" Tick....tick....tick...."

  • Thread starter Thread starter Zgrimes
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Do you have any electric fences near by? The kind used for cattle or horses, maybe even the kind that you bury under ground to keep dogs in your yard. These kind of fences can wreak heck with electronics if they are shorted out somewhere.

Did this ever get answered? I tried to read through all of the nonsense but it is too early! LOL. I had the same problem when I used to play my guitar back on the farm. Had to turn of the electric fence to record which caused my 145 head of albino buffalo to wander all over the place. But I got some great sessions! Anyway, I would check it out.
 
Zgrimes,

I did a little reasearch on Doppler radar systems - and have some food for thought for you.

Doppler Radar pulses are not directly correlated the way that electrical current is - (i.e.: 60 cps for US Ac Electrical Power )

Radar sends out a pulse - a ping if you wish - which travels at a particular speed - hits an object and disperses with some of the signal returning to the source. They measure the time lag of the return signal and divide the time from send to receive - run some quick math - and determine the distance from the object to the transmitter.

But - the doppler system uses a modulating bandwidth in it's transmissions, and a stationary object will have a different frequency relationship to the doppler transmiter depending on it's distance from the source.

So the doppler is not transmitting in 55 cpm (cycle per minte) frequency - the answer to your question is going to be "no".

That doesn't necessarily mean that it is not the problem - just that it is not as easy to identify as you might think.

Rod
 
Did this ever get answered? I tried to read through all of the nonsense but it is too early! LOL. I had the same problem when I used to play my guitar back on the farm. Had to turn of the electric fence to record which caused my 145 head of albino buffalo to wander all over the place. But I got some great sessions! Anyway, I would check it out.

Zgrimes,

are you sure none of them are lit? A look at the design of these fences indicates that they generally cycle somewhere around 1 to 2 seconds (depending on the namufacturer) and 60 cycles per min is real close to your 55 - it isn't a huge reach to picture some company putting out a unit that was within 92% of a 60 cycle spec...... which you give you exactly your 55 cycle signal.

Just another thought

So far the only thing that seems pretty much positive here is that your problem is not a ground loop or in any way related to the power company.

Rod
 
Zgrimes,

are you sure none of them are lit? A look at the design of these fences indicates that they generally cycle somewhere around 1 to 2 seconds (depending on the namufacturer) and 60 cycles per min is real close to your 55 - it isn't a huge reach to picture some company putting out a unit that was within 92% of a 60 cycle spec...... which you give you exactly your 55 cycle signal.

Just another thought

So far the only thing that seems pretty much positive here is that your problem is not a ground loop or in any way related to the power company.

Rod


I seem to remember having to totally unplug the fence instead of just turning them off in order to get rid of the click.
 
FWIW I had a fence that got hit with lightning and shorted out the fence controller. Then the controller was sending voltage to the grounding rod which was being picked up by anything in our house that had a speaker in it. The first thing we did was to check the fence to see if we had proper voltage and it showed over 9000 volts like it was supposed to. So we were perplexed because this usually only happened if the fence was shorted out somewhere (sending voltage to ground). We lived with this for months until we decided to buy a new controller to see if that would improve things and it did.

We only found out the fencer had been hit with lightning when we took it to see if it could be repaired.

When I built my studio I wanted to make sure that nothing would pickup the electric fence or any other interference so we did allot of grounding and running things on their own breakers. The very first day I hooked things up I had the fencer TIKING through my monitors. I was so pissed! Later I chased it down to one bad cable I had that was picking up the interference. Changed that cable and everything was fine.

Still once in awhile someone will come in the studio with a bad cable and it will pick up that tik tik tik , I just have them change cables and all is well.
 
ok, Just wanna say one more time that's it's great to have you guys on my side. I shoulda come here years ago.

First, I guess, no, I'm not absolutely positive that there are no operating e-fences in the area. When I said no before, I meant that the fences that are really close, 40-50 yards are not lit, but as I think I mentioned before, this is cattle country, and there's fences all over the county. The next closest fences from me are more like 100-150 yards away......could that screw me up? That far away? I'd just go up there and touch them, (I'm from farm country too) to see if they're lit, rather than leave the question in the air for you guys to deal with, but I'm disabled, hiking around is really tough for me, and the wife won't grab em for me. :) I do have a buddy who would help me out with this, if you guys think that could be a problem, that far away.....hmmmmm.

Yes! I'm familiar with the guitar nuts website, and I've been planning to shield all my guitars as soon as possible, but since we've moved in here, we've been pretty busy trying to make this thing livable. Could be next winter before I get to that project....Does the paint idea really work? Or should I plan to do metal shielding in my cavities. hmm again.

and YES! again. Thanks for looking up the radar data Rod. That's all starting to come back to me now. I remember reading about it years ago. Cakewalk's ancestors invented it back in WWII, cuz the Germans were sneaking across the Channel and bombing the hell out of them. Yes. A "ping" goes out, returns, and they time the trip, resulting in an accurate gauge of distance. (Sonar, underwater radar, works on the same idea, even with the fish finder in my 16 ft johnboat.) I'll need to do some more reading, and refresh my memory on this stuff. (whodathunkit..for a project recording studio.....RAdar.) Ya lost me though, when you started talkin bandwidth....See, it was my thinking that this thing is sending out a signal. Yes. But it's also a sweeping signal, cuz the thing is spinning around. You can see it on our local TV weather, sending a white line around on the map, across the county, with the center point being at MY freakin house. So, I was thinking not in electriclal terms, but mechanical ones. I was wondering if the devise itself is spinning at 55 rpm, and generating the strongest signal as it passed over my trailer.....I dunno...
and YES one more time. I didn't want to complicate the issue earlier, but my 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock positions face either ends of my trailer precisely. 3 and 9 face the sides. The $#^%$#@ Doppler is at about 2 o'clock, so what you said about my trailer acting as an antena jives perfectly with that...
Right?
I am absoluyely elated that I don't have a ground loop problem. Ever crawled under an old trailer? It's about 2.5 feet off the ground, and I'm claustrophobic as hell, but that's where I'd need to go in order to investigate the wiring. It's all under the floor. We have everything from Black Widow and Brown Recluse spiders, to rattlers, and they all love it down there. You guys have saved me a real nightmare.

So it seems to me, that we've got it narrowed down pretty well, and here's a list of what I need to do.

Check e-fences. How far away? ....wonder how I'm gonna get the local ranchers to unPLug their fences !! ...hmmm. Don't think that's gonna happen..
.......maybe I could get them to let me install some knife switches...keep in touch with them as to when they're grazing stock....again though, how far away?

When I get all the shiddy old paneling torn down, I'm gonn make sure every panel of the trailers outer skin is grounded to the trailer's frame. Reason being, they come from the factory painted on one side, so there could be a loss of conductivity at each seam. Then I'm gonna check the grounding of my power, and make sure that the trailer's frame is grounded. There is a grounding rod pounded into the ground at one end of the trailer, with a ground wire attached to it, but I'll need to crawl under to make sure the connection to the frame is good.

So, really, the most encouraging idea here, is the idea of shielding the cavities on my instruments. I have yet to fire up my recording gear, but there doesn't seem to be a problem with EMI/RFI with our stereo gear, and no "tick" In fact, the power seems to be pretty clean. Since my guitar amps are going to be my worst offenders, maybe shielding my pick-up cavities will produce a result that is acceptable for recording....no? ( IhopeIhopeIhope )When we moved here, my biggest worry was the three uninsulated power lines crossing the property, 25 yards from my studio room. 30KV each. Never even considered fences, or RAdar......

did I forget anything?.....

If nothing else, this sure has been interesting. Thanks again to all, for all the help !!
Z
 
check out all of your cable routing. Make sure that your signal cables are not running parallel with your power cables. If they have to cross, make sure that they cross at a 90 degree angle. Sometimes, it can be as simple as that.
 
Hey Thunder33. Sorry about all the nonsense. It did get out of hand I guess, but please check back to post 23;24. No parallel cables. You and bigtom have really got me interested in e-fence problems though......I've got some questions.
first, Thunder, if you were able to quiet your studio by unplugging yer....controller(?), doesn't that mean that the problem was in your controller, as it was in bigbob's? and feeding iterference to your power supply through it's cord and the wall outlet? Or, was a bad controller sending interference down the fence wire itself, and from there, through the air to sensitive equipment? even when shut off... .......If the interference was coming from the fence wire itself, shutting it off should have cleared it up...right? I'm confused about the need to unplug.... See. I just don't know anything about e-fencing at all, excetp that they're good for a laugh if you can talk someone into grabbing one....:D ...9000 volts bigbob? I always thought they were low-voltage, 12-24 volt systems.....I dunno..but PLEASE!! Do me a favor and go back to my original post, and tell me if the tick I described there sounds like the tick you heard through your monitors ! ....here again though, I have no fence controllers in my home, and neither do any neighbors who live closer than 100-150 yards away. There are no live fences any closer than that.....How far was your gear from your fence when you had your ticking problem? If a bad controller somewhere is sending a "tick" through a turned off section of fencing, near my trailer, could I walk around with my voltmeter, or maybe a small radio, touch the antena to the fence, and maybe locate a problem?
Is what you guys are describing a possibility in my situation?... I'm just about as certain that I can be that I haven't used any bad cables, ( I tried 6 different cables) when I was testing for this %^$# ticking......C'MON you farm boys can fix ANathing!! Right? Please try to fix my dusty and confused mind. It's beginning to hurt....
Z
 
First off, funny story....I knew a woman who could grab an electric fence and it didn't hurt her at all. It was the weirdest thing ever. One day, she was show me and some other folks how she could do it and as she grabbed it, nothing happened. She was still holding it and a cat walked up and did the, "I love you and you are mine" rub against her leg. I heard a zap and they both got shocked. The cat was never the same.....there is my bit of nonsense for the thread!


I don't remember why I unplugged it. I think that when I shut it off, I still heard the click so I just got pissed and unplugged it. I am not sure if our controller didn't totally shut off with the switch or what. The thing is, if there is someone 2 miles down the road that has an e-fence, it could affect you. Because if their fence is somehow connected (not directly) to a fence that comes near you, that current could carry. Though, that is highly unlikely. We had an electric fence that was on the south end of our property. There was a limb or something that had fallen on it and was touching the regular barbed wire fence. There was not enough electricity to shock you when touching it. But you could hear the ticks where the wire was connected to the fence posts.


I am certain that from the sounds of your problem, it is an electric fence. Just have to figure out where and why.
 
You have to understand how an E-fence works. Coming from the controller there is a positive poll and a negative poll. The N poll is connected to a ground rod driven in to the ground( the deeper the better). The P pole is connected to the fence. The controller sends a pulse about 1.5 seconds long through the P pole down the fence. Now when you or your friend with the cat or a 2000 pound bull (hence the 9000v) touches the fence the pulse runs through you, to the ground you are standing on and back to the grounding rod completing the circut and shocking you.

Anything that gets caught in that loop can be affected. I've heard this called stray voltage and is cause by faulty grounds.

I also know of an instance where the electric was shut off in a 2 mile radius of a dairy farm and they still stray voltage that could be read on a voltage meeter connected to a water line.

Electric can do strange things.

In the case with the women and the cat, The women wasn't being grounded ( rubber sole shoes maybe) but the cat was. So when the cat touched the women the loop was completed and both got shocked.
 
You have to understand how an E-fence works. Coming from the controller there is a positive poll and a negative poll. The N poll is connected to a ground rod driven in to the ground( the deeper the better). The P pole is connected to the fence. The controller sends a pulse about 1.5 seconds long through the P pole down the fence. Now when you or your friend with the cat or a 2000 pound bull (hence the 9000v) touches the fence the pulse runs through you, to the ground you are standing on and back to the grounding rod completing the circut and shocking you.

Anything that gets caught in that loop can be affected. I've heard this called stray voltage and is cause by faulty grounds.

I also know of an instance where the electric was shut off in a 2 mile radius of a dairy farm and they still stray voltage that could be read on a voltage meeter connected to a water line.

Electric can do strange things.

In the case with the women and the cat, The women wasn't being grounded ( rubber sole shoes maybe) but the cat was. So when the cat touched the women the loop was completed and both got shocked.

I thought that it had to do with her shoes too. But I saw her do it with different kinds of shoes on. It was freaky
 
2 MILES !!!! DAAaaam...I'm screwed....There must be 10 miles of metal fencing in a 2 mile radius from my dump.....OK. Guess that pretty much leads me back to shielding my instruments, and seeing what happens....Even if I find a nearby fence with a problem and get it fixed, sounds like there could be a new problem every time there's another storm....... I've GOT IT !! I'LL JUST WRITE AND RECORD ALL MY MUSIC AT 55 BPM !!!! .......that won't work. Well, guess I'll just take it one step at a time. See if I can make it better than it is...
Thanks for the help gentamens. Appreciate it.
Z
 
The 2 mile radius was an extreme case. Just talk to the owners of the fences close to you and ask if they could unplug their controllers for 10 minutes or so to see if that makes any difference or not.

Most of us in the country only shoot people who aggravate us. :D:D:D
 
Oh yea. People out here are great. Pull in a driveway, you can't leave without having a meal. Gonna be tough to narrow it down though. There's a LOtta fencing, a lot of 40 acre lots, some of them subdivided with metal fencing. Everybody just hooks up their fence to their neighbor's at the corner post, so they're all connected...... Thinkin' about it, I don't remember anybody even having an e-fence... I'm sure some of the big ranches do, for, as you said, bulls, but the closest one of those Is 2 miles away......Still trying to figure out a way to test fencing so I don't have to bother a lot of people.....hmmm.

Z
 
im probobly gonna get shot for this (cos you already tried it).. but why not ask the neybs if you can plug one of the offending amps into their home electrics and see if it does the same there... start at the closest ???

very interesting thread this btw
 

Hey KaKed !! Glad you're finding this interesting as I slowly cave my forehead in by banging it on my desk....:),oh, and by the way, Hooray, indeed, for boobies!!
So here's that. The property I bought (outright, no mortgage :D:D:D:D:D) has two old trailers on it, and the place was set up to rent out both of them, so they each have their own power supply and meter, which feed off of a single line to the pole. Of course I did try both of these locations before I bothered all of you guys, and both exhibited an equal 'tick". My closest neighbor is a guy who is also a musician, and probably even owns an amp, but he's NEver home. I haven't seen him in three months. When I do, I'm gonna tackle 'im, and then just start screaming at him. TURN YER FRIGGIN AMP ON!!! TURN IT ON!! TURN IT ON!!.. Till then, my only close by option is a real sweet , very religeous, little old lady with a heart condition. I just can't bring myself to ask her if I can come over and plug in my Strat....:eek: All my other neighbors are more than 200 yards away...I suppose I could go bug 1 or 2 of them...It's just that at that distance, I gotta wonder whether the test would be a viable one. Judging by what bigtom and thunder have said, they're liable to have a 'ticks", all their own, from different sources. I've gotta admit, I'm starting to lose any hopes here of eliminating my "tick", and will now be happy if I can just minimize it.....I'll be back later. I'm gonna go shoot the golf ball, just for the hell of it.
Z
 
Pick up a cheap battery operated amplifier, grab one of your fender mustangs and drive down your road looking for the strongest signal - it should be pretty obvious if you are heading away from it when the signal weakens considerably....... plug some decent studio isolating headphones into the amp if you want to shut out any other noises

Rod
 

ok so what is it with you Thunder? Are you trying to get paid or what?...:D
Wayta go man!! That's freakin EXcellent !! I just read through a couple of links there, and it's ALL there ! "Everything You Ever Wished You Didn't Need to Know about Electric Fences." Now we're getting somewhere !! I'm very pleased to know that my idea of driving around with a portable radio is NOt crazy, (I believe that KaKed suggested that, but that was when we were discussing the RAdar....I think.... KaKed will let me know if I'm wrong) One of the links there, a guy says you can use an AM, (not FM) radio with a metal anteny to find shorts in an e-fence, by driving around with it turned on ! Better still, "use a radio that plays air-traffic control freqs" I'm goin to the Shack tomorow. Gonna get me one, and then I'm gonna drive around until it freqs out. Acording to the article, Thunder33 and bigtom were right on the money. "These shorts can often cause problems a mile away.", and are often identified by.....wait for it......youuu GUESSED IT !!
AAAAA "TICKING" SOUND !! ......so I guess......well....yea,..I guess there was no need to pump sixteen 30.06 hollowpoints into the golf ball...that was.... uncalled for........I feel.......... aaaah.....bad about that.....
no..really...I do.........:)
Nice goin' Thunder. I'm back on the trail.
Z
 
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