Tuning pegs

[muttley600]

Its really the same thing a locking nut does....only its in the tuner...it works.

What?

You said this....

They have a locking mechanism that will keep them from slipping at the tuners...you have to fine tune alot less onstage between tunes...you can even put in a floyd and not need to install a locking nut with them.

I asked what slipping you were talking about? As gunn pointed out strings do NOT slip at the post of the tuner. I was giving you the chance to say so before taking you to task on it.

A worm gear and pinion post are nothing like a locking nut. What is your point?

 

[darrin_h2000]

Because there is still slippage at the posts...locking them at the posts prevents that durring playing and that keeps your strings in better tune...great for those stock strat bridges.
A picture is worth a 1000 words here...go look them up online and you will see how they work yourself.

Now your opinion that guitars always stay in tune would surprise many working musicians out there...before you take me to task as you put it...just ask any guitarist.

 

[Sirnothingness]

I start out of tune and hope that it eventually goes into tune. And if it doesn't, then that's ok too.

 

[Dogbreath]

I've installed the Sperzel locking tuners on 2 of my guitars and am impressed. Good tuners.

But, I had to drill out the holes a little bigger on both guitars and there's one more small hole you need to drill for head alignment makin sure the tuners line up right.

 

[acidrock]

It's difficult to enlarge the holes with a twist drill without doing damage (in my limited experience.) I use a reamer.
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You just have to go slow and take what the drill gives you,use a sharp bit.

I'm trying to avoid that by getting the right part in the first place.I do repair work and while I do make parts "fit",I'll always take the right part first.

 

[acidrock]

If you do change tuning pegs keep the old ones so as if and when you sell the guitar put the originals back on. Keeps the guitar factory and you keep the good pegs for an other project.

I'll hang onto the stuff for sure,but I'm keeping the guitar.I chasnged the pickups which just weren't doing it for me and a few cosmetic changes and I'm really liking the guitar.I like garage band/alternative looking guitars.

 

[muttley600]

Because there is still slippage at the posts...locking them at the posts prevents that durring playing and that keeps your strings in better tune...great for those stock strat bridges.
A picture is worth a 1000 words here...go look them up online and you will see how they work yourself.

Now your opinion that guitars always stay in tune would surprise many working musicians out there...before you take me to task as you put it...just ask any guitarist.

Dude I have seen and worked on more guitars in my life than you will ever play.

To deal with your points one at a time even though they have been discussed here many times.

Because there is still slippage at the posts...locking them at the posts prevents that durring playing and that keeps your strings in better tune

No there is no slipping at the post. It just doesn't happen. This has been pointed out several times in this thread and hundreds of times in others.

.great for those stock strat bridges.

WTF has a "stock strat bridge" have to do with a machine head?

A picture is worth a 1000 words here..

I have fitted what now must be dozens of them I don't need pictures thanks. You can believe what you like about them I always tell my customers the real deal. If they want them that's fine, but if they believe that it may help other perceived or real problems to do with the setup I put them right.

.go look them up online and you will see how they work yourself.

.before you take me to task as you put it...just ask any guitarist.

I hate blowing it here but I have conversations daily with guitar players who you have only ever heard on CD.

My advice was aimed at acidrock. When you posted some dubious content I gave you the chance to sit back and reconsider. You chose not to. Bad call.

 

[muttley600]

I'll hang onto the stuff for sure,but I'm keeping the guitar.I chasnged the pickups which just weren't doing it for me and a few cosmetic changes and I'm really liking the guitar.I like garage band/alternative looking guitars.

Go for it mate. If you can find some Gotoh 510's that will fit I highly recommend them. If you are unsure them PM me some details of the existing tuners and I'll look into it for you.

 

[darrin_h2000]

Dude I have seen and worked on more guitars in my life than you will ever play....blah...blah...blah.

Shit dude...I have probubly owned guitars in the triple digits...the Musicians friend distribution center is right here and I have made a buisness out of picking up instruments and fixing them for resale.

And during my tenure working in radio I have met hundreds of guys you hear on the radio...so Im not impressed there either.

So you have something against locking tuners...BFD...you dont have to be a complete asshole

 

[ggunn]

Its really the same thing a locking nut does....only its in the tuner...it works.

No, it's not. The nut can be problematic on a floating bridge guitar because the string slips back and forth through the slots as the tremelo is used. The problem is that the string slippage has some hysteresis due to friction, i.e., it doesn't completely return to where it was; the guitar is out of tune because of tension retained by the nut.

There are two ways to counteract it: 1) you can lubricate the nut or install rollers in the nut and string trees so the string will return completely to having balanced tension on both sides of the nut after you use the tremelo, or 2) you can lock the strings down at the nut so that they can't slip through it at all. Both approaches have their pluses and minuses, but neither have anything at all to do with what you can do with tuners, locking or otherwise.

 

[acidrock]

FWIW,I didn't have any slippage problems,they just looked crappy.


Also,I wanted to title the thread "Tuners" but I didn't want it to be confused with tuners,you dig?

 

[muttley600]

Shit dude...I have probubly owned guitars in the triple digits...the Musicians friend distribution center is right here and I have made a buisness out of picking up instruments and fixing them for resale.

And during my tenure working in radio I have met hundreds of guys you hear on the radio...so Im not impressed there either.

So you have something against locking tuners...BFD...you dont have to be a complete asshole

I have nothing against locking nuts' I have some thing against twats who say things like.

Sperzels keep your ax in tune better than any other tuners...look into those.

They have a locking mechanism that will keep them from slipping at the tuners...you have to fine tune alot less onstage between tunes...you can even put in a floyd and not need to install a locking nut with them.

Its really the same thing a locking nut does....only its in the tuner...it works.

I didn't start by being a complete asshole. I gave you a chance to reconsider. See post #14.

Frankly if that is your level of understanding you know shit about guitars. I'm calling you out.

 

[muttley600]

FWIW,I didn't have any slippage problems,they just looked crappy.


Also,I wanted to title the thread "Tuners" but I didn't want it to be confused with tuners,you dig?

There is a reason you wouldn't notice any slippage and that is because there isn't any.

Yes mate those that DO work on guitars daily for a living are right there with you, we know what a tuner is, or did you mean tuner. Thats why we call them machine heads.

 

[muttley600]

No, it's not. The nut can be problematic on a floating bridge guitar because the string slips back and forth through the slots as the tremelo is used. The problem is that the string slippage has some hysteresis due to friction, i.e., it doesn't completely return to where it was; the guitar is out of tune because of tension retained by the nut.

There are two ways to counteract it: 1) you can lubricate the nut or install rollers in the nut and string trees so the string will return completely to having balanced tension on both sides of the nut after you use the tremelo, or 2) you can lock the strings down at the nut so that they can't slip through it at all. Both approaches have their pluses and minuses, but neither have anything at all to do with what you can do with tuners, locking or otherwise.

He knows this having owned guitars in the three digit margin and fixing them up for resale etc.

You know what fudges me about these types of bullshitters is that it isn't even a matter of opinion or debate. Just basic high school physics is all that is needed to work out how these things work.

Any hoo your original post and subsequent ones are still correct.

 

[darrin_h2000]

He knows this having owned guitars in the three digit margin and fixing them up for resale etc.

You know what fudges me about these types of bullshitters is that it isn't even a matter of opinion or debate. Just basic high school physics is all that is needed to work out how these things work.

Well you have a right to your opinion...but most companies like schaller...grover...grotoh...have gone to adding the option of locking tuners based on the fact that if you bend alot or try to use a stock fender floating bridge (Which should just be locked down anyway) that its going to mess with the windings around the peg, and it will loosen the string and try to change the position...and that is simple HS physics...what you want is to have very few windings and the strings locked into the peg to eliminate the string from slipping in the peg.

Id normally just take your word for it...but either I have to believe you and all those tuner peg manufacturers are wrong...or put my faith in all those manufacturers who have locking designs.

 

[muttley600]

Well you have a right to your opinion...but most companies like schaller...grover...grotoh...have gone to adding the option of locking tuners based on the fact that if you bend alot or try to use a stock fender floating bridge (Which should just be locked down anyway) that its going to mess with the windings around the peg, and it will loosen the string and try to change the position...and that is simple HS physics...what you want is to have very few windings and the strings locked into the peg to eliminate the string from slipping in the peg.

Id normally just take your word for it...but either I have to believe you and all those tuner peg manufacturers are wrong...or put my faith in all those manufacturers who have locking designs.

It aint opinion, ask any engineer or physicist. You ain't disagreeing with me you're disagreeing with them dumb ass.

You haven't got the first idea what you're talking about so just STFU.

 

[Dani Pace]

Well you have a right to your opinion...but most companies like schaller...grover...grotoh...have gone to adding the option of locking tuners based on the fact that if you bend alot or try to use a stock fender floating bridge (Which should just be locked down anyway) that its going to mess with the windings around the peg, and it will loosen the string and try to change the position...and that is simple HS physics...what you want is to have very few windings and the strings locked into the peg to eliminate the string from slipping in the peg.

Id normally just take your word for it...but either I have to believe you and all those tuner peg manufacturers are wrong...or put my faith in all those manufacturers who have locking designs.

I had the chance to read the warantee on the new Schaller locking nut machines yesterday, same as on their regular machines. Guaranties the materals and workmanship, doesn't say one word about staying in tune any better. The package says so but not the warantee.

 

[NCdan]

if you bend alot or try to use a stock fender floating bridge (Which should just be locked down anyway) that its going to mess with the windings around the peg

Tuners don't slip, period. But, too many windings can cause the strings to go out of tune. I have no idea if physics agrees with that or not, but I know from experience that the less windings I have around the tunings posts, the more in tune the guitar stays. I have no idea why that is.

 

[muttley600]

Tuners don't slip, period. But, too many windings can cause the strings to go out of tune. I have no idea if physics agrees with that or not, but I know from experience that the less windings I have around the tunings posts, the more in tune the guitar stays. I have no idea why that is.

Too many windings will result in the string taking longer to settle in. Once it has settled in, stretched all it's going to, and found it's point of rest it would stay there. Most of the slight changes in pitch are due to fluctuations in the instruments timbers due to moisture content and other materials due to heat. All you need is 2-3 windings on each tuner post.

 

[Greg_L]

you dont have to be a complete asshole

You should heed your own advice, dumbfuck.