The New Tone Thread

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jimistone said:
greg...
I like the first gear clip the best. I will say this though. I have been listening to the original a few times to familiarize myself with it. On the original recording the 3 chords after the palm muted "chunka chunka" part has a very aggressive nasty brutal sound to it that none of the clips really nail. You may have to have a guitar equipped with those super hot "only good for metal" pickups to get that. Or, it my have had some kind of enhancement processing by the mix engineer in the studio. Whatever the case, it sounds bad ass.
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Thanks man. I'm not really trying to nail the Kill em All tone as it's not a very good tone to me. I hate it, actually. I mean that album is a classic and all that, but I'd never want to use that kind of tone for anything. I just wanted to get some stuff recorded with this amp while I still have it. I don't think Metallica used any metal-specific gear though. That stuff didn't really exist at that time. From what I've heard about that album, James Hetfield used a Flying V and a heavily modded JCM 800 for his tracks. But I don't know.
JDOD said:
Greg,

Listened to them on my AKG reference cans now. The first and the third sound best - they all sound thick and heavy though, they sound like they're fucking loud! There seems to be a little bit of something nasty and buzzy creeping into the 2nd one - dunno why its not there in the 3rd (unless its just burried). Will be interesting to see what you can do when you really get this amp dialed in.

Anyway, something Bob said interested me - sounds like the mic is too close to the cap. I haven't adjusted my mic placement in ages - but I'm pretty pleased with the result of going about an 2cm further out from the cap.

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JDOD said:
Cheers, Jimi - I noticed the same thing myself and I made a couple of adjustments based on what Bob said. I like the result but doesn't sound huge like Greg's clips.

EDIT: I've recorded some adlib stuff with my normal tone but using the altered mic placement that Bob suggested yesterday.

There's a slightly buzziness around the edges but I think that would be absorbed pretty quickly in a mix.

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I think both of those are even more boxy than before. They sound like they're coming from a small radio speaker. No punch. They're missing that 3D quality of a speaker moving air, to me. There's no fuzz, which is good, but it's like all mids. I don't know. Moving the mic around is always good to find the sweet spot, but I think whatever adjustment you made didn't do you any favors IMO. Maybe you've just reached the limits of that amp.
 
Lt. Bob said:
that thing has tons of 'bonk to it ..... I like it!!!
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Lol. yeah it does have that bonk. It's funny how fans of the Marshall sound always look for that bonk. The guy that owns this amp is always looking for that sound, but he just wouldn't step up and just get a Marshall. He's had Mesas and Diamonds and Oranges and he's never happy because they don't sound like Marshalls. I've been bugging him for years to just get a Marshall, any damn Marshall, but I think he fears change. He's worried about their relative lack of gain. Well he finally got something that is essentially just a modded Marshall clone, and there it is. The sound he wants. High gain Marshall sound. And bonk!
 
liv_rong said:
So this is not the thing you guys are doing but maybe you have some thoughts on this clean tone. I really like it, but it could use some work so I thought Id seek your expert opinions. Guitar is an Epi Dot Studio and Im playing through a HoF reverb and a Joyo delay in the loop of my Blackstar ht studio 20 head. Mic is an ES-57 placed relatively close to the center of a V30(as per previous Gerg advice regarding the darkness of my amp) in an Orange 1x12 cab placed on axis about 1/4" off the grill. The mix of this is the track doubled and panned with some compression.
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Sounds good to me -- I think the low mids (approx 100-200 hz) would probably need to come down quite a bit in a mix or it would get muddy - but that's easy enough with a little HPF, and I like the sound by itself.
 
Greg_L said:
Gibson Les Paul Traditional - Burstbucker 3 bridge pickup
Splawn Quick Rod - 100 watt mode
All EQs at 12:00
Gain 12:00
Master vol 12:00
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion Greenbacks
Shure SM 57 on axis, on grill, just outside dustcap
No EQ or FX in DAW

SAD Splawn 1st gear

SAD Splawn 2nd Gear

SAD Splawn 3rd Gear

And a better kind of seeking and destroying....The Stooges "Search and Destroy"
Happy Splawn 1st Gear
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I like 1st gear the best -- weird how the highs sort of go away in second gear, but then come back in third gear - at least on my sytem. They all sound good -- I don't think I've ever played through one of those amps


JDOD - I'm scrollin and scrollin, but I can't seem to find your clips and now I gotta go to work. Hopefully I can catch back up this evening
 
Greg_L said:
I think both of those are even more boxy than before. They sound like they're coming from a small radio speaker. No punch. They're missing that 3D quality of a speaker moving air, to me. There's no fuzz, which is good, but it's like all mids. I don't know. Moving the mic around is always good to find the sweet spot, but I think whatever adjustment you made didn't do you any favors IMO. Maybe you've just reached the limits of that amp.
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Surprised you think that - I think these two sounds pretty tidy.
 
JDOD said:
No worries, its good to have you opinion as I only seem to be able to get close to what I hear in my head but can't quite nail it.

This is moving the mic back closer to the centre and it sounds thicker but the harshness comes back into it.
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That's a little better to me. I'm not hearing harshness. I'm hearing boxiness. I really think you're fighting that cab. These are just my own opinions, but I brought this clip into Reaper and ran it through some EQ just by itself. It confirmed to me what I already hear. The mids are boxy and way too prominent. The as-is EQ graph is basically a camel hump. The low end is mild, the mids are raging, and the top end falls off a cliff. Just a little scoop around 500 really cleaned it up a lot. It sounded more balanced. It unclouded some highs and lows. It also lacks air. A high shelf boost really brought a lot of life into it. With these little tweaks it sounded clear and present without fizzy harshness but it still sounded like the tone you captured, just better to me. The one thing I couldn't coax out of it was a good powerful but tight bottom end. It just isn't there. All of this seems like a cab problem to me. I think a big speaker in a little box just can't not sound boxy.
 
Greg_L said:
That's a little better to me. I'm not hearing harshness. I'm hearing boxiness. I really think you're fighting that cab. These are just my own opinions, but I brought this clip into Reaper and ran it through some EQ just by itself. It confirmed to me what I already hear. The mids are boxy and way too prominent. The as-is EQ graph is basically a camel hump. The low end is mild, the mids are raging, and the top end falls off a cliff. Just a little scoop around 500 really cleaned it up a lot. It sounded more balanced. It unclouded some highs and lows. It also lacks air. A high shelf boost really brought a lot of life into it. With these little tweaks it sounded clear and present without fizzy harshness but it still sounded like the tone you captured, just better to me. The one thing I couldn't coax out of it was a good powerful but tight bottom end. It just isn't there. All of this seems like a cab problem to me. I think a big speaker in a little box just can't not sound boxy.
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Yeah, I was previously scooping at around 530 - just a little blip to try and remove the "boxy frequency"

I couldn't actually give it much more high end or take away much more mid on the amp (unless I want it to have no bite at all).

I think I have a 5K+ high shelf (for air) with a ~500 2-3db cut saved in ReaEQ actually. I think its even called "Greg's EQ" or maybe even "Bob's EQ"

Check this out:
EQ2.webp
 
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Lol. Damn. Fucking Blackstars. They are some dark murky motherfuckers. If I did any of my EQs like that it would literally break wine glasses all over the city. Does it have a presence control? What if you bring up the bass, leave the mids alone, and add in more presence?
 
that's one thing I loved about the old 100 watt Marshall I had, and miss when using modern amps...a presence control!
 
Nah, no presence.

I'm away surfing for the weekend now till Sunday. But I'll have a go at giving it a bit more bottom on Sunday.

Belive it or not I'm surfing in the Jesus Surf Classic this weekend.
 
jimistone said:
what is the Jesus surf classic?
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A surf contest which is being run by Christian Surfers UK.

I'm not religious and neither are my friends, but to be fair to them CSUK put a good event on and everyone has a good weekend.
 
JDOD said:
OK, so here's 4 versions of seek and destroy. All have the SD1 in front of them.

One is with the OCD as the drive. The others are using the amp but I've bumped the mids up slightly more than where I normally have them which has actually just introduced a minging midrange frequency.
One clip is using my amp at its normal preamp volume and gain settings.
One is with all volume and gain on full - you'll hear which one...

Then I dualed the OCD and the normal volume clip for shits and giggles.

View attachment 97907
View attachment 97908
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View attachment 97905

I haven't played S&D in a while as you can probably tell!
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SAD Full - That is definitely really midrangey, but I actually like the way it breaks up. That sounds like an amp whose transformer, speaker, and power section are at meltdown, which I actually like. But that midrange sounds odd. I think there is use for that tone though, in the right situation.

SAD OCD - That midrange is there again. The saturation sounds fine, but that boxy quality is there in force. I like the attack, although the palm mutes seem to want more gain so they really chug.

SAD Dual - I'm always a fan of doubled and panned guitars.

SAD Normal - I think this one sounds best. The mids are under control, it has a good attack, enough saturation for the palm mutes, and still has some attitude. Is this where it was set when you took that pic of the control panel? This sounds like the amp's happy place.
 
Yeah, that's my usual amp settings. Gonna go a few more experiments with it on Sunday.
 
Here's a Seek and Destroy clip with the JCM 800.

For me, I like this better than the Splawn clips. But admittedly I'm just a sucker for this amp's sound. I like the tighter brighter grind in this amp.

So what I did was set it the same as the Splawn. All EQ controls at noon. Same mic, speaker, mic position. Nothing moved from the last clips. The only difference is the amp. The 800 doesn't have anywhere near the gain the Splawn has, so I dimed the gain and pushed the front end with a Tube Screamer set as a clean boost just to get it in the ballpark.

Gibson Les Paul Traditional - Burstbucker 3 bridge pickup
Marshall JCM 800 2203
All EQ and presence at 12:00
Preamp vol - 10
Master vol - 5
Tube Screamer clean boost
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion Greenbacks
Shure SM57 on axis, on grill, just outside dustcap

SAD JCM800

Note - this was WAY louder than the Splawn at the same master vol settings. Goddamn this amp is loud.
No EQ or FX in DAW
 
Greg_L said:
Here's a Seek and Destroy clip with the JCM 800.

For me, I like this better than the Splawn clips. But admittedly I'm just a sucker for this amp's sound. I like the tighter brighter grind in this amp.

So what I did was set it the same as the Splawn. All EQ controls at noon. Same mic, speaker, mic position. Nothing moved from the last clips. The only difference is the amp. The 800 doesn't have anywhere near the gain the Splawn has, so I dimed the gain and pushed the front end with a Tube Screamer set as a clean boost just to get it in the ballpark.

Gibson Les Paul Traditional - Burstbucker 3 bridge pickup
Marshall JCM 800 2203
All EQ and presence at 12:00
Preamp vol - 10
Master vol - 5
Tube Screamer clean boost
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion Greenbacks
Shure SM57 on axis, on grill, just outside dustcap

SAD JCM800

Note - this was WAY louder than the Splawn at the same master vol settings. Goddamn this amp is loud.
No EQ or FX in DAW
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Sounds just a little brighter to me in the top end, but it's pretty similar dude...You're killin' me with all these big amps, my little 15w is a good amp, but it don't got EL34's, which I miss terribly, & can't do a fuckin' thing about right now...

I'm still looking at options so I'd be able to get loud again...There's something I'm waiting on that will eventually get me outta here, but dunno how long it's gonna be before that happens...But when it does, I won't have to worry about pissing the neighbors off, ever, even at 2-3 in the morning....Just trying to be patient until that happens, but you're killin' me dude....:)
 
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