To Pre or Not to Pre

[participant]

Ok... I wanted to respond to this earlier, and your latest post kinda prodded a bit...

Don't wanna rain on the parade, but this sounds like voodoo to me. Makes sense on the first pass, but then start thinking and the brakes start squealing

I've now got a 1NV, and it is everything I hoped it would be...and then some.

But let's just say that a track through takes up 'way more' sonic space than a 'pinhead'. Yes it's focused, but it's also BIG.

Just means that the fader is up; push it down, the track "shrinks"... the whole while remaining focused.

Could stuff three Mackie tracks in there. And that isn't just smoke and mirrors. The NV takes a big chunck out. But it is superb.

Cool, but that's what reverb/panning/EQ are for, no? Those things move tracks 1) front-to-back 2) left-to-right 3) up-and-down in the soundstage. Level should change the "size".

I don't think that cost of a preamp, plays into the soundscape size at all.

Nah, that would be too simplistic.

Mackie takes a tiny bite out, is relatively focused, and is small.

Should hear what Fletcher thinks about Mackies... something-on-a-stick, IIRC... could have bought a used 1402-VLZ pro yesterday for $229... passed it by on Fletcher's advice. (Also have done some critical listening, and the tracks definitely don't sound as nice as a Great River/Phoenix Audio/API)

You don't need big bucks for BIG either. The Blue Tube sucks, but if you want your soundscape devoured, it'll do the trick.

Well, isn't that the point of what we're saying? Sure, it will eat up space... but it will do it in a big, "cloudy", unfocused way (well... relative to something like an Avalon 737 or MP-1NV...)

Transformers and tubes in the more pricey stuff do act like compressors--so maybe that's where the focus and snugness come in

There has to be something to this, too... it probably ALL figures in. In the end, however, the more focused tracks are easier to mix. Where they COME from (cheap pre/expensive pre) is an unknown quantity. But the concept, IMO, is bourne out by critical listening.

Would be really cool if Waves would make a plugin that showed how much space a track takes up in a mix... it could be calibrated using a pure 1kHz tone (generated on the computer) which would also be run thru the pre. Depending on how hard you hit the pre, and how much gain you add to the signal, the results should change.

I'm tryin' to get Dan back in here (PM'ed him)...


Chad

 

[jet-rocker]

I dunno. I still say with the NV you're swinging a bigger bat to begin with.

When you pan, say bass, 25% left, it's not just occupying that space. That's just where it is concentrated. You'll find some of that bass probably all the way out to 75% right. There is always overlap, and when you are dealing with chunky sounds, overlapping in the same frequency ranges, there isn't as much space to workwith.

That was a great deal on a 1402. I find that my little 1202 functions just fine, nothing special--nothing all too horrible either.

-Jett

 

[Dot]

participant, that's an interesting visual there. Thanks for taking the time to make that. I had a good consversation with Paul Wolff at API yesterday, and he went into some of the rocket science behind this. I could get into it a bit, but someone like Paul is much better.

If you guys get a chance, please stop by the new forum for The Listening Sessions. We're talking about a lot of pre stuff over there. I just got the fourm started yesterday. We'll have some of the big mic pre designers coming in, so you can pick their brains.

I don't mean to be a stranger and I really like HomeRec. It's just that these fourms are so slow on my computer. Sometimes I can wait over a minute for a page to load. I'll still pop in, but not as much as I'd like.

Jet, I agree w/ you that the 1NV has a "big" sound - and it achives that by starting out as a very small, focues sound in the soundstage – and then moves out. My "dollar bill" metaphor and participant's visual are still only two-dimensional. If we walk over to the side so that we can "see" the sound coming out of the speakers and into the room, the 1NV would get big. What keeps the "cheap" preamp from getting really big is that it's unfocused to start with so it never creates enough energy in a small enough space to allow it to be projected out into space with any real "oomph".

The metaphor is similar to a laser – in which a very strong light is achieved by continuously focusing and focusing finer and finer until it comes out into free space. An unfocused light – like a cheap pre – will have its energy dissipate quickly.

 

[participant]

I don't mean to be a stranger and I really like HomeRec. It's just that these fourms are so slow on my computer. Sometimes I can wait over a minute for a page to load. I'll still pop in, but not as much as I'd like.

Actually you're in luck, Dan! Dragon just moved HR.com to its own dedicated dual-processor machine. Now it smokes!




but no smoking in the control room