instead these $$$'s in fixes, Sumitsimlai at least started on the right track!
-And.. off I go, downloading these 'Behringer's manuals.. Geezus.. for sucks sake. One didn't even list some it's 'featured outputs. Hey behringer.. You ripped off Mackie for years. Too bad you never noticed how well they did our manuals. :facepalm:
-Fine, lesson learned -again.
-Found Yamahas and a Mackie the 1642VLZ4.
https://mackie.com/img/file_resources/1642VLZ4_OM.pdf
-Sumitsimlai, check this out. Around $600, less used.. Balanced- Direct outs (16!) and Sub busses (4!). Score!
-But there's another angle here.
-With Sub Groups (busses) -assignable- as needed- as you're actually using them.. brings the option of not having to run all your track lines in the first place.
 
sumitsimlai said:
Thanks Dave. I too thought so. My only doubt was about the input section of the DI800, whether or not it is configured to accept line inputs coming out or the mixer. But if it can, then the problem is solved. My understanding was that the D.I. is particularly meant to process guitar pickup / keyboard type of inputs and convert them to mic level outputs, but I might me completely wrong.
Click to expand...
Its an end user solution that will work, however, the quality will very in price. Like the Jenson DIN-PB which is one I use in theater installs that works really well, but it may be more cost effective to choose some other piece of equipment than the cheap mixer after spending ~$800 on a set of signal transformers. There are cheaper alternatives, like custom H pads, but I never seen an end user item sold but rather built especially for the equipment set.
 
drtechno said:
Which interface you are trying to use? I know of several solutions, but it all depends on the interface.
Click to expand...
I’m using Behringer U-Phoria 1820 and Presonus Studio 1824c, one with each PC. The third uses an E-EMU 1212M PCI based DAS with Sync Daughtercard and breakout box. The fourth PC uses WaMi Rack 192X and the Mia 2496. All legacy stuff.
 
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