The New Tone Thread

[Greg_L]

great strat tones greg. Very nice rythym guitar playing too man. Nothing about it sucked.
Anyone who thinks mex fenders don't have tone should check this out.

Thanks jimistone. I admittedly don't know great Strat tone from crap Strat tone, I only know what I like for me. I don't think I've ever met a Strat that sounds as good as mine, for me. High dollar USA and even vintage Strats all sound too thin and screechy whenever I try them out. I hate to even think about it. They give me chills like nails on a chalkboard. Something about mine doesn't do that to me.

Greg, I just looked up Dokken... shudder. I need to get this fucking song finished before I end up perming my hair and snorting coke. Its the last one left out of an older more metal sounding set of tracks that I really want to finish - hopefully some grungier vocals will at least drag it into the early 90s.

I've just listened to both your clips. I thought the strat sounded great, particularly on the more trebbly pickups, was OK on neck settings when you were playing single notes but tended to get a bit mushy when you were strumming hard, but that's not surprising, I only use a neck pickup for lead or completely spanky cleans.

The fat pig sounded great when you were on single notes but tended to get a bit too thick I found when you were strumming. That's a really hot pickup for a single coil isn't it? That's a tiny nit-pick though - it didn't actually sound bad at all.

I bet the two guitars would sound great in a surf mix, strat doing rhythm and fat pig doing leads.

Thanks J. One of the things I usually do when I "go clean" is I try to generally set things up for clean single notes and then things get dirtier when I dig in. I like the way it works on the Strat's bridge pickup, but the others are just meh to me. The Hallmark's Fat Pig is fairly hot for a single coil, I think it measures around 12.5k, so it definitely pushes harder than the Strat pickups.

Hey, if its good enough for James Hetfield, why not Minerman?

Lol. Man, we're using James Hetfield as some sort of standard-bearer now?

 

[JDOD]

Lol. Man, we're using James Hetfield as some sort of standard-bearer now?

LOL, fair point - he hasn't had a good tone since 1986... but that's where Minerman exists isn't it?

 

[Greg_L]

LOL, fair point - he hasn't had a good tone since 1986... but that's where Minerman exists isn't it?

 

[minerman]

Here's something I worked on a little today...I just couldn't get along with the lower gain tubes in the amp, so I stuck the originals back in, IMO it just neutered the amp too much...I did give it a fair shot, trying a low-gain tube in each position (V1-V4), & I tried 2 low-gain tubes in 2 positions (V1 & V2, V1 & V3, etc) until I'd pretty much gave every position/tube a shot with 'em, but in the end, again, it just neutered my little amp too much, so I put the stock tubes back in, & buttoned it back up...The one position I didn't try a low-gain tube is V5, I'm assuming it's the phase inverter slot, but don't know for sure...I may try another tube there tomorrow, maybe...

And yes, I am a gain-head from way back, even though I've always hated Metallica (even their early stuff before their "Black" album), & still do to this day...
I'm still living in 1986, remember???

1986... but that's where Minerman exists isn't it?

Anyway, here's some low-ish volume clips in a mix...

I know these guitars have a lot more gain than the original, not trying to sound like the original, just trying to do a cover, sound like me, & not sound like total shit in the process...Not sure if me not sounding like shit is even possible, but I'm gonna give it a shot...

Signal chain:
SG > EVH LBX > Greenback > i5 (there is some 'verb on these guitars, sent to a couple 'verb tracks, but no eq or anything else)

The guitars are panned out like 85 L/R...

4w/low power mode
Red channel

Resonance:..............2
Gain:.......................2.5
Bass:......................6
Middle:....................4
Treble:....................7
Volume:..................2
Presence:................2

Dr. Love Cover

Lemme know what you guys think...

 

[Greg_L]

That's pretty good miner. I have trouble with the guitars having that much gain for this song, but admittedly I'm very very used to the original. What you got don't sound bad though. Very gainy, but not fizzy. Kind of flat, but that's to be expected with little amp, little volume. The reverb helps.

The reverb on the guitars sounds a little tubby though. If it were me I'd try to match the guitar reverb to the drums better.

And wtf man, where's Ace's solo?

 

[minerman]

That's pretty good miner. I have trouble with the guitars having that much gain for this song, but admittedly I'm very very used to the original. What you got don't sound bad though. Very gainy, but not fizzy. Kind of flat, but that's to be expected with little amp, little volume. The reverb helps.

Thanks Greg!!! I know a people get used to hearing something a certain way, & it's burned into their head...I'm the same way dude...I'm gonna re-record these tracks in a day or two with some proper volume, & could lower the gain while pushing the output section a little harder...

Good to hear you say they're not fizzy...On the "flat" thing, I might bring a little more high-end with the presence knob, only thing that's where the fizz comes from with this amp, so I'll have to be pretty easy with it...

The reverb on the guitars sounds a little tubby though. If it were me I'd try to match the guitar reverb to the drums better.

The guitars are running through the same reverbs the drums are, (a medium sized room & a fairly large plate, convolution reverbs), the only thing different on the drums is another reverb that's built-into Superior...

As far as the "tubby" thing, something I've been considering is to send the guitars to an empty track with an eq on it, then send from that track to the verbs, so I can control what goes into the reverbs from the guitars, without messing with the reverb on the drums...

And wtf man, where's Ace's solo?

Just haven't gotten around to recording that yet man, maybe tomorrow...

FWIW, I started this Saturday or Sunday & I'm way ahead of where I'd usually be just because of the drum programming...I'm starting to be able to hammer out the tempo map & drum programming pretty quickly compared to how long it took not too long ago...I tempo-mapped this whole song using Peter Criss' drums as a guide, because if I don't do that, it throws everything out of whack...On an original I won't have to be so meticulous because the tempo map won't have to be so precise, & it wouldn't get out of whack like the cover tunes I'm doing from those Rock Band multi-tracks...

Thanks again & gimme a few minutes to upload/post this without the 'verb I mentioned...

 

[Greg_L]

Thanks Greg!!! I know a people get used to hearing something a certain way, & it's burned into their head...I'm the same way dude...I'm gonna re-record these tracks in a day or two with some proper volume, & could lower the gain while pushing the output section a little harder...

Good to hear you say they're not fizzy...On the "flat" thing, I might bring a little more high-end with the presence knob, only thing that's where the fizz comes from with this amp, so I'll have to be pretty easy with it...

Since that amp can't not have tons of gain, what about rolling back the guitar vol? Does that amp react well to that? Does your SG preserve the highs when rolling off?

As far as the "tubby" thing, something I've been considering is to send the guitars to an empty track with an eq on it, then send from that track to the verbs, so I can control what goes into the reverbs from the guitars, without messing with the reverb on the drums...
.

That sounds like a neat idea. Or just EQ it after the reverb.

 

[minerman]

Ok, here's the exact same thing except I muted a reverb that's built into Superior...Here are the settings again just so everyone is on the same page...

Signal chain:
SG > EVH LBX > Greenback > i5 (there is some 'verb on these guitars, sent to a couple 'verb tracks, but no eq or anything else)

The guitars are panned out like 85 L/R...

4w/low power mode
Red channel

Resonance:..............2
Gain:.......................2.5
Bass:......................6
Middle:....................4
Treble:....................7
Volume:..................2
Presence:................2

Dr. Love's Second Opinion

Lemme know if you think the reverb sounds more cohesive...

 

[minerman]

Since that amp can't not have tons of gain, what about rolling back the guitar vol? Does that amp react well to that? Does your SG preserve the highs when rolling off?

Rolling back the guitar's volume does what's expected, it cleans up, & the amp does react well to it IMO...The SG doesn't cut the high end too much until I hit a certain level, around 5 or so, but that's expected behavior to me...

That sounds like a neat idea. Or just EQ it after the reverb.

The reason I mentioned doing the extra track is because both reverbs have built-in eq, but I don't wanna mess with the drums...Using the extra track with an eq would only affect the guitars...

 

[JDOD]

Miner, tone sounds really good, hi gain but with without turning into a mess, its all really tight, well played and well recorded.
Would like to hear you do some palm muted chugging with that tone - bet it would sound good.

I'm not familiar with the original so I don't know if its there, but you start doing a beat on a crash at the end and it doesn't sound right, it sounds way too big, like you're just whacking a ride really hard.

 

[rayc]

I do prefer the Mosrite copy Greg but the strat s is pretty cool - I'd like to think of Buddy Holly getting that tone live.

 

[Greg_L]

Ok, here's the exact same thing except I muted a reverb that's built into Superior...Here are the settings again just so everyone is on the same page...

Signal chain:
SG > EVH LBX > Greenback > i5 (there is some 'verb on these guitars, sent to a couple 'verb tracks, but no eq or anything else)

The guitars are panned out like 85 L/R...

4w/low power mode
Red channel

Resonance:..............2
Gain:.......................2.5
Bass:......................6
Middle:....................4
Treble:....................7
Volume:..................2
Presence:................2

Dr. Love's Second Opinion

Lemme know if you think the reverb sounds more cohesive...

I do think that's better. Get the bass up a little more. Now do that lead.

---------- Update ----------

I do prefer the Mosrite copy Greg but the strat s is pretty cool - I'd like to think of Buddy Holly getting that tone live.

Ha thanks Ray. Buddy Holly was the best Strat user ever.

Bam, yeah I said it.

 

[minerman]

Miner, tone sounds really good, hi gain but with without turning into a mess, its all really tight, well played and well recorded.
Would like to hear you do some palm muted chugging with that tone - bet it would sound good.

I'm not familiar with the original so I don't know if its there, but you start doing a beat on a crash at the end and it doesn't sound right, it sounds way too big, like you're just whacking a ride really hard.

Thanks Jdude, I like this little amp for what it is...

On the cymbal, that's just how the drummer played that song man, I might need to mess with the levels of that particular cymbal (turn that articulation down a little), but again, that's pretty much how the drummer played that song...

 

[JDOD]

I just tried sticking my delay in the loop for the first time. Can't believe I'd never tried it before, suppose I just couldn't convince myself it would make that much of a difference.

Big improvement on the lead tone when blatantly wanking yourself silly.

 

[liv_rong]

I just tried sticking my delay in the loop for the first time. Can't believe I'd never tried it before, suppose I just couldn't convince myself it would make that much of a difference.

Big improvement on the lead tone when blatantly wanking yourself silly.

Did you see that pic I posted of my amp settings a few pages back? I took a pic after you posted yours.

 

[liv_rong]

Ok, here's the exact same thing except I muted a reverb that's built into Superior...Here are the settings again just so everyone is on the same page...

Signal chain:
SG > EVH LBX > Greenback > i5 (there is some 'verb on these guitars, sent to a couple 'verb tracks, but no eq or anything else)

The guitars are panned out like 85 L/R...

4w/low power mode
Red channel

Resonance:..............2
Gain:.......................2.5
Bass:......................6
Middle:....................4
Treble:....................7
Volume:..................2
Presence:................2

Dr. Love's Second Opinion

Lemme know if you think the reverb sounds more cohesive...

This sounds good man! First one did too but the reverb on that snare wasnt working for me, the rest of the kit though was ok, just that snare I thought could have been better. Guitar wise though, man, I wish I could get tones like that.

 

[rayc]

The Ramones Mono remix...
I just listened to a FLAC version of Disc 1 of the 40th Anniv Deluxe release. The stereo sounds really cool and powerful but the mono mix is MUCH more in my face powerful. this could be through all sorts of trickery but it does sound a) logical and b) really good on 1st listen.

The flac version I listened to sounds MUCH MUCH MUCH better and louder than this clip.

 

[JDOD]

Did you see that pic I posted of my amp settings a few pages back? I took a pic after you posted yours.

Yeah I did. Weirdly we seem to be getting quite similar tones with massively different amp settings. We've both got V30 speakers too haven't we?

 

[liv_rong]

Yeah I did. Weirdly we seem to be getting quite similar tones with massively different amp settings. We've both got V30 speakers too haven't we?

Yes in my Orange cab.

 

[jimistone]

miner....
That's a really good guitar sound. It's higher gain than the orioriginal recording, but it sounds very good. I think you're getting great results out of that new amplifier.

Rock on man!